Spiritual Millennialism is not with Satan shut up

[robert derrick]

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Many times the answer to doctrinal dispute is right in front of us, and is completely overlooked: Rev 20 cannot be speaking of a solely spiritual millennialism for Christ over His church today on earth, because Satan is not now shut up. This would mean he is not tempting any man today to sin, nor do we need to resist him at this time.

Those who agree with a spiritual millennialism only, and reject Christ's earthly millennial reign, make a great error by trying to say that Satan is therefore now shut up in the pit, and cannot tempt anyone on the earth.

Satan is not now shut up, because the saints are still tempted like Jesus was, and must therefore endure and overcome such temptation, as Jesus did.

Satan is not now shut up, because we are called upon to resist him by humbling ourselves to God.

Since Satan is not now shut up, then the millennial reign of Christ spoken of in Rev 20, cannot be spiritually fulfilled now on earth.

The millennial reign of Christ in Rev 20 must be His earthly kingdom afer His return, which is the only time of this earth, that Satan is shut up in the pit, and is not able to tempt any person on earth to sin.

 

[robert derrick]

Those who say Satan is shut up to them, are saying they are no more tempted to sin, and so are therefore arrived, and the resurrection is past, and they are perfected in spirit, mind, and 'spiritual' body in heavenly places.

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

They claim a life on earth, that Jesus never had, who was continually tempted in all points like us, which included on the cross to revile them that were reviling Him, to come down off the cross.

There are certain delusional Christians, that claim to have already recieved their resurrected spiritual bodies, while seated in heavenly places, so that they can no more sin against God.

That is how they claim the first resurrection is past and done, and that Satan is shut up to them, so that they are in the only possible millennial reign of Christ on earth.

Their so-called resurrected spiritual bodies may not be sinning, but their old forlorn mortal bodies on earth sure are.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

They say their 'spirit body' in heavenly places has no pleasure in sinning anymore, while their hapless mortal bodies still do on earth.

 

[jeffweeder]

Who believes what you are alleging?
As far as I know nobody on this forum believes all this garbage.

 

[Marty fox]

Who believes what you are alleging?
As far as I know nobody on this forum believes all this garbage.

Yeah same here I have no idea who believes what is posted here

 

[Randy Kluth]

Those who agree with a spiritual millennialism only, and reject Christ's earthly millennial reign, make a great error by trying to say that Satan is therefore now shut up for the saints on the earth.

Satan is not now shut up, because the saints are still tempted like Jesus was, and must therefore endure and overcome such temptation, as Jesus did.

Satan is not now shut up, because we are called upon to resist him by humbling ourselves to God.

Since Satan is not now shut up, then the millennial reign of Christ cannot be now on earth, when Satan will be shut up for a thousand years.

Yea, it amazes me that the Church has for many centuries held to the allegorization used by Origen and Augustine. Spiritualizing the Millennium doesn't make sense to me. And your argument is a good one.

 

[jeffweeder]

Yeah same here I have no idea who believes what is posted here

Perhaps it's ANOTHER deplorable case of mistaken identity.

 

[Marty fox]

Yea, it amazes me that the Church has for many centuries held to the allegorization used by Origen and Augustine. Spiritualizing the Millennium doesn't make sense to me. And your argument is a good one.

Randy I know you better than this surly you can’t actually believe that this is a good argument especially in post number two?

I’m sure that you don’t believe that amils think that we can’t be tempted or that we think that we are already in our new resurrected bodies?

 

[WPM]

Yea, it amazes me that the Church has for many centuries held to the allegorization used by Origen and Augustine. Spiritualizing the Millennium doesn't make sense to me. And your argument is a good one.

It didn't to the Pharisees either, and look what happened. Your Jewish hope is misplaced. It is a figment of your imagination.

 

[WPM]

Perhaps it's ANOTHER deplorable case of mistaken identity.

Because Premills cannot rebut authentic Amil they have to invent strawman beliefs that they can shoot at.

I take this as a commendation of Amil here.

 

[robert derrick]

Those who write their own Symbol Man's Bible, take Scripture anyway they want.

No small thing then, that they also take anything anyone writes, anyway they want.

It's the typical manner of them that refuse to be corrected, to sidestep a correction of their teaching, and not even try to respond to it.

Anyone believing that Rev 20 is speaking of Christ's reign over His people today on earth, must also believe that Satan is shut up in the bottomless pit today.

Which means Satan cannot be tempting any person on earth to sin today.

Satan being shut up for thousand years, is the hallmark of millennialism, where we are told he will not be able to resist God, nor tempt man to sin against God on earth, while the resurrected God is reigning over all the earth, and the people inhabiting it.

That is not at all being fulfilled today, and so Rev 20 cannot at all be speaking of today.

Simple.

 

[robert derrick]

Who believes what you are alleging?
As far as I know nobody on this forum believes all this garbage.

You believe the first post, if you believe Rev 20 refers to Christ's spiritual reign over His church today. You must also believe Satan is shut up in the bottomless pit today, and cannot resist God by tempting any person on earth to sin.

If you are referring to the 2nd post, and so avoiding the first, then be glad you don't believe the more delusional OSAS doctrine of having already recieved our spiritual bodies in heavenly places.

Yeah same here I have no idea who believes what is posted here

Dittos you.

I find it fascinating to see how people can avoid being corrected by many tactics.

One of them is to seemingly care more about who believes something, rather than about what is being corrected.

I personally don't care about who teaches something, when something new is taught to me, but only about whether it is true or not.

Afterall, I don't pretend to think I know all the teachings ever taught for doctrine of Christ.

And having been on this sight for awhile, I didn't realize I didn't know the half of everything being taught by some Christians.

The things that are true, I'm thankful for being instructed, and sometimes being corrected.

And the errors, I am even thankful for, since it causes us to be more perfect in the knowledge of Scripture, in order to rightly refute it.

It looks like some people only care about what they already believe, and only want to hear that repeated to them.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Randy I know you better than this surly you can’t actually believe that this is a good argument especially in post number two?

I’m sure that you don’t believe that amils think that we can’t be tempted or that we think that we are already in our new resurrected bodies?

No, I think the Church has been Amil for many centuries, and obviously would argue that Christians go through what they go through. Some of the finest Christians were Amil, so I think their position on eschatology, Premil or Amil, doesn't make much difference in the way we see spiritual warfare in this life.

I just don't personally see our spiritual warfare making sense in the light of Satan being bound presently. But obviously, this is a semantics issue, and not a matter of heresy. We all believe the same Bible and have the same experience. But what you would define as Satan's binding I would define as Satan's still being on the loose.

When I agree with someone I certainly am not subscribing to all that person may be saying. I would probably agree with you on 90% of the Christian essentials (or higher). We may just word them differently based on how we interpret various Bible statements.

 

[robert derrick]

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

The main difference between the saints of the Old and New Testaments, before the return of the Lord, to establish His earthly reign over all people, is that now we must enter into His spiritual kingdom with much tribulation and temptation and wrath from Satan.

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

During His earthly reign, that will not be the case, for Satan will be shut up in the pit without liberty and power to resist the King, and to tempt His subjects on earth to disobey Him.

During the Lord's reign on earth, all people and nations will be His subjects to rule over, without any hindrance from Satan to believe, love, and obey Him as King and Lord on earth.

 

[No Pre-TB]

When Satan is sealed, the god of this world won’t rule over all the Kingdoms. As Satan showed Christ, all the Kingdoms were and are his. Only at the 7th future trumpet will it be Christ. Christ cannot reign over the world with Satan reigning.

When Satan is sealed, he will not have freedom to roam like a devouring lion seeking its prey 1 Peter 5:8

When Satan is sealed, he will not be able to deceive the nations to battle. WW1 and WW2

Satan still infiltrates the hearts of people Acts 5:3

Satan continuously sows tares amongst the wheat till the harvest Matthew 13:39

Satan still masquerades as a messenger of light per 2 Cor 11:14

If Satan was sealed, would John had written Rev 2:13 ?
Even where Satan's seat is - A place of special wickedness, as if Satan dwelt there. Satan is, as it were, enthroned there. The influence of Satan in producing persecution is what is particularly alluded to, as is apparent from the reference which is immediately made to the case of Antipas, the "faithful martyr."

If Satan is sealed, why did persecutions, flogging, boiled alive, fed to animals, tarred, martyrdom increase for God’s people after Christ ascended?

If Satan is sealed, he would be thrown into the lake of fire with the beast of the sea and the beast of the earth, but he isn’t! They are thrown in and he doesn’t join them till 1k years later.

Rev 19:20
These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

Rev 20:7
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

Rev 20:10
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

[robert derrick]

Randy I know you better than this surly you can’t actually believe that this is a good argument especially in post number two?

In another place, I asked why some people are so fervent about rejecting Christ's earthly reign, so as to accuse others of heresy, to the point of denying the Lord's spiritual reign and kingdom over His saints today.

I.e. not having the kingdom of God within them. I.e. not having recieved Jesus Christ with power to become sons of God.

Post #2, I believe, is the source of it.

The extremist OSAS believers, accuse others of hating grace, and trying to be saved by works alone, if they do not agree with their fanatical from of OSAS.

That form of godliness by dead faith alone, includes not being condemned when sinning with the devil, as well as having already recieved their spiritual bodies in heavenly places, so that their soul and spirit cannot even be tempted to lust and sin against God. (Even though their mortal bodies still do.)

This radical teaching, says that Satan is now shut up to them personally, so that they cannot be tempted to sin spiritually against God. This is the OSAS radical form of Christ's present spiritual reign over His body of saints on earth: They say we are raised into heavenly places, so that Satan cannot touch us anymore forever.

It rejects the necessity of resisting the devil and keeping our hearts guarded, so that he does not touch us with His lust:

We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keeping yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

To say that Rev 20 is Christ's reign over His people today, is to say that Satan is now shut up, cannot tempt, and cannot possibly touch them, who are spiritually seated in heavenly places, while their natural bodies remain on earth.

It completely does away with the necessity of spiritual warfare within our hearts and minds, which is why we are raised up in Christ in order to fight that very fight: The good fight begins spiritually by resisting all thoughts of temptation and fiery darts of the wicked, in order to keep ourselves spiritually pure within the platter and cup of our flesh.

This necessity of spiritual warfare will not be the case, when Satan is indeed shut up during Jesus' earthly reign.

Even as they say they can sin with works of the flesh and not be condemned with the world, so they teach they can lust from the heart, and not be judged as sinning by God.

And so coincidently, the one most fervent about rejecting His earthly reign, and most accusative against them that believe it, has also shown himself to be a zealous OSAS believer.

The pieces simply came together, when correcting something of his teaching, that helped me to realize the most glaring error of it:

All those who reject Christ's earthly kingdom, and say Rev 20 is speaking of His spiritual kingdom in the hearts of His saints on earth now, must also acknowledge they are saying that Satan is now shut up against tempting them to sin.

Simple.

 

[robert derrick]

When Satan is sealed, the god of this world won’t rule over all the Kingdoms. As Satan showed Christ, all the Kingdoms were and are his. Only at the 7th future trumpet will it be Christ. Christ cannot reign over the world with Satan reigning.

Amen. Exactly right!

You know what persuaded me to come to your conclusions, when I was a pre-tribulation advocate?

One simple question that occured to me: how can we meet with the Lord in the air, while Satan is still the prince and the power of the air?

As you say, Christ cannot reign over the earth with all power, and rule over all lands of the earth, while Satan still has power to resist Him and tempt man to do likewise, as the god of this world.

When Satan is sealed, he will not have freedom to roam like a devouring lion seeking its prey 1 Peter 5:8

When Satan is sealed, he will not be able to deceive the nations to battle. WW1 and WW2

Satan still infiltrates the hearts of people Acts 5:3

Satan continuously sows tares amongst the wheat till the harvest Matthew 13:39

Satan still masquerades as a messenger of light per 2 Cor 11:14

If Satan was sealed, would John had written Rev 2:13 ?
Even where Satan's seat is - A place of special wickedness, as if Satan dwelt there. Satan is, as it were, enthroned there. The influence of Satan in producing persecution is what is particularly alluded to, as is apparent from the reference which is immediately made to the case of Antipas, the "faithful martyr."

If Satan is sealed, why did persecutions, flogging, boiled alive, fed to animals, tarred, martyrdom increase for God’s people after Christ ascended?

If Satan is sealed, he would be thrown into the lake of fire with the beast of the sea and the beast of the earth, but he isn’t! They are thrown in and he doesn’t join them till 1k years later.

Because Satan is not now shut up and sealed in the bottomless pit, which is exactly what happens with the reign of Christ over the earth in Rev 20.

To say that Rev 20 refers to now, is to say that Satan is shut up and sealed now.

Simple.

It is the gate-crasher for those who say Rev 20 is not speaking of Christ's earthly reign over all the earth, so as to rule them left from among the smitten nations at Armageddon.

 

[robert derrick]

When Satan is sealed, the god of this world won’t rule over all the Kingdoms. As Satan showed Christ, all the Kingdoms were and are his. Only at the 7th future trumpet will it be Christ. Christ cannot reign over the world with Satan reigning.

When Satan is sealed, he will not have freedom to roam like a devouring lion seeking its prey 1 Peter 5:8

When Satan is sealed, he will not be able to deceive the nations to battle. WW1 and WW2

Satan still infiltrates the hearts of people Acts 5:3

Satan continuously sows tares amongst the wheat till the harvest Matthew 13:39

Satan still masquerades as a messenger of light per 2 Cor 11:14

If Satan was sealed, would John had written Rev 2:13 ?
Even where Satan's seat is - A place of special wickedness, as if Satan dwelt there. Satan is, as it were, enthroned there. The influence of Satan in producing persecution is what is particularly alluded to, as is apparent from the reference which is immediately made to the case of Antipas, the "faithful martyr."

If Satan is sealed, why did persecutions, flogging, boiled alive, fed to animals, tarred, martyrdom increase for God’s people after Christ ascended?

If Satan is sealed, he would be thrown into the lake of fire with the beast of the sea and the beast of the earth, but he isn’t! They are thrown in and he doesn’t join them till 1k years later.

Rev 19:20
These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone

Rev 20:7
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison

Rev 20:10
10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Jesus Christ is Lord and King with all power given unto Him over heaven and earth: that does not mean He is exercising His right as Lord and King over all the earth and people therein.

Why is He slacking in doing so? Mercy and longsuffering willing that any and all men be saved by believing and obeying Him.

Christ has never ruled with dominion over all the earth, and will not do so, until His return as Lord and King over all lords and kings on the earth.

That is why man made in His image of spiritual purity and righteousness is commanded to subdue the earth and have dominion over it, for Him.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

When man sins, he gives that rule and dominion over themselves and the land to Satan.

God cannot command a sinner man to do anything, because he won't obey. Therefore only Adam and the Second Adam could receive that commandment to dominate all lands and creatures of the earth.

Adam recieved it and failed to do it, but the Second Adam will not at His return, and will have Satan bound in the pit, even as Adam should have kept him bound, when his own ambassador came to tempt man to rebel against God, even as Lucifer did.

Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

At this time, Christ's reign and dominion and rule is over much of the earth and homes, with them that love and obey Him, but not all.

And Satan is still as a roaring lion on the earth, and certainly not shut up and bound in the pit, as he only will be once again, when Jesus Christ returns to reign as King according to the commandment of the Father.

 

[Marty fox]

In another place, I asked why some people are so fervent about rejecting Christ's earthly reign, so as to accuse others of heresy, to the point of denying the Lord's spiritual reign and kingdom over His saints today.

I.e. not having the kingdom of God within them. I.e. not having recieved Jesus Christ with power to become sons of God.

Post #2, I believe, is the source of it.

The extremist OSAS believers, accuse others of hating grace, and trying to be saved by works alone, if they do not agree with their fanatical from of OSAS.

That form of godliness by dead faith alone, includes not being condemned when sinning with the devil, as well as having already recieved their spiritual bodies in heavenly places, so that their soul and spirit cannot even be tempted to lust and sin against God. (Even though their mortal bodies still do.)

This radical teaching, says that Satan is now shut up to them personally, so that they cannot be tempted to sin spiritually against God. This is the OSAS radical form of Christ's present spiritual reign over His body of saints on earth: They say we are raised into heavenly places, so that Satan cannot touch us anymore forever.

It rejects the necessity of resisting the devil and keeping our hearts guarded, so that he does not touch us with His lust:

We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keeping yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

To say that Rev 20 is Christ's reign over His people today, is to say that Satan is now shut up, cannot tempt, and cannot possibly touch them, who are spiritually seated in heavenly places, while their natural bodies remain on earth.

It completely does away with the necessity of spiritual warfare within our hearts and minds, which is why we are raised up in Christ in order to fight that very fight: The good fight begins spiritually by resisting all thoughts of temptation and fiery darts of the wicked, in order to keep ourselves spiritually pure within the platter and cup of our flesh.

This necessity of spiritual warfare will not be the case, when Satan is indeed shut up during Jesus' earthly reign.

Even as they say they can sin with works of the flesh and not be condemned with the world, so they teach they can lust from the heart, and not be judged as sinning by God.

And so coincidently, the one most fervent about rejecting His earthly reign, and most accusative against them that believe it, has also shown himself to be a zealous OSAS believer.

The pieces simply came together, when correcting something of his teaching, that helped me to realize the most glaring error of it:

All those who reject Christ's earthly kingdom, and say Rev 20 is speaking of His spiritual kingdom in the hearts of His saints on earth now, must also acknowledge they are saying that Satan is now shut up against tempting them to sin.

Simple.

You obviously do not understand what amils believe that the binding is

The key to the binding is the great chain. We believe that the great chain is the power of the gospel which binds satan from deceiving us. The gospel (if we choose to believe and trust) binds the power of satan over us as the gospel reveals the truth of who Jesus is and what He did on the cross. When Jesus rose from the dead He defeated death spiritually and claimed His power and began to reign thus if we believe we reign over sin with Him.

So yes we can be tempted still but now we now have that power to overcome if we choose

 

[Truth7t7]

During the Lord's reign on earth, all people and nations will be His subjects to rule over, without any hindrance from Satan to believe, love, and obey Him as King and Lord on earth.

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Timtofly]

Perhaps it's ANOTHER deplorable case of mistaken identity.

Do amil often forget who they are?