Spiritual Millennialism is not with Satan shut up

[Spiritual Israelite]

You believe the first post, if you believe Rev 20 refers to Christ's spiritual reign over His church today. You must also believe Satan is shut up in the bottomless pit today, and cannot resist God by tempting any person on earth to sin.

If you are referring to the 2nd post, and so avoiding the first, then be glad you don't believe the more delusional OSAS doctrine of having already recieved our spiritual bodies in heavenly places.


Dittos you.

I find it fascinating to see how people can avoid being corrected by many tactics.

One of them is to seemingly care more about who believes something, rather than about what is being corrected.

I personally don't care about who teaches something, when something new is taught to me, but only about whether it is true or not.

Afterall, I don't pretend to think I know all the teachings ever taught for doctrine of Christ.

And having been on this sight for awhile, I didn't realize I didn't know the half of everything being taught by some Christians.

The things that are true, I'm thankful for being instructed, and sometimes being corrected.

And the errors, I am even thankful for, since it causes us to be more perfect in the knowledge of Scripture, in order to rightly refute it.

It looks like some people only care about what they already believe, and only want to hear that repeated to them.

I find it fascinating that even after it was revealed that you misrepresented Amil in your first couple posts in the thread, that you still can't even acknowledge that. Do you understand that a number of things you said in those posts are not true reflections of what Amils actually believe? Educate yourself so that you stop wasting time making straw man arguments.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do you believe Christ returns at the 2nd advent? If so, then he isn’t here now. He will come back. If he will return and he isn’t here now, what do you call that? What differs if he’s spiritually with us now and hasn’t returned yet?

You apparently missed the point. Where in Revelation 20 does it say anything about Jesus being on the earth after His return?

 

[robert derrick]

Where in Revelation 20 does it teach that Jesus is on earth during some supposed future millennium? Nowhere. You add that unto the inspired text to support your beliefs.

You add symbolism to Scripture, where it is not, so that you reject Scripture saying He will reign on earth with His saints.

The reason for which is a mystery in itself.

 

[robert derrick]

But the bible isn't written to childlike manor it is revealed by the spirit Jesus didn't even teach in childlike manor He spoke in parables

Writing in childlike manner, is not writing words, that any child can understand.

Not all such words of Scripture can be understood by children nor babes in Christ, but the ones that are plainly understood, so that any child can understand their meaning, mean exactly what any child can understand.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Any child can understand, that the resurrected saints will be priests of God, reigning with Christ for a thousand years.

Only 'learned' adults have taught themselves how to make such plain meaning, a symbolized fable only.

Teaching children how to do that, throws them into confusion, as well as mistrust of any other Scripture, that says something so plain.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Every eye on earth shall see Him coming a second time in His majesty. That is not a cunningly devised symbolic fable.

It is only made into one, by them that reject plain meaning of simple words of Scripture, through handling the word of God deceitfully, for their own personal teachings.

And I'm still wondering why some Christians are so ardently against Christ reigning on earth.

Afterall, just look at how much Scripture in Old and New Testament says so plainly, and yet must be symbolized away as fable only.

The Lord will stand on Mt Olivet and roar out of Zion.

Period.

 

[robert derrick]

Satan's binding is described in a figurative way in Revelation 20. To take what is clearly symbolism so literally reveals the carnal and earthly perspective that you have. As Christians, we should have a spiritual and heavenly perspective.

Heavenly perspective while doing away with plain meaning, is no earthly good.

Your dissing of the threads main points as symbol only is lazy and useless.

It is only because Satan is bound that we have the authority to simply resist him after which he must flee from us (James 4:7).

Satan is only bound to flee from the saints that resist him on earth.

He is not shut up from earth at all.

I've seen many premils who do not even acknowledge that Christ's death and resurrection had any effect on Satan.

That's would only be for them that are hearers only, and not doing the word, and see for themselves how Satan does flee with his temptations, when resisted with Jesus.

When he is shut up, he will no longer be tempting anyone to sin against Jesus.

 

[robert derrick]

I find it fascinating that even after it was revealed that you misrepresented Amil in your first couple posts in the thread, that you still can't even acknowledge that. Do you understand that a number of things you said in those posts are not true reflections of what Amils actually believe? Educate yourself so that you stop wasting time making straw man arguments.

Equally fascinating how you don't offer to show how your teachings have been misinterpreted by me.

Or, if they don't apply to you, then why act like they do.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Heavenly perspective while doing away with plain meaning, is no earthly good.

LOL. Premils often do away with the plain meaning of scripture. Such as John 5:28-29 which shows all of the dead being resurrected at the same time/hour. And passages like Matthew 13:40-43, Matthew 13:47-50 and Matthew 25:31-46 which show all people being judged at the same time. And passages like Matthew 24:35-39 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 which show all unbelievers being killed when Christ returns.

Your dissing of the threads main points as symbol only is lazy and useless.

Nonsense. If anyone is being lazy here, it's you. It's clear that you have not done your homework. You just give opinion after opinion without providing any scriptural support. That is lazy and useless.

Satan is only bound to flee from the saints that resist him on earth.

Was that the case in Old Testament times? You're not recognizing the difference between what he was able to do in Old Testament times compared to New Testament times.

He is not shut up from earth at all.

His binding is not about that. You're taking a symbolic description of his binding literally, which is not a wise thing to do. A spirit being cannot be literally chained up.

That's would only be for them that are hearers only, and not doing the word, and see for themselves how Satan does flee with his temptations, when resisted with Jesus.

When he is shut up, he will no longer be tempting anyone to sin against Jesus.

That is what you believe, but your interpretation of Revelation 20 contradicts a lot of other scripture. You don't seem to care about that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Many times the answer to doctrinal dispute is right in front of us, and is completely overlooked: Rev 20 cannot be speaking of a solely spiritual millennialism for Christ over His church today on earth, because Satan is not now shut up. This would mean he is not tempting any man today to sin, nor do we need to resist him at this time.

Those who agree with a spiritual millennialism only, and reject Christ's earthly millennial reign, make a great error by trying to say that Satan is therefore now shut up in the pit, and cannot tempt anyone on the earth.

Amillennialism does not teach that Satan is literally shut up in a pit and not able to tempt anyone on the earth. We don't take Revelation 20 literally like you do, so we don't believe it's talking about literally binding a spirit being with a literal chain like you do. You should take some time to research what we actually believe so that you don't waste your time making straw man arguments like this.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Those who say Satan is shut up to them, are saying they are no more tempted to sin, and so are therefore arrived, and the resurrection is past, and they are perfected in spirit, mind, and 'spiritual' body in heavenly places.

No one believes this. You have not made any effort to understand what Amillennialists believe. So, you end up saying nonsense like this that doesn't reflect what we believe (or anyone else for that matter).

Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

We don't say that the resurrection is past already. Full preterists do, but not Amillennialists.

They claim a life on earth, that Jesus never had, who was continually tempted in all points like us, which included on the cross to revile them that were reviling Him, to come down off the cross.

There are certain delusional Christians, that claim to have already recieved their resurrected spiritual bodies, while seated in heavenly places, so that they can no more sin against God.

Who are these delusional Christians that you're talking about? It's not Amillennialists since that is not what we believe.

That is how they claim the first resurrection is past and done, and that Satan is shut up to them, so that they are in the only possible millennial reign of Christ on earth.

Their so-called resurrected spiritual bodies may not be sinning, but their old forlorn mortal bodies on earth sure are.

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

They say their 'spirit body' in heavenly places has no pleasure in sinning anymore, while their hapless mortal bodies still do on earth.

Who are "they"? No one says this. You are clearly making no effort whatsoever to understand what we actually believe. We believe that the bodies of all believers, dead and alive, will be changed when Christ returns at the last trumpet in the future and we will then have spiritual, immortal bodies (1 Cor 15:50-54). But, not until then.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Equally fascinating how you don't offer to show how your teachings have been misinterpreted by me.

Or, if they don't apply to you, then why act like they do.

Okay, now I have done that in posts 48 and 49. You should be embarrassed for misrepresenting what we Amillennialists believe so badly.

 

[Truth7t7]

The Lord will stand on Mt Olivet and roar out of Zion.

Period.

Zechariah Chapter 14 Is The Eternal Kingdom Seen, After The Day Of The Lord

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[No Pre-TB]

His binding is not about that.

Can you explain this to me: If Satan was bound at the cross, why was the time for Christians after the cross the worst time for the church. When Satan was free to roam, before the cross, they were safe. How does his sealing make things worse, not better for us?

 

[robert derrick]

Nonsense. If anyone is being lazy here, it's you. It's clear that you have not done your homework. You just give opinion after opinion without providing any scriptural support. That is lazy and useless.

The difference is being born again of Christ, the promised seed, and have full revelation of Scriptural knowledge, to resist the devil daily in spiritual warfare against sinning with filthiness of the spirit and flesh.

In the OT Scriptures speaking of Satan's influence was rare, and limited to Job, prophecies of His fall as Lucifer, his deception of nations, and resisting the Lord's high priest in Zechariah.

He was not yet even identified as that old serpent in the garden.

His role on earth has not changed since the garden, but the individual saint's power and ability to resist him in daily war has changed.

What has changed is not the devil's power on earth as the god of this world, but is Jesus Christ coming in the flesh.

Satan is not now shut up from the earth, until the first bodily resurrection of the church in Rev 20.

And the thrones the saints will sit on earth, are during their reign with Jesus over all the earth.

Was that the case in Old Testament times? You're not recognizing the difference between what he was able to do in Old Testament times compared to New Testament times.

It's not the change in what the devil is able to do on earth, but the change in what every man is able to do on earth: to resist him with the power of Christ dwelling within.

In typical OSAS fashion, you put all the work on Jesus to repent and overcome the devil and sin, while the believers only just coast along by faith alone.

Rev 2:
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

This may indeed be the reason you people vehemently reject Scriptures speaking of Jesus' earthly reign over all nations with His saints: you don't want to need to be overcomers of the flesh and sin, even as Jesus was on earth. You don't want the necessity of walking in His steps in righteousness and true holiness.

You want that to be spiritually symbolic only.

Since Scripture is speaking literally in Rev 20, then so is Scripture speaking literally in Rev 2. In order to have part in the bodily resurrection and reign with Jesus on earth: we must overcome sin daily to be godly doers of righteousness and not ungodly sinners like the world.

Unrighteous workers of the flesh on earth today, will not be reigning with Jesus over all the earth tomorrow, because they aren't even spiritually reigning with Jesus over their own lives today.

His binding is not about that. You're taking a symbolic description of his binding literally, which is not a wise thing to do. A spirit being cannot be literally chained up.

Tell that to God:

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.

If the chains aren't real, then neither is the hell the chains are in.

Once again, you do away with the truth of Scripture, by symbolizing away anything you like.

That is what you believe, but your interpretation of Revelation 20 contradicts a lot of other scripture. You don't seem to care about that.

I don't care about your Symbol Man's Bible.

 

[robert derrick]

Amillennialism does not teach that Satan is literally shut up in a pit and not able to tempt anyone on the earth. We don't take Revelation 20 literally like you do, so we don't believe it's talking about literally binding a spirit being with a literal chain like you do. You should take some time to research what we actually believe so that you don't waste your time making straw man arguments like this.

I already know what you believe and don't believe by you: You believe Scripture is symbolic and don't believe it is literal, in order to teach your doctrine.

Simple.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Can you explain this to me: If Satan was bound at the cross, why was the time for Christians after the cross the worst time for the church. When Satan was free to roam, before the cross, they were safe. How does his sealing make things worse, not better for us?

Does it say that Satan is bound from persecuting people? No. It says he is bound from deceiving people. Amils and Premils have a different understanding of what that means exactly. But, it does not say he is bound from persecuting people. You say that was "the worst time for the church". Why do you have such a carnal perspective? Yes, it was rough for the church in terms of persecution but are you considering that MANY more people were being saved during that time than ever before in the history of the world? Why do you not think from a spiritual and heavenly perspective?

Those people who were killed ended up going to heaven. The one who previously held the power of death that he used to keep people as slaves to the fear of death has his power taken away (read Hebrews 2:14-15) and then MANY of those people who were formerly slaves to the fear of death were set free because of the hope of eternal life that Christ's death and resurrection provided. Satan was bound from keeping those people from hearing the gospel and being saved. So, he killed their bodies? Does that mean he won? No way! He could not keep their souls from going to heaven. He lost their souls and that is what matter. Jesus came to bind the strong man (Satan) and spoil his goods (the people he kept as slaves to the fear of death) and He did not fail in His mission.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I already know what you believe and don't believe by you: You believe Scripture is symbolic and don't believe it is literal, in order to teach your doctrine.

Simple.

This is complete nonsense. You have nothing to refute what I'm saying so you resort to ridiculous, childish comments like this instead. My beliefs are primarily based on literal, straightforward scripture. Like the ones that teach that all people will be resurrected on the same day (John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:1-2), that all people will be judged at the same time (Matt 25:31-46, Matt 13:40-43, Matt 13:47-50, Acts 17:31), that all believers will be changed to have immortal bodies and caught up to meet the Lord at the same time (1 Cor 15:22-23, 1 Cor 15:50-54, 1 Thess 4:14-17), and that all unbelievers will be killed when Christ returns (Matt 24:35-39, 2 Thess 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Rev 19:17-18).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The difference is being born again of Christ, the promised seed, and have full revelation of Scriptural knowledge, to resist the devil daily in spiritual warfare against sinning with filthiness of the spirit and flesh.

In the OT Scriptures speaking of Satan's influence was rare, and limited to Job, prophecies of His fall as Lucifer, his deception of nations, and resisting the Lord's high priest in Zechariah.

He was not yet even identified as that old serpent in the garden.

His role on earth has not changed since the garden, but the individual saint's power and ability to resist him in daily war has changed.

Yes, and that is because he was bound. You're just not getting it.

What has changed is not the devil's power on earth as the god of this world, but is Jesus Christ coming in the flesh.

You say his power has not changed? Have you never read this:

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

Satan is not now shut up from the earth

No one claims that! You continue to show your ignorance and waste your time making straw man arguments.

, until the first bodily resurrection of the church in Rev 20.

And the thrones the saints will sit on earth, are during their reign with Jesus over all the earth.


It's not the change in what the devil is able to do on earth, but the change in what every man is able to do on earth: to resist him with the power of Christ dwelling within.

Does what every man is able to do not affect what Satan is able to do to them? Of course! So, you're not making any sense here whatsoever.

In typical OSAS fashion, you put all the work on Jesus to repent and overcome the devil and sin, while the believers only just coast along by faith alone.

What in the world are you talking about here? You are a child. You continue to misrepresent what I believe over and over again. I do not believe in OSAS. I believe man is responsible to choose to submit to Jesus and surrender their lives to Him, so I don't know where you are getting your nonsense from. Not from me. Must be from your imagination.

Rev 2:
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

This may indeed be the reason you people vehemently reject Scriptures speaking of Jesus' earthly reign over all nations with His saints: you don't want to need to be overcomers of the flesh and sin, even as Jesus was on earth. You don't want the necessity of walking in His steps in righteousness and true holiness.

This is a flat out lie that you are making up. Nowhere have I said anything to indicate that it isn't necessary to be an overcomer. What is wrong with you? You are making a complete fool of yourself here.

Tell that to God:

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.

If the chains aren't real, then neither is the hell the chains are in.

Once again, you do away with the truth of Scripture, by symbolizing away anything you like.

That is talking about something that happened long ago. So, do you think that fallen angels have just been literally chained up for a long time without being able to do anything?

I don't care about your Symbol Man's Bible.

Your attempt to make this as if I take all of scripture symbolically shows what an immature, childish liar that you are. The difference between us isn't that I take nothing literally and you take everything literally as you're trying to make it seem. We both takes some scripture literally and some symbolically. You'd have to be a fool to not acknowledge that at least some of it is symbolic. You know it is. So, the difference is that we disagree at times on what is literal and what is symbolic.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Many times the answer to doctrinal dispute is right in front of us, and is completely overlooked: Rev 20 cannot be speaking of a solely spiritual millennialism for Christ over His church today on earth, because Satan is not now shut up. This would mean he is not tempting any man today to sin, nor do we need to resist him at this time.

Those who agree with a spiritual millennialism only, and reject Christ's earthly millennial reign, make a great error by trying to say that Satan is therefore now shut up in the pit, and cannot tempt anyone on the earth.

Satan is not now shut up, because the saints are still tempted like Jesus was, and must therefore endure and overcome such temptation, as Jesus did.

Satan is not now shut up, because we are called upon to resist him by humbling ourselves to God.

Since Satan is not now shut up, then the millennial reign of Christ spoken of in Rev 20, cannot be spiritually fulfilled now on earth.

The millennial reign of Christ in Rev 20 must be His earthly kingdom afer His return, which is the only time of this earth, that Satan is shut up in the pit, and is not able to tempt any person on earth to sin.

I've never even heard of a "spiritual millennium." How unscriptural can you be. Must be a Preterist teaching.

 

[ewq1938]

I've never even heard of a "spiritual millennium." How unscriptural can you be. Must be a Preterist teaching.

It's Amill, which is partial preterist.

 

[WPM]

Do you believe Christ returns at the 2nd advent? If so, then he isn’t here now. He will come back. If he will return and he isn’t here now, what do you call that? What differs if he’s spiritually with us now and hasn’t returned yet?

He is returning at the second coming to set up a perfect and eternal kingdom devoid of the curse. This is so different to the Premil age to come which blighted by all the fruit of the curse and eventually overrun by the wicked.

You did not address my query: Where in Revelation 20 does it teach that Jesus is on earth during some supposed future millennium? Nowhere. You add that unto the inspired text to support your beliefs.