Spiritual Millennialism is not with Satan shut up

[Timtofly]

Randy I know you better than this surly you can’t actually believe that this is a good argument especially in post number two?

I’m sure that you don’t believe that amils think that we can’t be tempted or that we think that we are already in our new resurrected bodies?

Surely it is no different than claiming the Millennium is goat infested and a bust?

 

[No Pre-TB]

One simple question that occured to me: how can we meet with the Lord in the air, while Satan is still the prince and the power of the air?

At the 7th Trumpet, the time Christ begins his reign, will Satan be sealed. That is the time we meet him in the air, as you shown, that Satan will no longer have power of the air.

To say that Rev 20 refers to now, is to say that Satan is shut up and sealed now.

True. Why? Otherwise Christ would be reigning the same time the beast reigns and Satan with it during the trumpets. How is that possible? It causes an illogical impossibility devoid of reason.

Christ has never ruled with dominion over all the earth, and will not do so, until His return as Lord and King over all lords and kings on the earth.

Luke 19 said, He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Christ left to obtain a Kingdom. He said to us, occupy till I return. When he returns, then the Kingdom will be his when he begins to reign. He hasn’t returned to claim the Kingdom yet.

You know what persuaded me to come to your conclusions, when I was a pre-tribulation advocate?

I once believed in Pre-TB, until I began to study and ask the difficult questions. But, not being Pre-TB does not negate Pre-Millennialism. There are things that different eschatological types get right and wrong. I don’t agree with dispensationalism, but still believe and I see the Bible teach a 1 thousand year or so reign of Christ. Is it physical? I don’t know. But I do believe that true believers will see him. Perhaps only the true followers will see him and others won’t; just like it was when he rose from the dead.

 

[robert derrick]

Who believes what you are alleging?
As far as I know nobody on this forum believes all this garbage.

The operative words being, As far as you know.

Now that you do know of it, even if you want to say I made it up, then you can now agree or disagree with it, and show why.

Otherwise, your just wasting time about meaningless ignorance.

My habit is to strip people's teachings of all their fluff, and just get down to the bare bones.

 

[jeffweeder]

The operative words being, As far as you know.

Now that you do know of it, even if you want to say I made it up, then you can now agree or disagree with it, and show why.

Otherwise, your just wasting time about meaningless ignorance.

My habit is to strip people's teachings of all their fluff, and just get down to the bare bones.

You make so many false claims in your opening 2 posts that I do not know where to start.
If you really want to know Robert, ask me one specific question at a time and I will address you.

 

[WPM]

Those who write their own Symbol Man's Bible, take Scripture anyway they want.

No small thing then, that they also take anything anyone writes, anyway they want.

It's the typical manner of them that refuse to be corrected, to sidestep a correction of their teaching, and not even try to respond to it.

Anyone believing that Rev 20 is speaking of Christ's reign over His people today on earth, must also believe that Satan is shut up in the bottomless pit today.

Which means Satan cannot be tempting any person on earth to sin today.

Satan being shut up for thousand years, is the hallmark of millennialism, where we are told he will not be able to resist God, nor tempt man to sin against God on earth, while the resurrected God is reigning over all the earth, and the people inhabiting it.

That is not at all being fulfilled today, and so Rev 20 cannot at all be speaking of today.

Simple.

You talk so much out of total ignorance. Revelation 20 is simply talking about the enlightenment of the Gentiles after the first resurrection.

 

[WPM]

The operative words being, As far as you know.

Now that you do know of it, even if you want to say I made it up, then you can now agree or disagree with it, and show why.

Otherwise, your just wasting time about meaningless ignorance.

My habit is to strip people's teachings of all their fluff, and just get down to the bare bones.

Not so. It is to talk theological gibberish that doesn't make sense.

 

[robert derrick]

You talk so much out of total ignorance. Revelation 20 is simply talking about the enlightenment of the Gentiles after the first resurrection.

Ahh. Something new. That's all I ask for.

It's not much, but thanks.

It's just another way of saying Rev 20 is about Christian spiritual resurrection ongoing today, which began with Jesus' bodily resurrection.

But since, Satan is still tempting His saints, and we are exhorted to resist Him till he flees, then the church's ongoing spiritual resurrection is not that of Rev 20.

It's the church's bodily resurrection with the second coming of Jesus, to receive His church unto Himself in the air.

That is when the prince and power of the air today, will not longer be in the air, but cast down into the pit, and shut up from resisting the Lord on earth, falsely accusing the brethren, and tempting natural men to sin.

 

[robert derrick]

You make so many false claims in your opening 2 posts that I do not know where to start.

Try with one point. The longest journey begins with the first step.

 

[WPM]

Ahh. Something new. That's all I ask for.

It's not much, but thanks.

It's just another way of saying Rev 20 is about Christian spiritual resurrection ongoing today, which began with Jesus' bodily resurrection.

But since, Satan is still tempting His saints, and we are exhorted to resist Him till he flees, then the church's ongoing spiritual resurrection is not that of Rev 20.

It's the church's bodily resurrection with the second coming of Jesus, to receive His church unto Himself in the air.

That is when the prince and power of the air today, will not longer be in the air, but cast down into the pit, and shut up from resisting the Lord on earth, falsely accusing the brethren, and tempting natural men to sin.

Jesus showed us He bound the strongman 2000 years ago. You reject that. Your fight is with Him. Genesis 3:15 predicted, “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”

This is metaphoric language predicting the impairment of the devil through the earthly ministry of the Messiah. Satan was going to be spiritually incapacitated through the work of Christ. We see two amazing things in this prophecy, first, a profound picture of the cross, and second, the acute effect that it had upon the devil. This prophecy is a remarkable forecast of Calvary and the consequence of Christ’s atoning sacrifice on the enemy. It also addresses the incapacitating fate that befalls Satan. This shows that Satan’s ability to function has been impaired. His power and that of his deluded minions is restricted through the preaching of the Gospel and the advance of the kingdom of God. Satan’s power and his movement has been restrained, albeit not completely.

Significantly, the first prophecy of Christ and His coming and the devil and his doom in Scripture is a symbolic one with a literal interpretation. This is surely something Bible students should carefully note. It is also worth noting that nowhere in this well-known prophetic passage does it predict that Satan would be destroyed at Calvary – that is still to come – but that he would be restricted in his operations through the spiritual brain damage he would sustain there.

The bruising of Satan’s head by Christ broke the unchallenged sway of the devil over the nations. Jesus destroyed the incredible lordship that Satan had on the human race and plundered his house of countless souls. Since the cross, numerous Gentiles have been set free from their blindness and bondage. They have been delivered into the kingdom of God. In doing this, Christ destroyed the claims, authority and ownership that Satan had over the nations. Jesus made a way of escape for the Gentiles out of the kingdom of Satan. The power and influence Satan once had over the Gentiles was assaulted through the earthly ministry of Christ. This curtailed the devil, allowing the free-flow of the Gospel across the world. Christ battered Satan’s house, damaged his authority, limiting the scale of his influence. He indeed destroyed the overwhelming claims and ownership that Satan had over the Gentile people.

Matthew 12:22-29 records, “Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind (Gr. deo) the strong man? And then he will spoil his house.”

The “strong man” here is Satan. His “house” is the dark area of spiritual influence that Satan rules over in the kingdom of darkness. His “goods” are the humans he enslaves in bondage and servitude. To “spoil his house” and “spoil his goods” is to conquer those who are enslaved under the devil’s control and liberate them into the kingdom of God.

Obviously, the fact that Jesus cast out devils by the Spirit of God demonstrated that the promised kingdom of God has already come. This parable confirms that the liberating of the elect could not happen “except he first bind the strong man.” According to Christ, this deliverance from captivity could not happen before Satan was spiritually bound. The binding therefore had to precede the liberation of the redeemed and was definitely not delayed 2000 years+ until the second coming as Premillennialists would wrongly argue. This all occurred through the earthly ministry of Christ.

He came to the strong man's house (this sinful world) and spiritually chained Satan. He is like a dog on a leash that will only harm those that foolishly get close to him. He has power and movement but it is restrained and limited since the ministry of Christ. The devil was subject to the purposes of God and hurt by the spiritual advance of the kingdom of God. This kingdom is still alive and active today. Souls are still being marvellously delivered from the power of Satan. The binding of the strong man continues today wherever the Gospel prevails.

Mark 3:11, 23-27 also records: “unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God ... And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind (Gr. deo) the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.”

Christ’s earthly ministry expressly bound Satan and damaged his wicked house on this earth. This was indeed what was prophesied in the Garden of Eden. It didn’t say that the cross would destroy him, but hamper him in his schemes. His head was bruised by the supernatural punch of Christ.

The Lord confronted Satan head on in his own backyard and soundly defeated him. Everywhere that Christ went, demons were subject to his every word. This authority was in turn delegated to his disciples who operated this same spiritual power were ever they gone. His servants enforced his authority casting many demons out and seeing many men and women delivered from the power of Satan to the power of God. This was unprecedented. God's people, as a whole, had now power over the enemy.

Significantly, the Greek word deo (Strong’s 1210) employed here is the exact same word used in Revelation 20 which means to bind in either a literal or a spiritual sense. This is what happened everywhere the kingdom of God was seen, the kingdom of darkness was suppressed. Moreover, at Calvary, Satan’s power to deceive the nations was spiritual bound or curtailed by the finished and victorious work of Christ. Revelation 20:2-3 states, “And he (Christ) laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and (Gr. deo) bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.”

 

[robert derrick]

You obviously do not understand what amils believe that the binding is

The key to the binding is the great chain. We believe that the great chain is the power of the gospel which binds satan from deceiving us. The gospel (if we choose to believe and trust) binds the power of satan over us as the gospel reveals the truth of who Jesus is and what He did on the cross. When Jesus rose from the dead He defeated death spiritually and claimed His power and began to reign thus if we believe we reign over sin with Him.

So yes we can be tempted still but now we now have that power to overcome if we choose

I have no disagreement with that, which is true about the ongoing spiritual resurrection of the church on earth.

Except that Scripture does not say Satan is shut up partly.

Christ reigns personally over His believers on earth today, and raises us up to sit in heavenly laces to have judgment over our lives and households. We are give resurrection power of Christ Himself to resist the devil to flee from us. But the devil is not shut up at all. He still tempts to sin, and is still the prince and power of the air, as the god of this world.

That will only be with the Lord's return, and he will be cast down from the air to make way for the saints. He will be shut up in the pit and off the earth completely, not just in part: No resisting the Lord. (Zech 3) No falsely accusing the brethren. (Rev 12) No tempting any man to sin against God. (Matthew 4) No taking any man at his will. (2 Tim 2)

Your answer shows a problem with many good Christians such as yourself: for some reason you think it is necessary to disanull Jesus' earthly reign, in order to be enlightened about the spiritual significance of Rev 20 today.

It can be taught spiritually, but denying that it is specifically speaking of the bodily resurrection, brings in unnecessary confusion.

No Scripture needs to be stripped of it's plain sensible meaning, in order to teach it's spiritual application.

Once that kind of spiritualizing and symbolizing is brought in, to the exclusion of a child like reading of it, then confusion is brought in, with mistrust in plain wording of Scripture.

To do away with Christ's earthly reign, in the name of teaching spiritual resurrection of the soul while still on earth, is to do away with the parting of the Red Sea, to teach the spiritual deliverance of our souls from the slavery of sin in Egypt.

A child reads revelation 20 and immediately speaks of Jesus Chris reigning over all the earth with His saints, and you would then need to disabuse him of that silly notion, in order to enlighten him about spiritual realities today.

What else then will that child wonder he needs to be disabused of about the Bible tomorrow? What other silly things does the Bible talk about, that any child would think is true the way it's written?

I would never do that to any child seeking to believe in and trust the words of the Bible.

The only ones that don't understand the spiritual truth of Christ's resurrection in us, the hope of glory, are those not born again and alive to the Spirit of Christ.

That is not an 'amil' thing, but a Jesus thing.

You see, I don';t use those terms on purpose, because I am not an 'amil'. Not a 'premil'. Nor a 'postmil'. I'm a Christian that knows His resurrection within me today, and know His earthly reign will be some day tomorrow.

If not in a moment from now.

 

[robert derrick]

At the 7th Trumpet, the time Christ begins his reign, will Satan be sealed. That is the time we meet him in the air, as you shown, that Satan will no longer have power of the air.

Exactly. The Lord will make way for His saints to meet Him in the air.

Do you know when I began to change my traditional belief about being resurrected before His coming? When the simple question came to mind, without even trying to think about: How can Satan still be the prince and power of the air, when we meet with the Lord in the air?

And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

Luke 19 said, He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Christ left to obtain a Kingdom. He said to us, occupy till I return. When he returns, then the Kingdom will be his when he begins to reign. He hasn’t returned to claim the Kingdom yet.

The problem with super-spiritualizers and fanatic symbolizers, is that they are more interesting in the intellectual game of finding double-meanings, that they exclude the first plain meaning.

This makes the Bible just another book of symbolic and spiritual myths, that is not ground in truth on earth.

Being enlightened about Christ everlasting spiritual kingdom in us today, does not mean we have to do away with His earthly kingdom tomorrow.

I once believed in Pre-TB, until I began to study and ask the difficult questions. But, not being Pre-TB does not negate Pre-Millennialism. There are things that different eschatological types get right and wrong. I don’t agree with dispensationalism, but still believe and I see the Bible teach a 1 thousand year or so reign of Christ. Is it physical? I don’t know. But I do believe that true believers will see him. Perhaps only the true followers will see him and others won’t; just like it was when he rose from the dead.

You are correct. It is both. We are spiritually resurrected in Christ Jesus, while still in natural bodies today, and we will be bodily resurrected to reign with Him over the earth tomorrow.

Or in the next moment, if the Father commands Him to now come.

 

[robert derrick]

You reject that. Your fight is with Him. Genesis 3:15 predicted, “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”

This is metaphoric language predicting the impairment of the devil through the earthly ministry of the Messiah. Satan was going to be spiritually incapacitated through the work of Christ.

The devil flees from the saints that resist him today. He will be shut up during Christ's earthly reign, so that no man can say the devil made him do it.

Matthew 12:22-29 records, “Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind (Gr. deo) the strong man? And then he will spoil his house.”

The “strong man” here is Satan. His “house” is the dark area of spiritual influence that Satan rules over in the kingdom of darkness. His “goods” are the humans he enslaves in bondage and servitude. To “spoil his house” and “spoil his goods” is to conquer those who are enslaved under the devil’s control and liberate them into the kingdom of God.

Another new one. Thanks.

Christ casts out the lust of the devil from the hearts of His saints today, and so destroys the works of the devil in our lives.

He then seeks to enter back in through temptation.

During Christ's earthly reign, he won't be seeking to do anything on earth.

Obviously, the fact that Jesus cast out devils by the Spirit of God demonstrated that the promised kingdom of God has already come.

True. His spiritual kingdom is now here and for men to be within our hearts.

His earthly kingdom with be ruled by His spiritual law and righteous judgment, and no more the carnal law of men's ordinances.

His everlasting spiritual kingdom will also be for them that come to Him by faith at that time, to walk in His paths.

 

[WPM]

I have no disagreement with that, which is true about the ongoing spiritual resurrection of the church on earth.

Except that Scripture does not say Satan is shut up partly.

Christ reigns personally over His believers on earth today, and raises us up to sit in heavenly laces to have judgment over our lives and households. We are give resurrection power of Christ Himself to resist the devil to flee from us. But the devil is not shut up at all. He still tempts to sin, and is still the prince and power of the air, as the god of this world.

That will only be with the Lord's return, and he will be cast down from the air to make way for the saints. He will be shut up in the pit and off the earth completely, not just in part: No resisting the Lord. (Zech 3) No falsely accusing the brethren. (Rev 12) No tempting any man to sin against God. (Matthew 4) No taking any man at his will. (2 Tim 2)

Your answer shows a problem with many good Christians such as yourself: for some reason you think it is necessary to disanull Jesus' earthly reign, in order to be enlightened about the spiritual significance of Rev 20 today.

It can be taught spiritually, but denying that it is specifically speaking of the bodily resurrection, brings in unnecessary confusion.

No Scripture needs to be stripped of it's plain sensible meaning, in order to teach it's spiritual application.

Once that kind of spiritualizing and symbolizing is brought in, to the exclusion of a child like reading of it, then confusion is brought in, with mistrust in plain wording of Scripture.

To do away with Christ's earthly reign, in the name of teaching spiritual resurrection of the soul while still on earth, is to do away with the parting of the Red Sea, to teach the spiritual deliverance of our souls from the slavery of sin in Egypt.

A child reads revelation 20 and immediately speaks of Jesus Chris reigning over all the earth with His saints, and you would then need to disabuse him of that silly notion, in order to enlighten him about spiritual realities today.

What else then will that child wonder he needs to be disabused of about the Bible tomorrow? What other silly things does the Bible talk about, that any child would think is true the way it's written?

I would never do that to any child seeking to believe in and trust the words of the Bible.

The only ones that don't understand the spiritual truth of Christ's resurrection in us, the hope of glory, are those not born again and alive to the Spirit of Christ.

That is not an 'amil' thing, but a Jesus thing.

You see, I don';t use those terms on purpose, because I am not an 'amil'. Not a 'premil'. Nor a 'postmil'. I'm a Christian that knows His resurrection within me today, and know His earthly reign will be some day tomorrow.

If not in a moment from now.

Where in Revelation 20 does it teach that Jesus is on earth during some supposed future millennium? Nowhere. You add that unto the inspired text to support your beliefs.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus showed us He bound the strongman 2000 years ago. You reject that. Your fight is with Him. Genesis 3:15 predicted, “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”

This is metaphoric language predicting the impairment of the devil through the earthly ministry of the Messiah. Satan was going to be spiritually incapacitated through the work of Christ. We see two amazing things in this prophecy, first, a profound picture of the cross, and second, the acute effect that it had upon the devil. This prophecy is a remarkable forecast of Calvary and the consequence of Christ’s atoning sacrifice on the enemy. It also addresses the incapacitating fate that befalls Satan. This shows that Satan’s ability to function has been impaired. His power and that of his deluded minions is restricted through the preaching of the Gospel and the advance of the kingdom of God. Satan’s power and his movement has been restrained, albeit not completely.

Significantly, the first prophecy of Christ and His coming and the devil and his doom in Scripture is a symbolic one with a literal interpretation. This is surely something Bible students should carefully note. It is also worth noting that nowhere in this well-known prophetic passage does it predict that Satan would be destroyed at Calvary – that is still to come – but that he would be restricted in his operations through the spiritual brain damage he would sustain there.

The bruising of Satan’s head by Christ broke the unchallenged sway of the devil over the nations. Jesus destroyed the incredible lordship that Satan had on the human race and plundered his house of countless souls. Since the cross, numerous Gentiles have been set free from their blindness and bondage. They have been delivered into the kingdom of God. In doing this, Christ destroyed the claims, authority and ownership that Satan had over the nations. Jesus made a way of escape for the Gentiles out of the kingdom of Satan. The power and influence Satan once had over the Gentiles was assaulted through the earthly ministry of Christ. This curtailed the devil, allowing the free-flow of the Gospel across the world. Christ battered Satan’s house, damaged his authority, limiting the scale of his influence. He indeed destroyed the overwhelming claims and ownership that Satan had over the Gentile people.

Matthew 12:22-29 records, “Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind (Gr. deo) the strong man? And then he will spoil his house.”

The “strong man” here is Satan. His “house” is the dark area of spiritual influence that Satan rules over in the kingdom of darkness. His “goods” are the humans he enslaves in bondage and servitude. To “spoil his house” and “spoil his goods” is to conquer those who are enslaved under the devil’s control and liberate them into the kingdom of God.

Obviously, the fact that Jesus cast out devils by the Spirit of God demonstrated that the promised kingdom of God has already come. This parable confirms that the liberating of the elect could not happen “except he first bind the strong man.” According to Christ, this deliverance from captivity could not happen before Satan was spiritually bound. The binding therefore had to precede the liberation of the redeemed and was definitely not delayed 2000 years+ until the second coming as Premillennialists would wrongly argue. This all occurred through the earthly ministry of Christ.

He came to the strong man's house (this sinful world) and spiritually chained Satan. He is like a dog on a leash that will only harm those that foolishly get close to him. He has power and movement but it is restrained and limited since the ministry of Christ. The devil was subject to the purposes of God and hurt by the spiritual advance of the kingdom of God. This kingdom is still alive and active today. Souls are still being marvellously delivered from the power of Satan. The binding of the strong man continues today wherever the Gospel prevails.

Mark 3:11, 23-27 also records: “unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God ... And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind (Gr. deo) the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.”

Christ’s earthly ministry expressly bound Satan and damaged his wicked house on this earth. This was indeed what was prophesied in the Garden of Eden. It didn’t say that the cross would destroy him, but hamper him in his schemes. His head was bruised by the supernatural punch of Christ.

The Lord confronted Satan head on in his own backyard and soundly defeated him. Everywhere that Christ went, demons were subject to his every word. This authority was in turn delegated to his disciples who operated this same spiritual power were ever they gone. His servants enforced his authority casting many demons out and seeing many men and women delivered from the power of Satan to the power of God. This was unprecedented. God's people, as a whole, had now power over the enemy.

Significantly, the Greek word deo (Strong’s 1210) employed here is the exact same word used in Revelation 20 which means to bind in either a literal or a spiritual sense. This is what happened everywhere the kingdom of God was seen, the kingdom of darkness was suppressed. Moreover, at Calvary, Satan’s power to deceive the nations was spiritual bound or curtailed by the finished and victorious work of Christ. Revelation 20:2-3 states, “And he (Christ) laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and (Gr. deo) bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.”

If Amil accept all the above, why do they reject that Satan will be bound in the pit during the 1,000 years Jesus is on the earth as King?

 

[Timtofly]

Where in Revelation 20 does it teach that Jesus is on earth during some supposed future millennium? Nowhere. You add that unto the inspired text to support your beliefs.

And you call Christ an angel.

"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

It is the angel who came down from heaven who is the he who laid hold of Satan. You claim that is Christ. Yet you deny this angel came to earth?

This verse is not proof of Jesus on earth, but yet you claim it is Christ on earth?

Jesus came with His camp of the saints in Revelation 19. You are the one denying Scripture, and even your own erroneous interpretation that Christ indeed was on earth when Satan was bound. You place Jesus in this chapter on earth, then deny your own point?

If indeed Jesus was on earth in the verses prior to the angel bringing a key and a chain, then certainly Jesus from Revelation 19 already on earth bound Satan, and not the angel. The angel just delivered the key and chain. You refuted your whole recap point and that Revelation 20 goes back to the first century. Jesus just won the battle in Revelation 19. The angel brings down a key and chain from God. Jesus is on earth in Revelation 20.

You just made the point, you yourself deny. Jesus was on earth in Revelation 20, and never leaves, ever again. You yourself pointed that out in post #29. You claim pre-mill force Jesus into the text. Are you doing that as well? There is no recap in any verse in Revelation 20. There is not restart back to the Cross in Revelation 20. Satan is on earth. Jesus is on earth. All the Millennium saints are on the earth. Satan is bound. The beheaded are resurrected on the earth. You cannot have it both ways. Jesus is either on earth binding Satan, or Satan is bound in heaven. Then you have to explain why Satan is bound on earth, by Jesus. Or explain how Satan was bound in heaven, yet an angel came down from heaven with a key and a chain.

 

[Marty fox]

I have no disagreement with that, which is true about the ongoing spiritual resurrection of the church on earth.

Except that Scripture does not say Satan is shut up partly.

Christ reigns personally over His believers on earth today, and raises us up to sit in heavenly laces to have judgment over our lives and households. We are give resurrection power of Christ Himself to resist the devil to flee from us. But the devil is not shut up at all. He still tempts to sin, and is still the prince and power of the air, as the god of this world.

That will only be with the Lord's return, and he will be cast down from the air to make way for the saints. He will be shut up in the pit and off the earth completely, not just in part: No resisting the Lord. (Zech 3) No falsely accusing the brethren. (Rev 12) No tempting any man to sin against God. (Matthew 4) No taking any man at his will. (2 Tim 2)

Your answer shows a problem with many good Christians such as yourself: for some reason you think it is necessary to disanull Jesus' earthly reign, in order to be enlightened about the spiritual significance of Rev 20 today.

It can be taught spiritually, but denying that it is specifically speaking of the bodily resurrection, brings in unnecessary confusion.

No Scripture needs to be stripped of it's plain sensible meaning, in order to teach it's spiritual application.

Once that kind of spiritualizing and symbolizing is brought in, to the exclusion of a child like reading of it, then confusion is brought in, with mistrust in plain wording of Scripture.

To do away with Christ's earthly reign, in the name of teaching spiritual resurrection of the soul while still on earth, is to do away with the parting of the Red Sea, to teach the spiritual deliverance of our souls from the slavery of sin in Egypt.

A child reads revelation 20 and immediately speaks of Jesus Chris reigning over all the earth with His saints, and you would then need to disabuse him of that silly notion, in order to enlighten him about spiritual realities today.

What else then will that child wonder he needs to be disabused of about the Bible tomorrow? What other silly things does the Bible talk about, that any child would think is true the way it's written?

I would never do that to any child seeking to believe in and trust the words of the Bible.

The only ones that don't understand the spiritual truth of Christ's resurrection in us, the hope of glory, are those not born again and alive to the Spirit of Christ.

That is not an 'amil' thing, but a Jesus thing.

You see, I don';t use those terms on purpose, because I am not an 'amil'. Not a 'premil'. Nor a 'postmil'. I'm a Christian that knows His resurrection within me today, and know His earthly reign will be some day tomorrow.

If not in a moment from now.

But the bible isn't written to childlike manor it is revealed by the spirit Jesus didn't even teach in childlike manor He spoke in parables

 

[ewq1938]

But the bible isn't written to childlike manor it is revealed by the spirit Jesus didn't even teach in childlike manor He spoke in parables

I believe you mean "manner".

 

[No Pre-TB]

Where in Revelation 20 does it teach that Jesus is on earth during some supposed future millennium? Nowhere. You add that unto the inspired text to support your beliefs.

Do you believe Christ returns at the 2nd advent? If so, then he isn’t here now. He will come back. If he will return and he isn’t here now, what do you call that? What differs if he’s spiritually with us now and hasn’t returned yet?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Many times the answer to doctrinal dispute is right in front of us, and is completely overlooked: Rev 20 cannot be speaking of a solely spiritual millennialism for Christ over His church today on earth, because Satan is not now shut up. This would mean he is not tempting any man today to sin, nor do we need to resist him at this time.

Those who agree with a spiritual millennialism only, and reject Christ's earthly millennial reign, make a great error by trying to say that Satan is therefore now shut up in the pit, and cannot tempt anyone on the earth.

Satan is not now shut up, because the saints are still tempted like Jesus was, and must therefore endure and overcome such temptation, as Jesus did.

Satan is not now shut up, because we are called upon to resist him by humbling ourselves to God.

Since Satan is not now shut up, then the millennial reign of Christ spoken of in Rev 20, cannot be spiritually fulfilled now on earth.

The millennial reign of Christ in Rev 20 must be His earthly kingdom afer His return, which is the only time of this earth, that Satan is shut up in the pit, and is not able to tempt any person on earth to sin.

Satan's binding is described in a figurative way in Revelation 20. To take what is clearly symbolism so literally reveals the carnal and earthly perspective that you have. As Christians, we should have a spiritual and heavenly perspective.

It is only because Satan is bound that we have the authority to simply resist him after which he must flee from us (James 4:7). That was not the case in Old Testament times. He must flee from us because we now have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us and he cannot fight against the Holy Spirit. His binding should not be understood as him being literally chained up and completely incapacitated (as if a spirit being could be literally chained up).

His binding relates to the fact that he has not been able to keep the world in spiritual darkness in New Testament times the way he was able to do in Old Testament times. Multitudes of people have been saved in NT times while relatively few were saved in OT times. That is because of the binding of Satan. The following passages relate to his binding:

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

1 John 3:8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

Acts 26:15 “Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ “ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

I've seen many premils who do not even acknowledge that Christ's death and resurrection had any effect on Satan. But, scripture indicates that it had a huge effect on Satan. He held the power of death but Christ took that away from him. The reason Christ appeared the first time "was to destroy the devil's work". Did He fail? God forbid! No, He succeeded in doing that. Satan is defeated and his fate is sealed. Multitudes have been delivered from his grasp and into the kingdom of Christ the past 2,000 years or so. That couldn't have happened without him being bound from holding the power of death and keeping the world in bondage to the fear of death.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Who believes what you are alleging?
As far as I know nobody on this forum believes all this garbage.

No one does. He is revealing his ignorance. He is apparently too lazy to find out what Amils actually believe. He has made all kinds of false assumptions about what we believe just because he doesn't want to put in any time or effort to find out what we believe.