Was Jesus Eternally Tormented?

[The Learner]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HELL.

There is no such thing as eternal torment in the Bible. It exists only in pagan mythology and fear-mongering ideology.

The root word for HELL doesn't come from Holy Writ. It's actually derived from the norse demi-god HEL who was said to be the female guardian of the underworld. HELL is a person in pagan myth, not a place. The root word for HADES is actually the Greek god of the underworld. Again the term refers to a person, not a place. Gehenna was the site of the pagan god MOLECH to whom the Hebrews once sacrificed their living children. Again, the term refers to a pagan personality, not a place. The use of these terms was employed by early translators of Hebrew & Greek text so as to employ fear-mongering attitudes to gain and keep church members. It is not consistent with Biblical context.

The notion of an afterlife or underworld began to infect western ideology in the days of ancient Egypt. It was thought that certain incantations and ceremonies would preserve not only the body but some aspect of the human personality. According to God's Word, there is no part of a human that survives physical death. Ergo, there is no eternal torment.

Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. (Ecclesiastes 3:19)

In the first book of the Bible, God tells us that we are finite, that death is the end of the story for all of us.

Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; (Genesis 6:3a)

In order for one to justify the false dogma of eternal torment one must ALTER the meaning and definition of common words. Words are used to teach truth but words can also be used to twist it into doctrines of demons. Death becomes something other than the end of physical life and the Lake of Fire assumes a quality fire never has in nature. God uses these words to teach physical and spiritual truth. Fire consumes everything as does the grave. There is no suggestion in any definition of the words 'death' and 'fire' that they mean something other than their simplest meaning - absolute termination and utter consumption.

The Old Testament speaks only of SHEOL, a Hebrew word that simply means death and/or the grave. Nothing happens there because death is the absolute cessation of life. But the words of fear-mongering persons suggest something God did not intend. It suggests a terrible experience that goes beyond that which God alone can grant. It suggests humans are endowed with some quality of personality that survives physical death. The Bible denies this....

"who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light" (1 Tim 6:16)

Only God is immortal.

Thus the assertion that there is a permanent quality of human life is false. Indeed even the terms used to describe it derives from pagan religions. But what does the Bible teach us?

In chapter one of book one, the Bible tells us that Eve & Adam were endowed at their creation with the image of God. Two chapters later we are told that both creatures LOST the image because they SINNED against God. It is this LOST IMAGE that condemns humanity to death.

"The soul that sins shall die." (Ezekiel 18:4) "The wages of SIN is death." (Romans 6:23)

Much has been written and argued about the IMAGE OF GOD, but after Genesis chapter 3 we do NOT see it mentioned again until we are informed as to where it resides. It resides in Christ Jesus, NOT US.

"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." Colossians 1:15

Therefore it is Christ Jesus who alone possesses immortal life and it is HE who gives it to those who accept HIM. Inasmuch as we are born again (1 Peter 1:23) in Christ Jesus, who cannot lie and who keeps His promises, we can hope for immortal life.

Immortal life is in Christ, NOT in us.

The nature of humanity is to DIE. That's the end of the story for those who refuse God's good mercy toward us, but it isn't necessarily our destiny. For God does not desire that anyone should die, but that all should come to repentance and be saved. Unfortunately as Jesus told us, most will deny and reject this most gracious gift.

Can a dead man be punished for anything? He cannot for the dead know nothing.
Can a living person enjoy the life God gives? As long as God lives so do His promises of immortality for those who accept Christ as their savior.

Nowhere in the Bible is it even remotely suggested that SINNERS are granted immortal life - even for the purpose of punishment.

SINNERS DIE. Therefore the stories of eternal torment are fear-mongering myth.

The IMAGE OF GOD is the source of immortality for humans. Christ alone possesses this quality. Inasmuch as we take Christ into our lives He shall share it with us.

Everybody else dies like dogs and cockroaches.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

bowman's outline on the trinity pdf https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

Friend, try reading something logical and cohesive. Your post was too long and lacks both.

 

[The Learner]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HELL.

There is no such thing as eternal torment in the Bible. It exists only in pagan mythology and fear-mongering ideology.

The root word for HELL doesn't come from Holy Writ. It's actually derived from the norse demi-god HEL who was said to be the female guardian of the underworld. HELL is a person in pagan myth, not a place. The root word for HADES is actually the Greek god of the underworld. Again the term refers to a person, not a place. Gehenna was the site of the pagan god MOLECH to whom the Hebrews once sacrificed their living children. Again, the term refers to a pagan personality, not a place. The use of these terms was employed by early translators of Hebrew & Greek text so as to employ fear-mongering attitudes to gain and keep church members. It is not consistent with Biblical context.

The notion of an afterlife or underworld began to infect western ideology in the days of ancient Egypt. It was thought that certain incantations and ceremonies would preserve not only the body but some aspect of the human personality. According to God's Word, there is no part of a human that survives physical death. Ergo, there is no eternal torment.

Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. (Ecclesiastes 3:19)

In the first book of the Bible, God tells us that we are finite, that death is the end of the story for all of us.

Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; (Genesis 6:3a)

In order for one to justify the false dogma of eternal torment one must ALTER the meaning and definition of common words. Words are used to teach truth but words can also be used to twist it into doctrines of demons. Death becomes something other than the end of physical life and the Lake of Fire assumes a quality fire never has in nature. God uses these words to teach physical and spiritual truth. Fire consumes everything as does the grave. There is no suggestion in any definition of the words 'death' and 'fire' that they mean something other than their simplest meaning - absolute termination and utter consumption.

The Old Testament speaks only of SHEOL, a Hebrew word that simply means death and/or the grave. Nothing happens there because death is the absolute cessation of life. But the words of fear-mongering persons suggest something God did not intend. It suggests a terrible experience that goes beyond that which God alone can grant. It suggests humans are endowed with some quality of personality that survives physical death. The Bible denies this....

"who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light" (1 Tim 6:16)

Only God is immortal.

Thus the assertion that there is a permanent quality of human life is false. Indeed even the terms used to describe it derives from pagan religions. But what does the Bible teach us?

In chapter one of book one, the Bible tells us that Eve & Adam were endowed at their creation with the image of God. Two chapters later we are told that both creatures LOST the image because they SINNED against God. It is this LOST IMAGE that condemns humanity to death.

"The soul that sins shall die." (Ezekiel 18:4) "The wages of SIN is death." (Romans 6:23)

Much has been written and argued about the IMAGE OF GOD, but after Genesis chapter 3 we do NOT see it mentioned again until we are informed as to where it resides. It resides in Christ Jesus, NOT US.

"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." Colossians 1:15

Therefore it is Christ Jesus who alone possesses immortal life and it is HE who gives it to those who accept HIM. Inasmuch as we are born again (1 Peter 1:23) in Christ Jesus, who cannot lie and who keeps His promises, we can hope for immortal life.

Immortal life is in Christ, NOT in us.

The nature of humanity is to DIE. That's the end of the story for those who refuse God's good mercy toward us, but it isn't necessarily our destiny. For God does not desire that anyone should die, but that all should come to repentance and be saved. Unfortunately as Jesus told us, most will deny and reject this most gracious gift.

Can a dead man be punished for anything? He cannot for the dead know nothing.
Can a living person enjoy the life God gives? As long as God lives so do His promises of immortality for those who accept Christ as their savior.

Nowhere in the Bible is it even remotely suggested that SINNERS are granted immortal life - even for the purpose of punishment.

SINNERS DIE. Therefore the stories of eternal torment are fear-mongering myth.

The IMAGE OF GOD is the source of immortality for humans. Christ alone possesses this quality. Inasmuch as we take Christ into our lives He shall share it with us.

Everybody else dies like dogs and cockroaches.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

I am sure you remember that Hell is the grave,

Isaiah 14:1-11
International Standard Version
Israel Mocks Babylon’s King
14 However, the Lord will have compassion on Jacob and will once again choose Israel. He will settle them in their own land, and foreigners will join them, affiliating themselves with the house of Jacob. 2 Many[a] nations will take them and bring them to their land and their own place. The house of Israel will put those nations[c] to conscripted labor[d] in the Lord’s land. They will take captive those who were their captors, and will rule continually[e] over those who oppressed them.

3 At the time,[f] when the Lord gives you rest from your suffering, turmoil, and the cruel bondage which they forced you to serve,[g] 4 you will lift up this song of mockery against[h] the king of Babylon:

“How the oppressor has come to an end!
How the attacker has ceased!
5 The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked,
the scepter of rulers,
6 that struck down peoples in anger
with unceasing blows,
that oppressed nations in fury
with relentless persecution.
7 The entire earth is at rest and peace;
its inhabitants[j] break into song.
8 Even the cypresses rejoice over you,
as do[k] the cedars of Lebanon, saying,
‘Now that you’ve been laid low,
no woodcutter comes up against us.’[l]

9 “The afterlife[m] below is all astir
to meet you when you arrive;[n]
it rouses up the spirits of the dead to greet you—
everyone who used to be world leaders.
It has raised up from their thrones
all who used to be kings of the nations.
10 In answer, all of them[o] will tell you,
‘You’ve also become as weak as we are!
You have become just like us!’
11 Your[p] pomp has been brought down to Sheol,[q]
along with the noise of your harps.
Maggots are spread out beneath you,
and worms are your covering.”[r]

 

[The Learner]

As for Eternal Punishment:

Matthew 25:31-46
Good News Translation
The Final Judgment
31 “When the Son of Man comes as King and all the angels with him, he will sit on his royal throne, 32 and the people of all the nations will be gathered before him. Then he will divide them into two groups, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the righteous people at his right and the others at his left. 34 Then the King will say to the people on his right, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world. 35 I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, 36 naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.’ 37 The righteous will then answer him, ‘When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink? 38 When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?’ 40 The King will reply, ‘I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these followers of mine, you did it for me!’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels! 42 I was hungry but you would not feed me, thirsty but you would not give me a drink; 43 I was a stranger but you would not welcome me in your homes, naked but you would not clothe me; I was sick and in prison but you would not take care of me.’ 44 Then they will answer him, ‘When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and we would not help you?’ 45 The King will reply, ‘I tell you, whenever you refused to help one of these least important ones, you refused to help me.’ 46 These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life.”

It is the same greek word for eternal and sentence. If you limit one you limit both life and punishment.


Matthew 25 - Click for Chapter

46 2532 [e] 46 Kai 46 Καὶ 46 And 46 Conj​

565 [e] apeleusontai ἀπελεύσονται will go away V-FIM-3P​

3778 [e] houtoi οὗτοι these DPro-NMP​

1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep​

2851 [e] kolasin κόλασιν punishment N-AFS​

166 [e] aiōnion αἰώνιον ; eternal Adj-AFS​

3588 [e] hoi οἱ - Art-NMP​

1161 [e] de δὲ but Conj​

1342 [e] dikaioi δίκαιοι the righteous Adj-NMP​

1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep​

2222 [e] zōēn ζωὴν life N-AFS​

166 [e] aiōnion αἰώνιον . eternal Adj-AFS​

 

[The Learner]

You can't pick just the parts you like! Have you read the warning in Rev about taking away things that God said?

Revelation 22 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

And that ain't good!

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Satan LOVES it when his messengers tell us there is no everlasting Hell fire!

Outlining I cor 15, we learn that all the dead get an immortal body, thus in eternal punishment are not burned to ashes and the punishment is ongoing for all of eternity.

42 This is how it will be when the dead are raised to life. When the body is buried, it is mortal; when raised, it will be immortal.
51-52 Listen to this secret truth: we shall not all die, but when the last trumpet sounds, we shall all be changed in an instant, as quickly as the blinking of an eye. For when the trumpet sounds, the dead will be raised, never to die again, and we shall all be changed. 53 For what is mortal must be changed into what is immortal; what will die must be changed into what cannot die. 54 So when this takes place, and the mortal has been changed into the immortal, then the scripture will come true: “Death is destroyed; victory is complete!”

The one who has an ear, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death (Revelation 2:11).

Unless spiritual death is reversed in this life, the result will be eternal death. This is unending separation between God and all who reject Him.

What Is the Second Death, or Eternal Death?

There is a third type of death in Scripture that is different from spiritual death and physical death. This is known as eternal death, or the second death. In

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[The Learner]

its just the opposite. He loves it when false religion shows God to be the worst sadist ever by lying about him because they live in darkness and cannot understand reality.

A Study of Eternal Punishment | Precept Austin

www.preceptaustin.org

A Study of Eternal Punishment | Precept Austin

www.preceptaustin.org

A Study of Eternal Punishment | Precept Austin

www.preceptaustin.org

A Study of Eternal Punishment | Precept Austin

www.preceptaustin.org

"

The Incorruptible Spirit​

Some allege that the idea of man possessing a “soul” (or “spirit”) that survives the body in a conscious state, is a relic of paganism. That is not true. Consider the following:

• Though an enemy may terminate one’s bodily existence, he cannot destroy his soul (Mt. 10:28). This could not have been said if human beings were entirely mortal.
• Peter spoke of the need to clothe one’s “spirit” with “incorruptible” apparel (1 Pet. 3:4). This imagery would hardly be appropriate if the human spirit itself were corruptible.
• In Revelation 6, John saw a vision of martyrs underneath the altar of God. The text specifically affirms that John saw “the souls of them that had been slain” (v. 9). “Soul” cannot be a figure of speech for the entire person, because John saw the “souls of them” that were slain. Moreover, these souls were under the altar of God, but their dead bodies were still on earth. The resurrection had not transpired. Additionally, these souls were conscious, as evinced by the fact that they: spoke (crying out to the Lord); wondered (“How long, O God?”); remembered (their fellow saints still on earth); reasoned (concluding that the punishment of evil men is just); and, received a preliminary reward (white robes) in anticipation of the final victory (vv. 10-11).

The Consciousness of the Wicked​

While it may be granted that the faithful survive the death of the body, does that premise hold true for the lost? Are they conscious in their estrangement from the Creator?

• The Psalmist once described a particularly distressing time in his life as being like “Sheol,” which, in this context, represents the state of punishment for lost people immediately following death. He noted that it was an existence of “pain” where he “found trouble and sorrow” (Psa. 116:3). Each of these terms suggests consciousness.
• Similarly, Jonah characterized his tormenting hours in the great fish’s belly as like being in “Sheol.” He observed that it was an environment of “affliction” (Jon. 2:2).
• Daniel wrote concerning the condemned who are raised from the dust to a state of “shame and everlasting contempt” (Dan. 12:2).
• Jesus declared that those who die unprepared will be subjected to “eternal punishment” (Mt. 25:46). “Punishment” clearly implies awareness; this is why the New World Translation (Watch Tower Society) changes “punishment” to “cutting-off.” Observe also that the punishment of the unbeliever is as enduring as the “life” (fellowship with God) of the believer.
• Paul does not hesitate to affirm that those who “know not God,” and those who “obey not the gospel,” will “suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might” (2 Thess. 1:9). The term “destruction” does not connote annihilation. Rather, it is “the loss of a life of blessedness after death, future misery” (Thayer 1958, 443).
• The book of Revelation describes the anguished fate of those who experience the “wrath of God.” They are tormented forever and ever (14:10-11)."
• The Doctrine of Eternal Punishment

 

[The Learner]

"Every New Testament author clearly communicates hell as punishment. The punishment is deserved, consists of suffering, and is eternal. For clear examples, see Mark 9:42–48, Matthew 5:20–30 and chapters 24–25, Luke 16:19–31, 2 Thessalonians 1:5–10, Hebrews 10:27–31, James 4:12 and 5:1–5, 2 Peter 2:4–17, Jude 13–23, and Revelation 20:10–15."

Contemporary Challenges to Eternal Punishment - The Gospel Coalition

The two main contemporary challenges to the doctrine of eternal punishment in hell are universalism and annihilationism.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[The Learner]

Hell as Endless Punishment - The Gospel Coalition

Hell is a place of eternal, conscious torment for everyone who does not trust in Jesus Christ. Hell involves final separation from God’s mercy.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[Keiw]

A Study of Eternal Punishment | Precept Austin

www.preceptaustin.org

A Study of Eternal Punishment | Precept Austin

www.preceptaustin.org

A Study of Eternal Punishment | Precept Austin

www.preceptaustin.org

A Study of Eternal Punishment | Precept Austin

www.preceptaustin.org

"

The Incorruptible Spirit​

Some allege that the idea of man possessing a “soul” (or “spirit”) that survives the body in a conscious state, is a relic of paganism. That is not true. Consider the following:

• Though an enemy may terminate one’s bodily existence, he cannot destroy his soul (Mt. 10:28). This could not have been said if human beings were entirely mortal.
• Peter spoke of the need to clothe one’s “spirit” with “incorruptible” apparel (1 Pet. 3:4). This imagery would hardly be appropriate if the human spirit itself were corruptible.
• In Revelation 6, John saw a vision of martyrs underneath the altar of God. The text specifically affirms that John saw “the souls of them that had been slain” (v. 9). “Soul” cannot be a figure of speech for the entire person, because John saw the “souls of them” that were slain. Moreover, these souls were under the altar of God, but their dead bodies were still on earth. The resurrection had not transpired. Additionally, these souls were conscious, as evinced by the fact that they: spoke (crying out to the Lord); wondered (“How long, O God?”); remembered (their fellow saints still on earth); reasoned (concluding that the punishment of evil men is just); and, received a preliminary reward (white robes) in anticipation of the final victory (vv. 10-11).

The Consciousness of the Wicked​

While it may be granted that the faithful survive the death of the body, does that premise hold true for the lost? Are they conscious in their estrangement from the Creator?

• The Psalmist once described a particularly distressing time in his life as being like “Sheol,” which, in this context, represents the state of punishment for lost people immediately following death. He noted that it was an existence of “pain” where he “found trouble and sorrow” (Psa. 116:3). Each of these terms suggests consciousness.
• Similarly, Jonah characterized his tormenting hours in the great fish’s belly as like being in “Sheol.” He observed that it was an environment of “affliction” (Jon. 2:2).
• Daniel wrote concerning the condemned who are raised from the dust to a state of “shame and everlasting contempt” (Dan. 12:2).
• Jesus declared that those who die unprepared will be subjected to “eternal punishment” (Mt. 25:46). “Punishment” clearly implies awareness; this is why the New World Translation (Watch Tower Society) changes “punishment” to “cutting-off.” Observe also that the punishment of the unbeliever is as enduring as the “life” (fellowship with God) of the believer.
• Paul does not hesitate to affirm that those who “know not God,” and those who “obey not the gospel,” will “suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might” (2 Thess. 1:9). The term “destruction” does not connote annihilation. Rather, it is “the loss of a life of blessedness after death, future misery” (Thayer 1958, 443).
• The book of Revelation describes the anguished fate of those who experience the “wrath of God.” They are tormented forever and ever (14:10-11)."
• The Doctrine of Eternal Punishment

Sheol( Hebrew) translates the grave=Hades( Greek)

Jesus said those walking the broad and spacious path to destruction--Not eternal life to suffer. It was symbolic.

Ecclesiastes 9:5--The dead know nothing at all.

 

[Brakelite]

Hell as Endless Punishment - The Gospel Coalition

Hell is a place of eternal, conscious torment for everyone who does not trust in Jesus Christ. Hell involves final separation from God’s mercy.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

You are looking at scripture through the eyes of your own set viewpoint. Let me see if I can encourage you to view the topic from another perspective... The character of God. Throughout human history, Satan has encouraged all manner of evil to be prepared by men under his control. One of the very worst was the Roman crucifixion. They had perfected it to an art form. It was designed to maximize the pain while at the same time prolonging life. Eternal torment is an exaggerated form of crucifixion, and dictators and evil men for 1000s of years have invented the own versions of the above... Today through drugs, chemicals, psychology, hypnosis, and all manner of evil means... But they are all the most abominable and hateful of practices and the exact opposite to the character of God who is love, and whose character of love (which cannot under any circumstances be compromised) absolutely forbids Him from undertaking the ultimate of practices that even mortal sinful men without the spirit of God following through their minds and hearts find deplorable. But Christians who do have three Spirit of God, how can they even dare to charge their Savior and Creator with a practise that replicates the worst of behaviors of man? Satan has sought from the time he first rebelled to destroy God's reputation by distorting who He is. That he is doing so successfully even in the church, is deplorable. See where I'm coming from? Can a God with such a purpose be called a God of love?

 

[Jack]

Symbolism for the following---- As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those destroyed in the lake of fire miss each day, miss each day of Gods love, it never ends. Likened to be an eternal suffering. They traded 70-100years of an unrepented sinful life and will miss trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of life, never sick, not aging like now, never without.
Gods justice scales = perfect balance-an eye for an eye God taught. Uncorruptable.--So for 70-100 years of an unrepented sinful life God could not nor would not condemn one to trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years of suffering. There is no balance in that scenario. Only a sadist would create such a reality. God set before all-(Deut 30:19= LIFE or DEATH) both will be everlasting.

How utterly evasive! You totally avoid the Scriptures on Hell fire / everlasting fire / forever and ever.

 

[Jack]

Sheol( Hebrew) translates the grave=Hades( Greek)

Jesus said those walking the broad and spacious path to destruction--Not eternal life to suffer. It was symbolic.

Ecclesiastes 9:5--The dead know nothing at all.

Who told you that you're a Hebrew expert? Kingdom Hall maybe?

 

[Phoneman777]

bowman's outline on the trinity pdf https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

Friend, try reading something logical and cohesive. Your post was too long and lacks both.

His post was spot on, and of necessary length -- because the errors of the Immortal Soul/Eternal Torment crowd are long.

Every single "proof" text offered in defense of it can easily be shown to actually support the truth of "mortal man" and that Jesus "only hath immortality".

 

[Phoneman777]

Hell as Endless Punishment - The Gospel Coalition

Hell is a place of eternal, conscious torment for everyone who does not trust in Jesus Christ. Hell involves final separation from God’s mercy.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

Yes, the punishment of the wicked is endless...but what is the punishment? IT'S DEATH!!!

 

[Phoneman777]

As for Eternal Punishment:

Matthew 25:31-46
Good News Translation
The Final Judgment
31 “When the Son of Man comes as King and all the angels with him, he will sit on his royal throne, 32 and the people of all the nations will be gathered before him. Then he will divide them into two groups, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the righteous people at his right and the others at his left. 34 Then the King will say to the people on his right, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world. 35 I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes, 36 naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.’ 37 The righteous will then answer him, ‘When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink? 38 When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?’ 40 The King will reply, ‘I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these followers of mine, you did it for me!’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels! 42 I was hungry but you would not feed me, thirsty but you would not give me a drink; 43 I was a stranger but you would not welcome me in your homes, naked but you would not clothe me; I was sick and in prison but you would not take care of me.’ 44 Then they will answer him, ‘When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and we would not help you?’ 45 The King will reply, ‘I tell you, whenever you refused to help one of these least important ones, you refused to help me.’ 46 These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life.”

It is the same greek word for eternal and sentence. If you limit one you limit both life and punishment.


Matthew 25 - Click for Chapter

46 2532 [e] 46 Kai 46 Καὶ 46 And 46 Conj​

565 [e] apeleusontai ἀπελεύσονται will go away V-FIM-3P​

3778 [e] houtoi οὗτοι these DPro-NMP​

1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep​

2851 [e] kolasin κόλασιν punishment N-AFS​

166 [e] aiōnion αἰώνιον ; eternal Adj-AFS​

3588 [e] hoi οἱ - Art-NMP​

1161 [e] de δὲ but Conj​

1342 [e] dikaioi δίκαιοι the righteous Adj-NMP​

1519 [e] eis εἰς into Prep​

2222 [e] zōēn ζωὴν life N-AFS​

166 [e] aiōnion αἰώνιον . eternal Adj-AFS​

Yes, the punishment for the wicked is eternal....but what is the punishment? Eternal torment in flames? You answer is in Romans 6:23, which says it's DEATH!

 

[Phoneman777]

"Was Jesus Eternally Tormented?"

Honestly that makes no sense at all! That sounds like Copeland heresy. Maybe Muslim?

How about you just accept the truth?

If Jesus is not at this moment suffering in the fires of eternal torment, then "Christians" need to stop falsely claiming they've been saved from the fires of eternal torment.

 

[Keiw]

How utterly evasive! You totally avoid the Scriptures on Hell fire / everlasting fire / forever and ever.

I was introducing you to the true living God instead of the sadist you are taught.

 

[Keiw]

How utterly evasive! You totally avoid the Scriptures on Hell fire / everlasting fire / forever and ever.

I was introducing you to the true living God instead of the sadist you are taught.

Who told you that you're a Hebrew expert? Kingdom Hall maybe?

Its fact. Every scholar on earth knows its fact.

 

[The Learner]

You are looking at scripture through the eyes of your own set viewpoint. Let me see if I can encourage you to view the topic from another perspective... The character of God. Throughout human history, Satan has encouraged all manner of evil to be prepared by men under his control. One of the very worst was the Roman crucifixion. They had perfected it to an art form. It was designed to maximize the pain while at the same time prolonging life. Eternal torment is an exaggerated form of crucifixion, and dictators and evil men for 1000s of years have invented the own versions of the above... Today through drugs, chemicals, psychology, hypnosis, and all manner of evil means... But they are all the most abominable and hateful of practices and the exact opposite to the character of God who is love, and whose character of love (which cannot under any circumstances be compromised) absolutely forbids Him from undertaking the ultimate of practices that even mortal sinful men without the spirit of God following through their minds and hearts find deplorable. But Christians who do have three Spirit of God, how can they even dare to charge their Savior and Creator with a practise that replicates the worst of behaviors of man? Satan has sought from the time he first rebelled to destroy God's reputation by distorting who He is. That he is doing so successfully even in the church, is deplorable. See where I'm coming from? Can a God with such a purpose be called a God of love?

I am a well trained historian, and you have no clue how silly you sense of history is. Your post is illogical and incoherent.

 

[The Learner]

Who told you that you're a Hebrew expert? Kingdom Hall maybe?

Hi Brother, friend Jack, it is clear that the dead do not know what is going on the surface of the earth from the Ecc proof texts.

This text below proves beyond doubt of any honest person that they sleep and are awake like we on the surface are.

Isaiah 14:1-11​

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Easy-to-Read Version​

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Israel Will Return Home​

14 The Lord will again show his love to Jacob. He will again choose the people of Israel. He will give them their land. Then the non-Israelites[a] will join the Israelites, and both will become one family—Jacob’s family. 2 Those nations will bring the Israelites back to their land. The men and women from the other nations will become slaves to Israel. In the past, those people forced the Israelites to become their slaves. But in the future the Israelites will defeat those nations, and Israel will then rule over them in the Lord’s land. 3 In the past, you were slaves. People forced you to work hard. But the Lord will take away the hard work you were forced to do.

A Song About the King of Babylon​

4 At that time you will begin to sing this song about the king of Babylon:
The king was cruel when he ruled us,
but now his rule is finished.
5 The Lord breaks the scepter of evil rulers;
he takes away their power.
6 In anger, the king of Babylon beat the people.
He never stopped beating them.
He was an evil ruler who ruled in anger.
He never stopped hurting people.
7 But now, the whole country rests and is quiet.
Now the people begin to celebrate.
8 You were an evil king,
and now you are finished.
Even the pine trees are happy.
The cedar trees of Lebanon rejoice.
They say, “The king chopped us down,
but now the king has fallen,
and he will never stand again.”
9 The place of death is excited
that you are coming.
Sheol is waking the spirits
of all the leaders of the earth for you.
Sheol is making the kings stand up
from their thrones to meet you.
10 They will make fun of you, saying,
“Now you are as dead as we are.
Now you are just like us.”
11 Your pride has been sent down to Sheol.
The music from your harps announces the coming of your proud spirit.
Maggots will be the bed you lie on,
and other worms will cover your body like a blanket.

 

[Keiw]

You are looking at scripture through the eyes of your own set viewpoint. Let me see if I can encourage you to view the topic from another perspective... The character of God. Throughout human history, Satan has encouraged all manner of evil to be prepared by men under his control. One of the very worst was the Roman crucifixion. They had perfected it to an art form. It was designed to maximize the pain while at the same time prolonging life. Eternal torment is an exaggerated form of crucifixion, and dictators and evil men for 1000s of years have invented the own versions of the above... Today through drugs, chemicals, psychology, hypnosis, and all manner of evil means... But they are all the most abominable and hateful of practices and the exact opposite to the character of God who is love, and whose character of love (which cannot under any circumstances be compromised) absolutely forbids Him from undertaking the ultimate of practices that even mortal sinful men without the spirit of God following through their minds and hearts find deplorable. But Christians who do have three Spirit of God, how can they even dare to charge their Savior and Creator with a practise that replicates the worst of behaviors of man? Satan has sought from the time he first rebelled to destroy God's reputation by distorting who He is. That he is doing so successfully even in the church, is deplorable. See where I'm coming from? Can a God with such a purpose be called a God of love?

Yes it was sick to kill one like crucifixion. 99% have been ruled by satan from the beginning, same today. 2Cor 4:4