I guess you have never read much about how treatise work between nations when they jointly declare war against other nations? They give themselves the power and authority to do so.
"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."
Do you not understand how Satan can promise people one thing, but what they get is something entirely different?
Uh. This is hurting my brain. So...you guys, who insist we must take everything that is written literally, actually want me to believe that this passage is actually saying that 'giving authority' to these guys, is in reality, meaning that they're being defeated?
I mean. Sure. I totally get that. I mean, its the theme of the whole book, right? God gives Satan and his players just a short time to do their thing.
But, I mean...come on.
Literally? Here's the 'literal' meaning: "power to influence or command thought, opinion, or behavior"
Now...either you believe a person needs to read the thing 'literally', or you recognize the fact that things can hold meanings other than a strictly literal reading. Metaphor, symbolism, analogy. All scary ideas, I'm sure, but things we use all the time in our own lives and language; our stories and communication, that somehow doesn't take away from expressing certain truths.
I suppose the big question really is: do you think God is able to use whatever form he likes to communicate his truths to us? Is he limited in this regard? Do you think he is incapable of communicating his truths in anything but a strictly literal word sense?
Chapters 17 and 18 are describing Armageddon. Has nothing to do with literalism, nor chronological order. 17 and 18 are parenthetical descriptions of the 7 vials.
I still have many open-ended questions in regards to Revelation. But...I don't know if I can buy the idea it must be read in chronological order. I mean...can we really believe that Armageddon goes down at the end of Chapter 16, followed by a voice from heaven declaring "it is finished!", and then we see the biggest earthquake the world has ever seen, where the mountains flee away and all the cities of man fall.
And then, next chapter, it almost calmly goes on and goes "oh...by the way John, check out this thing over here...there's this city and this religious system, and they're working together, and this stuff goes down..."
Really? Didn't all cities collapse, on account of the incredible world ending earthquake? Weren't we told 'it is finished'?
Anyway...it doesn't fly for me.
If you want wooden literalism, read historist who try to claim they know the exact historical context of Revelation.
If after 42 months those 10 horns don't have a kingdom, when do you think Satan is going to give them one? How about the earth, after Satan drives God away? Do you think they would join Satan to fight if they have read the book of Revelation, and read how it actually ends?
I'm afraid I have no idea what you're saying, or the point your making here. Sorry.
Your literalism thinks they have to have kingdoms and only have those kingdoms for 1 hour. That is not what that verse says. The term one hour is found a couple other places in both chapters. It is one hour of destruction. Are you going to say it just means indefinite destruction for years?
Well...perhaps you're not following me terribly well. Firstly, I'm trying to point out that numbers are not always used literally in Revelation. Here would be one example. Which you seem to agree with.
Second...to read into "giving them authority" as "destruction" is rather priceless.
Even someone like me, who is happy to see the symbolism rife within the book, is happy to accept it is what it says it is. These "kings" are given authority for a time to persecute God's people. We see this corroborated in Daniel 11 and 12 and how the AC pursues the saints.
We know it is only for a season, one ordained by God, but for that season, those kings will have very real authority on the earth, just as Satan has had very real authority upon the earth.
How is it literalism if I interpret that verse as Satan promising 10 influential humans 10 kingdoms, if they defeat the Lamb?
It's not. At all. I'm not sure what it is. I suppose it's an assumption over what gets the 'kings' on board.
Scripture already points out that is what they attempt to do:
"These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."
How many Armageddons will there be when Nations come together to fight the Lamb? You are the one trying to put plural "Armageddons" into chronological order. Not me.
No. No I don't believe I was attempting to put plural "Armageddons in there. Perhaps that might be the case if you then also insist on keeping to a chronological order...but I don't believe I was making that claim.
We know the kings fight against the Lamb. We know that everyone who doesn't have their name in his book of Life will, one way or the other, rebel against him. For what reason, we don't know. Pride, ultimately, I suppose...it is the default emotion of the human heart.
I don't totally understand what you are trying to get across, I'm afraid...and I'm not sure you totally understand what I'm saying. So...I'm not sure our conversation will be totally edifying in that regard. I suppose we can muddle onwards a bit...but it doesn't seem all that beneficial if we're talking past one another.