New Covenant only for Jews?

[covenantee]

My dear covenantee,

How many verses do you need? Or perhaps you don't think Jesus giving Himself to us to eat and drink counts as a feast.. ?

Here is one more for you:

Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Pax et Bonum

Your own source does not describe it as a "feast".

Why do you?

 

[Illuminator]

On post #888 – with regard to the false quote from Bellarmine - YOU stated emphatically:
“EVERY POPE has therefore believed it.”

Soooooso, why don’t YOU put your money where your mouth is and give me the VERBSATIM QUITES from EVERY Pope?
You’re big on demanding “verbatim quotes” – yet you never seem to be able to do this.

In the meantime - I'll hunt down the document . . .

I did several searches on Google, with and without quotation marks, searched Vatican documents, and...

De Conciliorum Auctoriatate does not exist!

coventee!

 

[covenantee]

I did several searches on Google, with and without quotation marks, searched Vatican documents, and...

De Conciliorum Auctoriatate does not exist!

coventee!

This will be entertaining. You're denying what is clearly part of the historical RC doctrinal archive trove.

Have a good time in your friend BOL's woodshed.

Thanks for the guffaws.

de conciliorum auctoriatate - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

 

[Brakelite]

Why does it say the "New Covenant" Jesus made is only for the Jews?

Hebrews 8:8 - But God found fault with the people and said: “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

And the people of Israel are....

 

[Brakelite]

The ENTIRE Catholic (universal) Church is Apostolic.

You’re under the delusion that SOME dioceses existed outside of the Universal Church.
This is what happens when you swallow the writings of people like your false prophetess instead of ACTUAL Church history.

As for Patrick – it doesn’t matter to me if you reject the historical facts about his being Catholic because it is just another cowardly DODGE so you won’t have to address the fact that you LIED about the Church ONLY translating the Bible into Latin so nobody could read it.

Whenever you get busted – you CHANGE the subject and move the goalposts.

Actually it was your claim that Caedmon translated the Bible into the local language. He didn't. He used the already locally translated scriptures for his poetry and music. The scriptures were translated into Itala by the Celtic church, not the Catholic.
As to my contention that the Catholic Church retained the Latin for the purpose of exclusivity and power over it's interpretation, I still stand by it, based on your church's history in opposing the scriptures and destroying them and those who had them at every opportunity. If you want examples, do some genuine reading and not just selective processing.
With you calling me a liar, and Illuminator calling me a demon, it seems I'm hitting all the right chords. And nerves.

 

[Brakelite]

No, it was RECOGNIZED as being the superior Church by the end of the FIRST CENTURY - and UNANIMOUSLY recognized by the Early Church Fathers.

Put down your E.G. White drivel and STUDY your history.
The Church was being PERSECUTED at the time by Rome at the time we first see the description of “Superior” Church.

A distinction has long been recognized between the northern Italian peninsula and the central part, so that for more than one thousand years the bishoprics in northern Italy were called Italic, while those in central Italy were named Roman. Or, as Frederick Nolan says, in speaking of an early Latin Bible in this territory: “The author perceived, without any labor of inquiry, that it [Italic Bible] derived its name from that diocese which has been termed the Italic, as contradistringuished from the Roman.”11 The city of Milan in the northern part of the Italian peninsula has always been one of the most famous cities of history. At times it has been a rival to Rome. Several Roman emperors, abandoning the city on the banks of the Tiber, fixed their capital here. It was a famous meeting place for the East and the West. One author states that the religious influence of Milan was regarded with respect, and that its authority was especially felt in Gaul and in Spain.12 It was the chief center of the Celts who lived on the Italian side of the Alps.13 Before it could come under the dominant influence of the Roman bishop, the Gothic armies had completed their conquest of Italy as well as France. These newcomers, who had been converted to Christ more than one hundred years previously, held fast to the usages and customs of the primitive church and did no harm to Milan.14 Since the Goths granted religious freedom to their subjects, Milan profited by it. When from all parts of Europe newly chosen bishops came to Rome to be consecrated, none appeared from the Italic dioceses of Milan and Turin. They did not join in the procession. In fact, for many years after 553 there was a widespread schism in northern Italy and adjacent lands between Rome and the bishops of nine provinces under the leadership of the bishop of Milan who renounced fellowship with Rome to become autonomous. They had been alienated by the famous decree of the “Three Chapters,” passed in 553 by the Council of Constantinople, condemning three great leaders of the Church of the East.15 The people of this region knew the straight truth. They did not believe in the infallibility of the pope and did not consider that being out of communion with him was to be out of fellowship with the church.16 They held that their own ordination was as efficacious as the pretended apostolic succession of the bishop of Rome. While the Papacy was bringing much of Europe under her control, the two dioceses of Milan and Turin continued independent. It was unbearable to the Papacy that, in the very land in which was her throne, there should be a Mordecai in the gate. Two powerful forces nullified all her efforts to annex the Milan territory. First, the presence of the Lombard kings, unconquered until about 800, assured religious tolerance there. Moreover, the Lombards, like the Goths before them, rejected so many innovations brought in by Rome that they never admitted the papal bishops of Italy to a seat in their legislative councils.17 Therefore, they were promptly called Arians, the name given by Rome to her opponents.

For references and further reading see...
Nolan, The Integrity of the Greek Vulgate, Preface, p. 17
Gordon, “World Healers,” pp. 237, 238.
The Catholic Encyclopedia, art. “Milan.”
Ayer, A Source Book for Ancient Church History, pp. 596, 597.
Mosheim, Institutes of Ecclesiastical History.

 

[Johann]

YOU obviously don’t,

You know, I don't mind the mud slinging, but it is serious business to call others that they don't "have" the Holy Spirit.
What are you selling that the others won't buy?

J.

 

[Johann]

Sooooooo, I presented a solid Scriptural, linguistic and historical argument for the realty of the Eucharist in the Church – and ALL you can come back with is more denial??

Can you explain WHERE Jesus stated it was merely “symbolic”??

Can you explain WHY so many disciples left Him that day and NEVER followed Him again??

Can you explain WHY the Romans and Jews accused the Early Church of being “Cannibals”??

Do you have ANY evidence - Scriptural or oitheerwise for your position??

Joh 6:51 I [Myself] am this Living Bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this Bread, he will live forever; and also the Bread that I shall give for the life of the world is My flesh (body).
Joh 6:52 Then the Jews angrily contended with one another, saying, How is He able to give us His flesh to eat?
Joh 6:53 And Jesus said to them, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, you cannot have any life in you unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood [unless you appropriate His life and the saving merit of His blood].
Joh 6:54 He who feeds on My flesh and drinks My blood has (possesses now) eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.
Joh 6:55 For My flesh is true and genuine food, and My blood is true and genuine drink.
Joh 6:56 He who feeds on My flesh and drinks My blood dwells continually in Me, and I [in like manner dwell continually] in him.
Joh 6:57 Just as the living Father sent Me and I live by (through, because of) the Father, even so whoever continues to feed on Me [whoever takes Me for his food and is nourished by Me] shall [in his turn] live through and because of Me.
Joh 6:58 This is the Bread that came down from heaven. It is not like the manna which our forefathers ate, and yet died; he who takes this Bread for his food shall live forever.
Joh 6:59 He said these things in a synagogue while He was teaching at Capernaum.
AMP

 

[Johann]

My dear covenantee,

How many verses do you need? Or perhaps you don't think Jesus giving Himself to us to eat and drink counts as a feast.. ?

Here is one more for you:

Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Pax et Bonum

so he that eateth me; in a spiritual sense, by faith.

The phrase of eating the Messiah was a familiar one, and well known to the Jews; though these Capernaites cavilled at it, and called it an hard saying.

"Says Rab, the Israelites shall "eat" the years of the Messiah: (the gloss on it is, the fulness which the Israelites shall have in those days says R. Joseph, it is certainly so; but who shall "eat him?" shall Chellek and Billek (two judges in Sodom) אכלי לה, "eat him?"

contrary to the words of R. Hillell, who says, Israel shall have no Messiah, for אכלוהו, "they ate him" in the days of Hezekiah (y);''
that is, they enjoyed him then; for he thought that Hezekiah was the Messiah; but that was the doctor's mistake.

The Messiah now was, and to be enjoyed and eaten by faith in a spiritual sense, and everyone that does so,
even he shall live by me: such have their life from Christ; he is their food, on which they lived; and by him they are continued, upheld, and preserved in their spiritual life, and are by him brought to the life of glory: or they live "for", or "because of" him, as the above versions render it; they derive their life from him, and because he lives, they live also; and they live to his glory, and will do so to all eternity.
(y) T. Bab. Sanhedrin, fol. 98. 2. & 99. 1.
Gill

 

[Marvelloustime]

In the new heavens and new earth , the only entrance in, the only ones in that kingdom , WILL be
those who BELIEVED IN JESUS . Pope francis saves none and damns many as does most all the protestant realm now .
Go ye and preach the gospel to all nations . Even peter was told to preach it to the gentiles , aka the house of cornelious .
The definition of a pipe dream . A dream that though it told of great beauty and wonders was false .
Did i not say i was a stickler to the orginal life saving , life changing gospel .
If good works had given cornelious access into the kingdom , then why SEND PETER .
I know our pastors are trying so hard to give mankind some kind of hope .
But if we aint preaching the dire necessity of Christ , THERE IS NO HOPE .
That is right . YOU and all heard me today . IF ONE BELIEVETH NOT they will be damned . anyone want to be damned .
I didnt think so . LET JESUS GET PREACHED . I was in boyscotts once , our leaders
were huge on preaching do good to the poor , take care of the elderly , do many good deeds . DIDNT SAVE THEM NOR ME .
JESUS DID . FAITH IN HE ALONE . we better get busy preaching that , cause the night cometh
when the door will shut and then many will holler
BUT LORD didnt we do many good works in your name , didnt we do
BUT THE DOOR wont open . We must stick to preaching JESUS . As i am sure you would agree .

The reminders flood in.

Let’s hear again from our brother @amigo de christo, who will help us to understand the dire necessity of Jesus Christ.

All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God .
There is none that are righteous .
Not one that has not sinned .
There is no salvation in any other religion .
And good works without faith in Christ saves none .
Just as faith without works is dead
so is works without faith .
Only one way , only one Name whereby one may be saved .
That is JESUS CHRIST .
That if you shall confess him by Mouth and believe that God has raised Him
from the dead you shall be saved .
When speaking to nicodemus , JESUS
said that GOD so loved the world that HE sent HIS only begotten Son
that who so ever BELIEVES in Him shall be saved .
He , JESUS , goes on to say but the who believes not shall be damned .
Let us also examine a man named cornelious .
In acts chapter ten we see a man
who had did many good works and many prayers unto God .
He was a gentile who prayed to the one true God of abraham .
He was in his house praying to God when an angel appeared
to Him and told him he had been heard for his many good alms and prayers .
Yet Even that man needed to hear one thing
in order to be saved . And he was told to send men unto Peter
who would tell him the words He needed to hear .
Whereby He and his household could be saved . IT was the glorious gospel .
God has chosen to save the people by the preaching of the gospel .
That all who do believe would be saved .
There simply is no other way , no other name whereby we must be saved .
Paul warned the church not to heed anyone , not even an angel
that brought any other gospel .
John said that if one brings not that gospel do not let them into your house
or bid them god speed .
So why do so many today entertain this other gospel
which is no gospel . The one that says
muslims , buddists , hindus atheists and etc
That if they simply do good they are saved . ITS A LIE .
And it is another jesus they preach , another false gospel
they do bring .
Satan knows how to deceive and he has no love for this world .
He lies to them through men even within christendom .
Let no man , woman or child enter into this lie .
Rather teach that to be saved ONE MUST BELIEVE in CHRIST JESUS .
All else is but vanity and it cannot save .
And if a man tells you HE knows JESUS
and that JESUS is just another way to GOD and that these other religions
have their way too . THAT MAN does not KNOW CHRIST
and is a liar . I say this out of great love for all peoples .
For I truly desire not one soul to perish .
The gospel that saves is real simple .
CALL upon the name of the LORD JESUS and ye shall be saved .
And if one truly belongs to Christ they won’t
call evil good and good evil . JESUS is not the minister of sin .
And we ought not to be either .

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬



12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬


6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians‬ ‭1:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬


9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
2 John 1:9-11 KJV


14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John‬ ‭3:14-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬


11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.
12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Acts‬ ‭11:11-17 ‭KJV‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬

 

[Davy]

Hi Mike -
Heb 8:8 does not say “only”.

Jesus selected Jews to first teach to Jews of a new covenant.
Thereafter Jesus directed His Disciples to teach to all the Tribes of Israel.
Thereafter Paul was directed to teach to the Gentiles and Jews.

Not fully accurate.

In Acts 9, Jesus said He chose Paul to take The Gospel to...

1. the Gentiles
2. to the kings
3. to the children of Israel

That no.3 MEANS ALL 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL, not just Jews.

Paul was actually from an area (Cilicia) where many of the ten lost tribes of Israel were scattered to (as Scythians and Cimmerians). So Paul, at the start of his ministry, only briefly preached The Gospel to Jews in the holy lands (per Book of Acts).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Verbatim from Brownlee:

"Bellarmine De concil. Auctor. lib. ii. cap. 17. teaches the genuine popery, namely; that "the supreme pontiff' is simply and absolutely above the church ; and above a general council. &c.'' He adds the following, which no one can clear from the charge of blasphemy : " All the names which in the scriptures are applied to Christ, proving him to be above the church, are, in like manner, applied to the pontiff:"

If Bellarmine did not make those claims, who did?

It is simple logic that if no popes have ever renounced these claims, then they do not disagree with them.

No "VERBSATIM QUITES" are required.

And no verbatim quotes are required.

Just as i thought - another cowardly hit-and-run post.
I KNEW that when I asked you for proof of your asinine claim - you would collapse like a deck of cards.

And, if the Pope spent his days battling against heretical and blasphemous misquotes - it would take him MONTHS to address the ones on THIS forum alone . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

This will be entertaining. You're denying what is clearly part of the historical RC doctrinal archive trove.

Have a good time in your friend BOL's woodshed.

Thanks for the guffaws.

de conciliorum auctoriatate - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

The utter stupidity of this claim is astounding . . .

This false claim of yours was NEVER a point of doctrine. Even if your false quote from a false document of Bellarmine were true - He NEVER had the aythority to formulate or define doctrine.

So, you're either a LIAR - or just plain stupid.
Take your pick . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You know, I don't mind the mud slinging, but it is serious business to call others that they don't "have" the Holy Spirit.
What are you selling that the others won't buy?

J.

I'm not "selling" anything.
I just have a ZERO tolerance for LIES.

I don't have a problem with anybody who "disagrees" with the Catholic Church. That's between them and God.
I DO have a problem with LIARS - as does God:
Rev. 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, AND ALL LIARS, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

 

[BreadOfLife]

Joh 6:51 I [Myself] am this Living Bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this Bread, he will live forever; and also the Bread that I shall give for the life of the world is My flesh (body).
Joh 6:52 Then the Jews angrily contended with one another, saying, How is He able to give us His flesh to eat?
Joh 6:53 And Jesus said to them, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, you cannot have any life in you unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood [unless you appropriate His life and the saving merit of His blood].
Joh 6:54 He who feeds on My flesh and drinks My blood has (possesses now) eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.
Joh 6:55 For My flesh is true and genuine food, and My blood is true and genuine drink.
Joh 6:56 He who feeds on My flesh and drinks My blood dwells continually in Me, and I [in like manner dwell continually] in him.
Joh 6:57 Just as the living Father sent Me and I live by (through, because of) the Father, even so whoever continues to feed on Me [whoever takes Me for his food and is nourished by Me] shall [in his turn] live through and because of Me.
Joh 6:58 This is the Bread that came down from heaven. It is not like the manna which our forefathers ate, and yet died; he who takes this Bread for his food shall live forever.
Joh 6:59 He said these things in a synagogue while He was teaching at Capernaum.
AMP

Sooooo, did you have point to make here?
All you did was paste part of the Bread of Life Discourse - which doesn't address ANY of the questions I asked back in post #680.

 

[Jim B]

The reminders flood in.

Let’s hear again from our brother @amigo de christo, who will help us to understand the dire necessity of Jesus Christ.

All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God .
There is none that are righteous .
Not one that has not sinned .
There is no salvation in any other religion .
And good works without faith in Christ saves none .
Just as faith without works is dead
so is works without faith .
Only one way , only one Name whereby one may be saved .
That is JESUS CHRIST .
That if you shall confess him by Mouth and believe that God has raised Him
from the dead you shall be saved .
When speaking to nicodemus , JESUS
said that GOD so loved the world that HE sent HIS only begotten Son
that who so ever BELIEVES in Him shall be saved .
He , JESUS , goes on to say but the who believes not shall be damned .
Let us also examine a man named cornelious .
In acts chapter ten we see a man
who had did many good works and many prayers unto God .
He was a gentile who prayed to the one true God of abraham .
He was in his house praying to God when an angel appeared
to Him and told him he had been heard for his many good alms and prayers .
Yet Even that man needed to hear one thing
in order to be saved . And he was told to send men unto Peter
who would tell him the words He needed to hear .
Whereby He and his household could be saved . IT was the glorious gospel .
God has chosen to save the people by the preaching of the gospel .
That all who do believe would be saved .
There simply is no other way , no other name whereby we must be saved .
Paul warned the church not to heed anyone , not even an angel
that brought any other gospel .
John said that if one brings not that gospel do not let them into your house
or bid them god speed .
So why do so many today entertain this other gospel
which is no gospel . The one that says
muslims , buddists , hindus atheists and etc
That if they simply do good they are saved . ITS A LIE .
And it is another jesus they preach , another false gospel
they do bring .
Satan knows how to deceive and he has no love for this world .
He lies to them through men even within christendom .
Let no man , woman or child enter into this lie .
Rather teach that to be saved ONE MUST BELIEVE in CHRIST JESUS .
All else is but vanity and it cannot save .
And if a man tells you HE knows JESUS
and that JESUS is just another way to GOD and that these other religions
have their way too . THAT MAN does not KNOW CHRIST
and is a liar . I say this out of great love for all peoples .
For I truly desire not one soul to perish .
The gospel that saves is real simple .
CALL upon the name of the LORD JESUS and ye shall be saved .
And if one truly belongs to Christ they won’t
call evil good and good evil . JESUS is not the minister of sin .
And we ought not to be either .

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬



12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬


6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians‬ ‭1:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬


9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
2 John 1:9-11 KJV


14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John‬ ‭3:14-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬


11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.
12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Acts‬ ‭11:11-17 ‭KJV‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬‬

Most of us own Bibles. What is the point of posting all these verses?

 

[BreadOfLife]

A distinction has long been recognized between the northern Italian peninsula and the central part, so that for more than one thousand years the bishoprics in northern Italy were called Italic, while those in central Italy were named Roman. Or, as Frederick Nolan says, in speaking of an early Latin Bible in this territory: “The author perceived, without any labor of inquiry, that it [Italic Bible] derived its name from that diocese which has been termed the Italic, as contradistringuished from the Roman.”11 The city of Milan in the northern part of the Italian peninsula has always been one of the most famous cities of history. At times it has been a rival to Rome. Several Roman emperors, abandoning the city on the banks of the Tiber, fixed their capital here. It was a famous meeting place for the East and the West. One author states that the religious influence of Milan was regarded with respect, and that its authority was especially felt in Gaul and in Spain.12 It was the chief center of the Celts who lived on the Italian side of the Alps.13 Before it could come under the dominant influence of the Roman bishop, the Gothic armies had completed their conquest of Italy as well as France. These newcomers, who had been converted to Christ more than one hundred years previously, held fast to the usages and customs of the primitive church and did no harm to Milan.14 Since the Goths granted religious freedom to their subjects, Milan profited by it. When from all parts of Europe newly chosen bishops came to Rome to be consecrated, none appeared from the Italic dioceses of Milan and Turin. They did not join in the procession. In fact, for many years after 553 there was a widespread schism in northern Italy and adjacent lands between Rome and the bishops of nine provinces under the leadership of the bishop of Milan who renounced fellowship with Rome to become autonomous. They had been alienated by the famous decree of the “Three Chapters,” passed in 553 by the Council of Constantinople, condemning three great leaders of the Church of the East.15 The people of this region knew the straight truth. They did not believe in the infallibility of the pope and did not consider that being out of communion with him was to be out of fellowship with the church.16 They held that their own ordination was as efficacious as the pretended apostolic succession of the bishop of Rome. While the Papacy was bringing much of Europe under her control, the two dioceses of Milan and Turin continued independent. It was unbearable to the Papacy that, in the very land in which was her throne, there should be a Mordecai in the gate. Two powerful forces nullified all her efforts to annex the Milan territory. First, the presence of the Lombard kings, unconquered until about 800, assured religious tolerance there. Moreover, the Lombards, like the Goths before them, rejected so many innovations brought in by Rome that they never admitted the papal bishops of Italy to a seat in their legislative councils.17 Therefore, they were promptly called Arians, the name given by Rome to her opponents.

For references and further reading see...
Nolan, The Integrity of the Greek Vulgate, Preface, p. 17
Gordon, “World Healers,” pp. 237, 238.
The Catholic Encyclopedia, art. “Milan.”
Ayer, A Source Book for Ancient Church History, pp. 596, 597.
Mosheim, Institutes of Ecclesiastical History.

That’s quite a cut-and-paste job.

UNFORTUNATELY, like all of your other recent posts – it is simply another DODGE from having to explain your asinine claim that the Catholic Church translated the Bible in Latin ONLY in Latin so “nobody could read it.”

Let me know when you’re ready to substantiate THAT little fairy tale . . .

 

[covenantee]

Just as i thought - another cowardly hit-and-run post.
I KNEW that when I asked you for proof of your asinine claim - you would collapse like a deck of cards.

And, if the Pope spent his days battling against heretical and blasphemous misquotes - it would take him MONTHS to address the ones on THIS forum alone . . .

Heh...heh...you're the one who's running.

Again.

Unable to answer a simple question.

If Bellarmine didn't author those claims, who did?

Tell us.

Don't be a coward.

Waiting.

 

[covenantee]

The utter stupidity of this claim is astounding . . .

This false claim of yours was NEVER a point of doctrine. Even if your false quote from a false document of Bellarmine were true - He NEVER had the aythority to formulate or define doctrine.

So, you're either a LIAR - or just plain stupid.
Take your pick . . .

You're right; I should have called it the heretical archive trove.

Satisfied now?

So tell us who authored that heresy.

Which no pope has ever renounced.

Don't be a coward.

Waiting.

 

[covenantee]

The utter stupidity of this claim is astounding . . .

This false claim of yours was NEVER a point of doctrine. Even if your false quote from a false document of Bellarmine were true - He NEVER had the aythority to formulate or define doctrine.

So, you're either a LIAR - or just plain stupid.
Take your pick . . .

You said you were going to hunt down the document.

Happy hunting.

And we're waiting.