Johann
Well-Known Member
Romans 7:21 - Struggling with Sin
So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
biblehub.com
The law is good and holy
“The Law of the Spirit of Life”
- Thread starter Netchaplain
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The law is good and holy
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
Romans 7:18
I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
Romans 7:21
So this is the principle I have discovered: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
Romans 7:23
But I see another law at work in my body, warring against the law of my mind and holding me captive to the law of sin that dwells within me.
Romans 8:2
For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death.
1 Corinthians 15:57
But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!
Treasury of Scripture
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
thank God.
Romans 6:14,17
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace…
Psalm 107:15,16
Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men! …
Psalm 116:16,17
O LORD, truly I am thy servant; I am thy servant, and the son of thine handmaid: thou hast loosed my bonds…
So then.
Romans 7:15-24
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I…
Galatians 5:17-24
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would…
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
Gal 5. 17-24 gives me hope, some here is saying Paul in Rom. 7 is the "unregenerate man" and in Rom. 8, Paul the "reborn man"=That's not how I read it.
Galatians 5:17-24
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would…
Gal 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Trying to walk in the Spirit, doing good deeds, is not good enough. And I don't find sinless perfection already attained in this life. For a whole lot of reasons.
Gal 5:17 For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Last edited:
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
I am asking you a question.
Can you connect the dots on the laws in Romans, 7 laws mentioned by Paul.....
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
I am kinda stupid, so maybe you can help me understand?
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
No-one should think that they can separate the law from the gospel.On many occasions the Pharisees in their hypocrisy were roundly and rightly rebuked by Jesus for thinking that by keeping the law they would be saved; on one such occasion Jesus said:
Matthew 23:23
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
So obedience is good, and ought always to be done, but there are more important aspects of life in Christ, as Jesus put it ‘weightier matters of the law’, which have a greater priority. Love, mercy, faith, justice. That Jesus said they are "weighty matters of law" is significant. There are those who claim the law was nailed to the cross: they have to reconcile the fact that love, justice, and mercy, that is the gospel,is part and parcel of that very law which they claim is of no further relevance to the Christian. How can ‘thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart etc’ be no longer of any significance to the Christian life? Is this not the very essence of the law? That upon love for God as paramount and impartial love for neighbour hang all the law and prophets? How then can the law and the gospel be separated? They cannot. They intertwine and overlay each other intimately, having different purposes yet they run parallel to one another. And please, enough of this nonsense that claims that the law was done away with but reinstituted by the church through the writings of Paul. Far out, God didn’t need Moses to establish law, nor did He need Paul. God’s law was established in the heavens, since eternity past and into eternity future. His law is His nature, His character. His righteousness. To do away with His law is to do away with God Himself.
It is as we take a hold of Christ and cleave to Him in faith and love, that His law ceases its claims upon us because of two things. First and foremost, we are dead to the law, (note well, it is us that are dead, not the law) in Christ. This means that God the Father considers us as having died with His Son, Jesus. Because Jesus died as an innocent man, God can include in Him the guilt of humanity, that includes you and me. God considers the debt paid. What claims the law has upon us as far as guilt is concerned is eternally dealt with.
Secondly, we are gifted with His righteousness. Not just accounted righteous like a book-keeping entry, but changed, sanctified, made righteous each day and made a new creature that lives, breathes, loves, obeys, cherishes the good and despises the evil. Sin no longer has an attraction to us. Grieving the Holy Spirit that abides in us becomes a detestable consideration. And as we hunger and thirst after righteousness we come to the point when we would rather die than tell a lie. We would rather burn than deny our love for our Maker. We would rather be tortured than be found to be a thief, or an adulterer. We would rather suffer ridicule, abuse, and slander than to compromise truth, reduce holiness to a human standard, or behave in such a way that brings disrepute upon He who saved us.
What a wonderful God who through the power of His word and the work of His Spirit can fulfill in us His promises as laid out in His law. But it takes faith. You must believe that God has the power, and the willingness to accomplish this. You must also decide if you want this. Jesus said that those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will be filled. Do you believe His words, His promises? Below are a set of promises, that as you surrender your life to Him, fully trusting in Him and allow Him to work in you His righteousness and holiness, and that if you believe that what He promises will assuredly come to pass, these will become real for you in this life.
You shall love the Lord thy God with all the heart, with all the soul, and with all thy strength.
You shall worship the Lord thy God and you will only serve Him.
You shall not have any other god before Him, nor shall you make any graven image.
You shall never take the name of the Lord in vain.
You shall remember to keep holy His Sabbath day.
And you shall love thy neighbour as thyself.
You shall not dishonour your parents.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not lie.
You shall not covet.
Law One: ……….The law of God.
after the inward man”…..(Romans 7:22)
Paul has nothing but love and respect for God’s law. He considers it ‘holy, just and good’. It is Paul’s earnest and deepest desire to honour that law, and to keep all the commandments,
” but I see another law in my members, warring against the law (of God) of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to….” (v23cont.)
Law Two:………..“The law of sin…
“…which is in my members.
Paul delights in obedience, but finds that in the carnal nature resides a law which makes it impossible, the law of sin. Paul confesses his wretchedness and guilt. “Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” he cries.
“I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin.” (vs 25)
But if Paul is bound by the law of sin, despite his best intentions to obey the law of God, how then can he overcome? The answer is just 2 verses later. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For…
Law Three:……….the law of the Spirit of life…
in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” Romans 8:1,2.
Three laws. The law of God which is holy, just, and good.
The law of sin which binds the carnal man making it impossible to obey the law of God.
The law of the Spirit of life which
through the grace and power of God makes it possible for the reborn child of God to obey the law of God, if he relies on and walks after the Spirit and not after the flesh.
The law of sin has no power over them who are completely surrendered to Christ. That is why elsewhere Paul can assert that to those who walk in the Spirit they are transformed by the renewing of their minds, and are recreated into the image of the character of Christ. A character that is obedient and a mind (like Christ’s) which delights in the law of God and rejoices that by faith in the power and grace of God he may be obedient to all the commandments.
Matthew 23:23
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
So obedience is good, and ought always to be done, but there are more important aspects of life in Christ, as Jesus put it ‘weightier matters of the law’, which have a greater priority. Love, mercy, faith, justice. That Jesus said they are "weighty matters of law" is significant. There are those who claim the law was nailed to the cross: they have to reconcile the fact that love, justice, and mercy, that is the gospel,is part and parcel of that very law which they claim is of no further relevance to the Christian. How can ‘thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart etc’ be no longer of any significance to the Christian life? Is this not the very essence of the law? That upon love for God as paramount and impartial love for neighbour hang all the law and prophets? How then can the law and the gospel be separated? They cannot. They intertwine and overlay each other intimately, having different purposes yet they run parallel to one another. And please, enough of this nonsense that claims that the law was done away with but reinstituted by the church through the writings of Paul. Far out, God didn’t need Moses to establish law, nor did He need Paul. God’s law was established in the heavens, since eternity past and into eternity future. His law is His nature, His character. His righteousness. To do away with His law is to do away with God Himself.
It is as we take a hold of Christ and cleave to Him in faith and love, that His law ceases its claims upon us because of two things. First and foremost, we are dead to the law, (note well, it is us that are dead, not the law) in Christ. This means that God the Father considers us as having died with His Son, Jesus. Because Jesus died as an innocent man, God can include in Him the guilt of humanity, that includes you and me. God considers the debt paid. What claims the law has upon us as far as guilt is concerned is eternally dealt with.
Secondly, we are gifted with His righteousness. Not just accounted righteous like a book-keeping entry, but changed, sanctified, made righteous each day and made a new creature that lives, breathes, loves, obeys, cherishes the good and despises the evil. Sin no longer has an attraction to us. Grieving the Holy Spirit that abides in us becomes a detestable consideration. And as we hunger and thirst after righteousness we come to the point when we would rather die than tell a lie. We would rather burn than deny our love for our Maker. We would rather be tortured than be found to be a thief, or an adulterer. We would rather suffer ridicule, abuse, and slander than to compromise truth, reduce holiness to a human standard, or behave in such a way that brings disrepute upon He who saved us.
What a wonderful God who through the power of His word and the work of His Spirit can fulfill in us His promises as laid out in His law. But it takes faith. You must believe that God has the power, and the willingness to accomplish this. You must also decide if you want this. Jesus said that those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will be filled. Do you believe His words, His promises? Below are a set of promises, that as you surrender your life to Him, fully trusting in Him and allow Him to work in you His righteousness and holiness, and that if you believe that what He promises will assuredly come to pass, these will become real for you in this life.
You shall love the Lord thy God with all the heart, with all the soul, and with all thy strength.
You shall worship the Lord thy God and you will only serve Him.
You shall not have any other god before Him, nor shall you make any graven image.
You shall never take the name of the Lord in vain.
You shall remember to keep holy His Sabbath day.
And you shall love thy neighbour as thyself.
You shall not dishonour your parents.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not lie.
You shall not covet.
3 Spiritual laws that govern life.
“For I delight inLaw One: ……….The law of God.
after the inward man”…..(Romans 7:22)
Paul has nothing but love and respect for God’s law. He considers it ‘holy, just and good’. It is Paul’s earnest and deepest desire to honour that law, and to keep all the commandments,
” but I see another law in my members, warring against the law (of God) of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to….” (v23cont.)
Law Two:………..“The law of sin…
“…which is in my members.
Paul delights in obedience, but finds that in the carnal nature resides a law which makes it impossible, the law of sin. Paul confesses his wretchedness and guilt. “Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” he cries.
“I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin.” (vs 25)
But if Paul is bound by the law of sin, despite his best intentions to obey the law of God, how then can he overcome? The answer is just 2 verses later. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For…
Law Three:……….the law of the Spirit of life…
in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” Romans 8:1,2.
Three laws. The law of God which is holy, just, and good.
The law of sin which binds the carnal man making it impossible to obey the law of God.
The law of the Spirit of life which
through the grace and power of God makes it possible for the reborn child of God to obey the law of God, if he relies on and walks after the Spirit and not after the flesh.
The law of sin has no power over them who are completely surrendered to Christ. That is why elsewhere Paul can assert that to those who walk in the Spirit they are transformed by the renewing of their minds, and are recreated into the image of the character of Christ. A character that is obedient and a mind (like Christ’s) which delights in the law of God and rejoices that by faith in the power and grace of God he may be obedient to all the commandments.
Romans 8:2 KJV
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
Of the Law of Moses, it's written,
Leviticus 18:5 KJV
Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
Paul quotes it here,
Romans 10:5 KJV
For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
The Law of Sin and Death, like you said, binds us that we cannot keep the Law, and we will all of us fall short of God's glory.
The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is a new law which, instead of 'the one who does the law will live by it', we live because we have the Spirit of Life, being baptized into Christ Jesus.
We've been removed from our first marriage, and are now in our second marriage.
Romans 7:1-4 KJV
1) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Any relation to the Law is ended. Now, our Law is Love, and it is Liberty, and it is Christ Himself.
Much love!
I'd rather say, we've been freed from the power of sin being baptized into Jesus Christ. What remains is that we learn to reckon it so.
We don't believe we are free, so when the test comes, we don't believe we can endure, so we "white knuckle it", and maybe endure albeit with mental/emotional struggle, or we just fail, because because we haven't the hope.
But when we come to believe that we are completely removed from that sort of relationship with God, we don't condemn ourselves, even when we fail we realize we are not condemned by God, so we don't run away, try to hide from Him, out of shame, or fear. And not having that shame, or that fear, we are free to just be open and trusting with Him.
Opening ourselves to God in that way, in a complete and trusting - innocent - way, I think this is what brings us the victory we already have, but don't avail ourselves of. Lack of understanding. Lack of faith. It seems counterintuitive but that's only fleshy reasoning.
It's simplicity. My faith is either in God or in myself. I'm either allowing God the responsibility for fixing me or I'm taking it on myself. God says He is working in me to both will and to do what pleases Him. Will and action. He's repairing my broken "chooser".
I'm to live out what He's working into me. But then, that's always the greater freedom, and the greater peace, and the greater love, and all the rest.
If we compare ourselves to the Law we're going to see a mixed bag, and in fact there is a huge cultural and civic difference, you have to do some really interpretive reading to try to fit it all in. The fact is, without the temple, it's literally impossible to keep the Law. Who are the Levites we are tithing to? But we are free of that Law (gentiles were never even given it), and are under a new law, a new command, which is actually an old command.
Much love!
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The only way that the spirit life is decoded is thru the Baptism of the Holy Spirit = Gospel of John, Acts
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the HIGHEST Calling and Blessing from the Father for every Believer in Christ.
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit yields this: 1 John 2:20
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
The Holy Spirit is the Spiritual Connection to the Father and the Son - John chapter 17
"And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
It's ALL about HIS LOVE
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Yes, I pretty much agree. Paul was speaking of a principle that went back to the original Sin and the original Fall of Man. But he applies that principle in the context of the Law of Moses, the way I see it. Thank you. You're essentially correct, I think.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
The Bible speaks about a number of laws that God has established for humanity. They include the following.
The Law Of Moses
The Law of Moses was given specifically to Israel. Moses wrote.
And Moses commanded them, saying: "At the end of every seven years, at the appointed time in the year of release, at the Feast of Tabernacles, "when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God in the place which He chooses, you shall read this law before all Israel in their hearing. "Gather the people together, men and women and little ones, and the stranger who is within your gates, that they may hear and that they may learn to fear the Lord your God and carefully observe all the words of this law, "and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God as long as you live in the land which you cross the Jordan to possess (Deuteronomy 31:10-13).
The Law Of God
Paul spoke of the law of God.
For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (Romans 2:12).
The Law Of Conscience
There is also a law of conscience.
For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) (Romans 2:14-15).
The Law Of Works
Scripture speaks of a law of works
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. Romans 3:27
The Law Of Faith
There is also a law of faith
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. (Romans 3:27).
The Law Of Spirit Of Life And The Law Of Sin And Death
Paul wrote of the law of spirit of life as well as the law of sin and death.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (Romans 8:2).
The Law Of Righteousness
There is a law of righteousness.
But Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness (Romans 9:31).
The Law Was Good
Paul said the law was good.
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet" (Romans 7:7).
The Law Of Love
Paul spoke of the law of love.
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law (Romans 13:8-10).
The Royal Law
James wrote of the royal law.
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well; but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. (James 2:8-10).
Summary
God has established a number of laws in the universe. These laws are good. They include the Law of Moses, the law of sin and death, the law of God, the law of righteousness, the law of love, and the royal law.
The above from Blueletter Bible
1 The law of Moses
2 The law as a principle
3 The law of faith
4 The law of sin
5 Law of the mind
6 Law of the Spirit.
7 Law of Christ.
Have we died to the 10 commandments?
The bolded letters is my question to you, connect the dots, and most importantly, have we really died TO the 10 commandments?
That's all
Also, in your opinion, was Paul unregenerate in Romans 7, and reborn in 8?
Rom_7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom_7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom_7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom_7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom_7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom_7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom_7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom_7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom_7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom_7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom_7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Last edited:
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
Guess most here would say the 10 commandments were given to Israel and not the Gentiles, therefore we are no longer under it.
Yet, when I observe the over 1,000 Imperatives recorded in Scriptures, all from the Old Covenant.
