WAKE UP!!! Church pastors we are living in the days of the very near rapture!
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Gottservant
Well-Known Member
The principle of prophecy, is to make sure we have the right attitude, about the things that are to come.
Find the prophecy, that you feel gives you the best attitude and start there.
Starting with every scripture that mentions prophecy, is something only God can do.
Find the prophecy, that you feel gives you the best attitude and start there.
Starting with every scripture that mentions prophecy, is something only God can do.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Leah first bride = OT Israel
Rachel NT Bride that Jacob worked 7 more years for = 7 is Christ the Day of REST = Jacob finally gets his Bride Rachel
There are ONLY Two Brides mentioned in Scripture
OT Israel
NT Saints/Jew & Gentile = Jew & Gentile was God's Desire from the Beginning but first Leah had to be married until Messiah.
Then Messiah7 came down to gather His NT Bride = Jew and Gentile
The Light
Well-Known Member
Why are you separating between old and new testament brides?????????????????? There is one Gospel. The Lord comes for the first bride and works 7 more years for the second bride. Pretty simple and scriptural
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Because you just made up Two NT Brides which is heresy.
Jew & Gentile = One Bride of Christ
For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
19Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Gottservant
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Yes sir.
i used to believe in pre-trib and soul sleep.
Thankfully, it was only for a short time.
Deep Study in the Scriptures with PRAYER and the Holy Spirit opened my eyes.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
You have not even explained the Seals. I am going by what John was a witness to.
John does not mention the AoD until the 7th Trumpet. That is after the final harvest.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Ezekiel 14 does not change the order of how John placed events in Revelation.
Why are you applying Scripture to the removal of the church back onto the OT promises given to Israel as a nation? Israel will not be raptured. The church will be raptured. Do you think the church needs to be severely punished for not having faith?
A dead church will be raptured. A false church was never going to be raptured ever. The word false implies it was never redeemed to begin with. A dead church may not produce works nor fruit, but faith without works is dead. There is still faith, and the church is born in faith, not by works that will condemn one to eternal punishment.
Many in the OT relied on works alone, and not faith, which is just the opposite condition the church is in.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Revelation is a Reflection upon the OT Prophetic Word, the Gospel, the Apostles writings with added INSIGHT by the Lord.
No one will ever correctly interpret Revelation if you fail to understand what was written prior to Revelation.
The Apostles John and Paul along with the Holy Spirit did not confuse or change their mind about when the Antichrist debuts.
Start here = 1 John 2:18
"Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. "
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Jesus said to His Bride: "Do not be deceived" = Matt ch24
There is only One Resurrection for the Righteous and only One Rapture/Gathering of NT Saints that occurs AFTER the First Resurrection.
OT Scripture only agrees with NT Scripture.
Romans 11 will not be fulfilled until the Second Coming of Christ = Jesus emphatically and irrevocably said so.
There are no raptures recorded in Revelation = BECAUSE it only takes place on earth at His Second Coming.
"And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love to one another and to all, just as we do to you, so that He may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints." 1 Thess ch3
JESUS is Coming with ALL His Saints from Heaven = ALL the Saints that have died prior to His Coming.
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have died, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have died in Jesus.
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have died.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thess 4:13-18
Not so. Jesus is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5). Nowhere does it call the future resurrection of the dead in Christ the first resurrection. That is your own invention.
Where anywhere in Jeremiah does it mention a rapture of the church, followed by a 7 years trib followed by a 3rd coming, never mind Jeremiah 30?
You misinterpret an Old Testament prophecy (Jeremiah 30) that expressly relates to the Babylonian exile, and apply it to some supposed Pretrib rapture, some alleged 7 years trib or a 3rd coming that is not remotely mentioned in the passage. This is how Pretrib hermeneutics work. They employ theological dubious colored rules. This shows us how bereft Pretrib is of biblical support.
It is so hard engaging with this position is because you have to deprogram them from all the false teaching that they have been taught over the years.
Jacob's troubles are not mentioned anywhere in Revelation or anywhere else in the New Testament. Pretribbers have to force it in there.
Dispensationalists boast often about the need for a literalist approach to Scripture. But when their theology is tested by the Word of God it is seen to fall short. When we analyze their boast, we find truth after truth and passage after passage that they butcher in order to facility their doctrine. Not only do they not take a literal approach but they also repeatedly fail to acknowledge context or setting. The subject of Jacob’s trouble is a case-in-point.
Pretribbers rip Jacob's troubles from its historic old covenant setting in the book of Jeremiah, and its clear description of the Babylonian exile, and translate it to some imaginary seven-year period at the end, to support their end-time beliefs.
A careful and unbiased analyze of the biblical and contextual evidence relating to the book of Jeremiah will prove that Jacob’s trouble was an historic occurrence that has been long fulfilled in the Babylonian captivity. Also, it has absolutely nothing to do with the end of time. It rather describes a time when Jeremiah lived and when he was rebuking the rebellion of Israel that caused him to be driven from their homeland.
Jacob's trouble is shown to relate to Babylonian captivity which occurred back in Nebuchadrezzar’s day. Let us let the Bible speak for itself.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
God forbid i invent some false doctrine (pre-trib rapture) by adding to God's words what HE did not say.
Indeed - the LORD Jesus did emphatically say that the Resurrection of the dead in Christ is the First Resurrection.
These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison,
that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days.
Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power,
but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Rev ch20
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
LOL - you have me busting a gut here
Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according asrst covenant they loved.
Much to learn you have and the time is short.
This speaks of Leah = OT Bride = first wife of Jacob = under the first covenant(OT)
If you submit yourself to the Word and correction, the pre-trib scales will fall off your eyes................,
BUT - if you refuse, you will not SEE until it is upon you and the Mark is before you = death and Life hang in the Balance
Ok, so are you saying that the "first resurrection" relates to the wicked when Jesus comes: "the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."?
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
You are missing the first will be last, and the last shall be first, point Jesus made.
Believers are reigning now
Another example (of many) how Premillennialists reject the tenses in the original Greek, involves the redeemed currently functioning as kings and priests. The Bible shows God’s people reigning now. Ephesians 2:4-6 says, “God … hath raised us up together (aorist active indicative), and made us sit together (aorist active indicative) in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”
Believers are citizens of a heavenly kingdom (Philippians 3:20–21). They are seated in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:4-6, 11-14, 3:1). They now rule and reign with Him in life and in death.
John says in Revelation 1:5-6, “Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made (aorist active indicative) us kings and priests unto God and his father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever.”
We are kings now!!! We therefore reign now!!! This is current and occurs before the second coming of the Lord. This shows what we are now positionally and spiritually “in Christ” – which is reigning in delegated authority will be realized in all its eternal glory physically when we are glorified at Christ’s Coming. The elect of God become kings and priests in salvation when they enter into all the riches of Christ and His glorious power. We become joint-heirs with Him in His current reign and marvelous glory. We become imitators of Him in His humble and contrite earthly ministry. Here again Calvary is given as the transaction that enabled believers to enter into the two spiritual offices described here – kingship and priesthood. Without the cross-work we could never have realized these heavenly privileges.
Revelation 5, which is evidently located before the Second Advent, describes the same kingly/priestly reign of the redeemed in heaven, saying, “they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast (aorist active indicative) redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made (aorist active indicative) us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign (future article) on the earth” (v. 9).
1 Peter 2:9 says of the Church presently – intra-Advent, “Ye are a chosen generation, a royal (or kingly) priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light.”
We are kings and priests today. The demand of a priest was to make a sacrifice and intercede for the people. We fulfil that spiritually, not in an Old Testament sense. The responsibility of a king was to reign and exercise authority and power within the kingdom. We fulfil that spiritually, not in an Old Testament sense.
Revelation 20:4-5 says, “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given (aorist active indicative) unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived (aorist active indicative) and reigned (aorist active indicative) with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.”
The dead in Christ are therefore no longer in Abraham’s bosom since the first resurrection. They are seen in heaven reigning with Christ. Basically, as Satan was banished and the elect were welcomed.
Believers are already partaking in the first resurrection
A final matter may prove our point, John is describing the current reality of believers already partaking in the first resurrection in Revelation 20:6. It says, “Blessed and holy is he ‘that hath part’ (present active particle) in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.” Our part in the first resurrection, shown throughout the Word to be Christ’s resurrection (Acts 26:23, Colossians 1:18, 1 Corinthians 15:20 and Revelation 1:5).
The duplicity of this subject is that everywhere else the presence tense is used, Premillennialists have no difficulty in applying it to the present, when it does not interfere with their pet doctrine. Jesus parallels Revelation 20:6 in John 3:16, teaching: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth (present active particle) in him should not perish, but have (present active subjunctive) everlasting life.”
Currently believing carefully corresponds with currently experiencing “everlasting life." It is a present reality for the elect, not merely a future hope. That is so because God lives within us now.
John 3:36 says, “He that believeth on the Son hath (present active indicative) everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God (the second death) abideth on him.”
If you don't possess eternal life now you will not possess it in the life to come. Only those who possess it now will never die.
Jesus said in John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath (present active indicative) everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death (or experience the second death) unto life.”
The transition from death to life both spiritually and physically occurs by way of resurrection. There is no other way. This is demonstrated many times in Scripture in regard to both spiritual and physical resurrection.
This is supported by Revelation 2:11, which similarly says: “He that overcometh (present active particle) shall not be hurt of the second death.”
Here is more proof that our escape from “the second death” is not future tense (as Premillennialists claim) but presence tense.
David in NJ
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