Always Believing
Member
I don't do the spiritualizing game with literal words that have literal meanings.
The Spirit and God is invisible. Not the resurrected bodies of Jesus Christ and His resurrected saints on earth.
What is satan's strategy of Armeggeden?
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Always Believing
Member
You continue to make things physical into spiritual, and things spiritual into physical.
The image of man's physical body is not the image of God's Spirit. When the Son came into the world, it was in the likeness of man. His righteous soul and godly spirit is the express image of God.
I have been perfectly courteous to you, and have tried to see some good in your teaching, but when disagreed with you end up being pouty about it.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Re 6:4 And another [horse] came forth, a red horse: and to him that sat thereon it was given to take peace from the earth, and that they should slay one another:
(Revelation 16:14) . . .go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
As I said, it's time to stop. To not do spiritualizing is to not do God, for God is spirit. The flesh profits nothing.
Always Believing
Member
So stop already and quit ringing my notice bell. You turn out to be pouty about being disagreed with. I'm thinking this close teaching of your's, that you have physically died like Jesus and are akin to Jesus Christ come in immortal flesh and bones on earth, is going to your head.
Taken
Well-Known Member
What is satan's strategy of Armeggeden?
OP ^During the Lamb’s Opening of the Seven Seals, Satan is given Great Authority over the Earth (this world).
He uses that Authority to sit as The world Ruler;
* Satans strategy; to influence, coerce, raise armies of men and advocate men’s allegiance to him.
* Satan’s strategy; Wars between those aligned with and without Satan battle.
* Satan’s strategy; Is to operate quickly...Because:
Rev 12:
[12] Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Gods Revelation;
Rev 16:
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the (seven) vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
[2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
[3] And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
[4] And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
[5] And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
[6] For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
[7] And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
[8] And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
[9] And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
[10] And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
[11] And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
[12] And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
[13] And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
[14] For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them (marked with allegiance to Satan) to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
[15] Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
[16] And he (satan) gathered them (armies of men marked WITH satan’s allegiance mark) together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. (PLACE...ie. Mt. Megiddo, a place about 80 Miles north of Jerusalem, and a historic place of several battles between ISRAEL and men Against ISRAEL).
[17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
The Completion of Satan’s “short time” of allowed Great Power and Authority of Governance over the whole world, CEASES.
* Satan and his band of demonic angels, are Cast into Hell, for 1,000 years.
* Mortals in Allegiance, ie. marked with Satans Mark/seal...killed...food for birds, rot, return to dust. Their souls, sent to Hell, to await Judgement.
* While KING Christ Jesus, His Holy Angels and His saints, gather in Jerusalem, AS the few believing mortals “preserved” from death during Armageddon, Begin establishing towns, cities, nations, governing kings and repopulating the earth.
* (Timeframe of THIS World Governance OF KING Christ Jesus...His Kingdom (Abraham’s promised Land)....His Throne (King David’s promised Everlasting Throne in Jerusalem)...His Holy Angels, His Saints WITH Christ Jesus IN His Kingdom....and Mortal men, in their kingdoms...
* (1,000 Years duration).
* Thereafter commences Gods LAST PHASE of separating the divided...(those beings, without God from those with God.)
Demonic angels FROM Holy angels.
Anti-Godly men FROM Godly men.
* Thereafter Judgement, Sentencing, final Separation.
* Thereafter Heavens and Earth MADE anew.
* Thereafter The Barrier between the Heavens and Earth OPENED.
* Thereafter AS it is IN Heaven, So also Shall it Be ON Earth.
Glory to God,
Taken
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Meanwhile you continue to accuse me of things I have not said and have clarified because of your confusion. Bad fruit.
Always Believing
Member
Ok then, let's try again, just to make sure I'm not mistaking you.
Are you saying we have died in the flesh, as Jesus did on the cross?
Are you saying we will one day die physically in the flesh, as Jesus did on the cross?
Are you saying we die in the flesh, as Jesus did on the cross, because He did not die physically but only spiritually?
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Just as we "were" crucified with Christ according to scripture, we also died (past tense). But because we "follow" Him "but each one in his own order" (according to Paul) "we who are alive and remain" (also according to Paul), which was foreshadowed by Christ before He ascended after being resurrected. We too walk out our last days upon this earth and then ascend.
No, but rather that we have already died--not "in the flesh", but "to the flesh"...just we have also been crucified with Christ "already." Which is a matter of fully understanding the difference between the times of this world and God in whom there is "no shadow of turning", no sun, no moon, no evening, no morning, and no time.
No, that would be to say we too are God. His death on the cross set the time of all events of which we ("were") included in. But then afterward, He foreshadowed what was also in store for us before ascending to be with the Father as One--which He could do as God, but we cannot exactly do as not being God. Such are prophecy and many things foreshadowed--they only portray the actual events to come.
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Always Believing
Member
I believe I see what you are getting at, and if so, then I like it very much and even are starting to practise it.
You appear to be saying we ought not consider walking as Christ as he did before His death, but also after His resurrection on earth. The point being that Jesus is the same, yesterdy, and today, so that whether in natural flesh or immortal flesh, He walks the same on earth. With this in mind we ought also not consider our natural flesh as much as imagine and look for our immortal bodies, and endeavor to live that way. We think less of our body's mortality, and more of our newly resurrected immortal body to come.
In this way, we envision walking on earth as Jesus did for 40 days with immortal flesh and bone.
However, the confusing part is when you apply remaining alive on earth to being as Jesus for our last '40 days' before ascension. The problem with that is that remaining alive applies also to physical as well as spiritual. To say we are therefore remaining alive on earth the same as Jesus did for 40 days, is teaching we also have His immortal body alive and remaining on earth, while being spiritually pure as He, and living righteously and holily as He.
I completely agree with envisioning and conducting ourselves, as though were were one with Christ during His 40 days in spiritual purity and manner of life, but we cannot yet be the same as Him physically. We can imagine ourselves as being the disciples walking with Him at that time, but they were still in mortal flesh and blood, and not walking as Him with resurrected flesh and bones.
The benefit of the teaching, that is see, helps us to further perfect holiness in the fear of the Lord, as though we already have resurrected bodies. The danger is then to actually believe it. That is the delusional pride that leads to a crashing fall.
It's like Simon the magician in the movie the Silver Chalice, where he actually began to believe he could fly, flew off the tower straight into the dirt.
If we actually believe we have attained immortal bodies on earth, like Jesus during His 40 days, then we will not only believe it is possible for us to never sin with the flesh, but also believe we can no more even be tempted. That is only for God on the throne, Jesus christ resurrected from the dead, and the first resurrection of the church.
This teaching of yours acting as if we already have arrived, can lead to the surety of our calling, so that we shall not fall (2 Peter 1), but we will always need to continue enduring temptation of the devil and resisting him, so long as we are alive and remaining in mortal bodies on earth.
You don't believe you now have the resurrected physical body of Jesus during your own '40 days' of remaining alive on earth, do you?
By saying Jesus' 40 days on earth in resurrected immortal body, is a foreshadowing of us walking out our own last '40 days', are you not saying we are walking with immortal flesh and bones as He, and not just with Him in the Spirit and blameless living?
This is the gospel message that we are spiritually alive in Christ, while remaining in the flesh, and dead to sins and trespasses of the flesh, so that we live as He, before and after His resurrection;), in righteousness and true holiness. We now patiently wait for our own death, burial, and resurrection, while eschewing evil and overcoming temptation. We are now of His flesh and bones spiritually in the inner man, but we have not yet recieved our own resurrected immortal physical body.
We will not walk on earth immortally as He did for 40 days, until He comes again and we reign and rule with Him the nations of the earth.
Always Believing
Member
This really does not seem to answer the question. The main question is if Jesus died physically on the cross, and not just spiritually in an apparent physical death.
You are saying we cannot do that, because we are not God like Jesus. That implies that Jesus being God, did not die physically on the cross, because as some say, God cannot 'die', nor can God be 'born', especially not with natural flesh and blood. They say Jesus was only another appearance of Christ on earth in the form of man, but not in the flesh, born of a woman and physically dying on the cross. He simply appeared in the shape of man that time for 33 years, instead of just an hour or two.
And so, the question really is for us all to answer: Did Jesus Christ come in the flesh, born of a virgin woman, and died physically on the cross? I say yes.
Davy
Well-Known Member
1. Ezekiel 38 gives us the nation alignment for the end, and that's the armies that will try to destroy Israel in final with the battle of Armageddon.
2. Armageddon is 'symbolic' of this final battle on the only day of Christ's future return, on the "day of the Lord" which is the very last day of this present world.
3. The chief prince of Meshech in Ezekiel 38 is representative of the nation of Russia ("chief" is ro'sh in Hebrew, i.e., Russia). They are linked with the radical Islamic countries, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, and old Soviet satellites like Georgia. Only Turkey (Togarmah), a Muslim nation, is still not in that alignment of nations that is to come upon Israel. So we should be watching Russia attempting to influence Turkey against the West today.
4. There are prophetic pointers in Ezekiel 38 that hints that the Israel mentioned there involves not only the Israel in the middle east, but also the "house of Israel" that dwells safely in the West. If you don't know about the ten lost tribes of the northern kingdom, i.e., the "house of Israel", then you won't understand this point. There are 2 Israels unto God, not just the sole nation of Israel in the middle east (we are supposed to understand this point in the previous Ezekiel 37 chapter, per Ezekiel 37:19-22). Per Genesis 48, Ephraim's seed was to become "a multitude of nations", and in the Christian West is where that happened.
5. During the coming "great tribulation", it will be a time of WORLD PEACE, not war. Jesus said don't be troubled as long as you hear of wars and rumors of wars, for the end is not yet. That means the 'end' will be a time of peace, though a fake peace. Daniel 8 confirms this also, and even that the false world king that is to come will cause craft to prosper by his hand. This is why Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5 showed that when the deceived say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" (on the last day) will come upon them.
6. During that time of "great tribulation", some of us will be delivered up to give a Testimony against the beast (see Mark 13). Jesus said for us to not premeditate what we will say in that 'hour', but to speak what The Holy Spirit gives us to say. So it won't be us speaking our own words, but God through The Holy Spirit. I believe this event will be televised to all nations. The false-Messiah will think to make a show against Christ's elect by having them delivered up with a fake trial against them, and God will turn it against Satan instead like He did with Balaam blessing Israel in the Old Testament.
7. Their Testimony will cause fury to rise up in Satan that he will determine to destroy God's people off this earth once and for all. That is when he will send the great army out of the northern quarters upon God's people of both the Israel in the middle east, and the "house of Israel" established in the Christian West that dwells safely without walls (middle east Israel dwells with many... walls in the middle east.)
Ezek 38:11
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
KJV
8. The Zephaniah 3:8 verse is another example of the future battle of Armageddon of Rev.16. The Zechariah 14 is also another example of that same battle on the day of Christ's future return on the "day of the Lord". It is what the Ezekiel 39 events is pointing to also, and afterwards. God is going to rain hailstones upon that great army out of the northern quarters the size of a talent (between 70 and 120 pounds).
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Just as we "were" crucified with Christ according to scripture, we also died (past tense). But because we "follow" Him "but each one in his own order" (according to Paul) "we who are alive and remain" (also according to Paul), which was foreshadowed by Christ before He ascended after being resurrected. We too walk out our last days upon this earth and then ascend.
No, but rather that we have already died--not "in the flesh", but "to the flesh"...just we have also been crucified with Christ "already." Which is a matter of fully understanding the difference between the times of this world and God in whom there is "no shadow of turning", no sun, no moon, no evening, no morning, and no time.
No, that would be to say we too are God. His death on the cross set the time of all events of which we ("were") included in. But then afterward, He foreshadowed what was also in store for us before ascending to be with the Father as One--which He could do as God, but we cannot exactly do as not being God. Such are prophecy and many things foreshadowed--the only portray the actual events to come.
You are still struggling with the fact that there is no "immortal flesh."
And what appeared to be "immortal flesh" with Jesus after his resurrection but before his ascension--did Peter not walk on water, and when he failed to continue, was it not for lack of faith or belief?
Before we can learn all truth, many have much to unlearn.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
I said it is because "we are not God" that Christ was able to do more than it would appear that we can do during our own time between being made alive in the spirit and being dead to the flesh. But I have done so, not considering the times of this world because all things actually only happen "in Christ" in His time rather than in our own time. That is the point of confusion. The problem is you are looking at the times of this world as if they are more than the mere "image" of revelation that they are, as actually being their own time and events. They are not. Therefore, it is written that we "were" crucified with Him who is the same without regard to times, and that all things are "in Him."
It is in that reality (of God) that I have said that we cannot do what Jesus did in His portrayal and foreshadowing of our own times between the two events of resurrection and ascension--because, in and of ourselves, we do not have the same ability to independently will things into being. Jesus, on the other hand did and said, "I do the will of my Father." Thus, He also said, "without me you can do nothing." So in this time of our own stasis--no, we cannot do what He has already done.
However, we can do "greater works than these" which He did. Which was and is to say, He did things in the flesh that we know to be miracles, but what we do in the spirit is greater because the Spirit is greater than the flesh.
I do not know. There were many people in that day that died for confessing their faith in the Lord, who had been resurrected from the dead. There were many people persecuted and even stoned to death even during the days that Jesus Christ had walked around, even in Jerusalem. There were also many that died, in the second and final destruction of Jerusalem; and everything becomes new.
Always Believing
Member
With your way of writing, I really don't know if your even addressing my post, nor answers the simple question, if Jesus did indeed come in the flesh, was born of a woman and physically died on the cross. I assume you agree with that, correct?
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Yes, of course. I never said otherwise, but explained that reality does not reside in the "image" of this world, but with God.
Why do you ask?
hello hello hello
Can God get through the sludge of peoples' BS.
Armageddon is all about God's strategy and what is going to happen to Satan and his wiling faithful servants.
Jesus did tell us that Satan is going to try and overcome his interment in the Bottomless pit where he will not be able to exercise any influence over people by empowering his good and faithful servants with money to oppose the growth in the populating of God's Ever Lasting Kingdom, until he is released for the little while period. Even then his time will be short before he is captured and dispatched into the Lake of fire.
Can God get through the sludge of peoples' BS.
Armageddon is all about God's strategy and what is going to happen to Satan and his wiling faithful servants.
Jesus did tell us that Satan is going to try and overcome his interment in the Bottomless pit where he will not be able to exercise any influence over people by empowering his good and faithful servants with money to oppose the growth in the populating of God's Ever Lasting Kingdom, until he is released for the little while period. Even then his time will be short before he is captured and dispatched into the Lake of fire.
Always Believing
Member
You appear to be saying we ought walk as Jesus before and after His resurrection on earth, which is fine since the only change for Him on earth was the resurrected body. In spiritual purity and holiness of life, He has not changed, and so as He is now, we ought also to be on earth. (1 John 3:3, 4:17)
However you seem to take it a step further by saying our alive and remaining time on earth, is as His '40 days'. The problem is that includes our physical bodies alive and remaining, which if applied to His 40 days, says we are also physically like Him after His resurrection.
We walk as Him in His days on earth before death and after resurrection for 40 days, pertaining to spiritually pure and righteous living, but we certainly do not walk as Him as physically resurrected? Correct? You're not saying your physical body has any resurrected immortality in it?
You see, once again, you are implying there is now physical immortal flesh and bones already for us today?
Or, do you mean that there is no immortal flesh and bones, that Jesus walked on earth with, and that we will walk on earth with during His millennium?
So, you say Jesus during His 40 days was only an 'appearance' of flesh and bones, but not physically true?
Is that not what they say about Jesus was only an appearance of Christ in form of man, not physically born of a woman?
You say He was not really immortal flesh and bones after His resurrection on earth, but only an appearance or form. Do you say the same of His coming and dying on the cross?
Always Believing
Member
As I said, your way of talking is always put within your own doctrinal lingo, and so is not clear to me. I responded again about this in your reference to 'alive and remaining', so maybe you can look at it and clairfy.
Once again here. You appear to be saying this world is not real, as though what we do in this life is not real, so that we are not really judged for how we live in this world.
You see my point? You don't think that do you? It's just that your doctrinal way of saying things isn't so clear to me. It's not wrong to speak in our own doctrinal manner, that we have developed for ourselves over time of much study. But it becomes a problem of translation, if we can't put it in plain words that even children can understand.
It's the lesson I learned in history studies, where the professor said we must write our conclusion in layman terms, rather than 'proffessorialese', that only similar professors can relate to. If we want to instruct others outside our own community, and not just talk among ourselves, then we have to write our teaching, and especially our conclusion, in words any normal reader can understand.
I don't mind being written to as a child, so long as understand exactly what is being said. So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading. I can write things in a way that makes only sense to myself, but what's the point if I'm trying to show it to others?
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