The answer of hell and its origins

[The Learner]

Family, friends, business?

wife kicking me off computer

 

[The Learner]

ya, i guess youre supposed to have that initial impression?
it doesnt change on you til later; like “here a little there a little” and “iron sharpens iron?”
or, there’s a better known one…that isnt coming to mind at the moment
anyway more like chap 42 or so

Those chapters were the visitors giving wrong answers to the situation. In the very last chapters God corrects their errors or chews them out a little. Job was not allowed to be tested by Satan because of his sin. Job later repented in chapter 42 for doubting God.

In chapter 36 Elihu started accusing Job of sinning and teaching false doctrines mixed with truth.

Bible Gateway passage: Job 36 - Easy-to-Read Version

Elihu continued talking and said, “Be patient with me a little longer. God has a few more words that he wants me to say. I will share my knowledge with everyone. I will prove that my Maker is right. Job, I am telling the truth. I know what I am talking about. “God is very powerful, but he does...

www.biblegateway.com

Chapter 42
Then Job answered the Lord:

2 “I know you can do everything.
You make plans, and nothing can change or stop them.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this ignorant person saying these foolish things?’
I talked about things I did not understand.
I talked about things too amazing for me to know.

4 “You said to me, ‘Listen, and I will speak.
I will ask you questions, and you will answer me.’
5 In the past I heard about you,
but now I have seen you with my own eyes.
6 And I am ashamed of myself.
I am so sorry.
As I sit in the dust and ashes,
I promise to change my heart and my life.”

ME: from the text Job had a lack of knowledge, not serious sin. Job did turn around by not questioning God from his lack of knowledge.

7 After the Lord finished talking to Job, he spoke to Eliphaz from Teman. He said, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you did not tell the truth about me, as my servant Job did. 8 So now, Eliphaz, get seven bulls and seven rams. Take them to my servant Job. Kill them and offer them as a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will answer his prayer. Then I will not give you the punishment you deserve. You should be punished, because you were very foolish. You did not say what is right about me, as my servant Job did.”

9 So Eliphaz from Teman, Bildad from Shuah, and Zophar from Naamah obeyed the Lord. Then the Lord answered Job’s prayer.

 

[The Learner]

wow, that is a hideous translation. imo. you might go see anyway
sharpening your friends countenance is not the same thing as keeping your friend sharp, ezackly

Hebrew was one of my first languages. Do you read Hebrew? What I posted is the best translation of the text into English.

 

[Adam]

Hell is temporary (though as Jesus said, it is better to be dismembered on Earth than cast into hell).

 

[The Learner]

Hell is temporary (though as Jesus said, it is better to be dismembered on Earth than cast into hell).

Are we to dismember stuff in Detroit?

 

[Jack]

We do not yet know what we will become, except for Jack?
hmm

Jack simply believes Jesus who warned us of the "everlasting fire", Hell fire"!

 

[Jack]

He also uses their jargon like "reasoning from the scriptures" One of the watchtower books.

https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/Reasoning-From-the-Scriptures/

Kingdom Hall also likes "symbolism" to imply that God was wrong!

 

[Jack]

You can accuse all you want. Seems that's the way it is with you.You accuse people when they disagree with you, so be it. Just let's me know that you don't think people have the right to disagree with you.

I asked you a simple question that you have avoided like plague. How long did Kingdom Hall brainwash you? You're not qualified to rewrite our Bible no matter what Kingdom Hall tells you!

 

[Jack]

Accusing again. That's really all you got isn't Jack?

If you would answer simple questions you might not get accused Barney. How long did you study at Kingdom Hall? Did Jesus "cease to exist" for 3 days?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I asked you a simple question that you have avoided like plague. How long did Kingdom Hall brainwash you? You're not qualified to rewrite our Bible no matter what Kingdom Hall tells you!

That's because I don't answer insulting questions. All someone wants to do is argue, when they ask questions in an insulting manner. I can understand someone disagreeing with me. Now if you had simply disagreed with me, instead of making insults when you asked, "how long did kingdom Hall brainwash you." The way you asked this question was insulting, why would I answer anyone when they're being insulting asking a question in such a manner? It's obvious to me you just want to argue and be insulting? I would of told you how long I've been a Jehovah's Witness, if you had simply asked how long had I been a Jehovah's Witness. But you didn't ask that way, you just wanted to be insulting when you asked how long the kingdom Hall brainwash me. How would you like someone saying you're brainwashed because of the way you believe and where and how you learned it? Is that how we are to treat each other? That we are to insult one another.
Anyway, because of the way you asked the question like you did, which is in an insulting way, I didn't answer you. I'll continue to not answer such insulting questions too, as long as you ask questions in an insulting manner.

 

[Jack]

That's because I don't answer insulting questions. All someone wants to do is argue, when they ask questions in an insulting manner. I can understand someone disagreeing with me. Now if you had simply disagreed with me, instead of making insults when you asked, "how long did kingdom Hall brainwash you." The way you asked this question was insulting, why would I answer anyone when they're being insulting asking a question in such a manner? It's obvious to me you just want to argue and be insulting? I would of told you how long I've been a Jehovah's Witness, if you had simply asked how long had I been a Jehovah's Witness. But you didn't ask that way, you just wanted to be insulting when you asked how long the kingdom Hall brainwash me. How would you like someone saying you're brainwashed because of the way you believe and where and how you learned it? Is that how we are to treat each other? That we are to insult one another.
Anyway, because of the way you asked the question like you did, which is in an insulting way, I didn't answer you. I'll continue to not answer such insulting questions too, as long as you ask questions in an insulting manner.

When Kingdom Hall messengers stop attacking our Bible I won't need to ask questions that you don't like. I will continue to defend the Christian Bible against attackers.

 

[Jack]

I know you believe that you're agreeing with Jesus.

Don't you even know Who I quoted? His Name is Jesus, God of the Bible.

 

[St. SteVen]

Belief in Hell is not required for residency therein.
Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED.

Billions, if not trillions, have gone to the afterlife with no knowledge whatsoever of Jesus, or the Gospel.
Since God is omniscient, he knew this would happen. Since he is omnipotent, he can do something about it.
Since he is merciful and compassionate, he will demonstrate love to those he created in his own image. (his children)
Since he is just, he will justify all by the finished work of the Atonement. Everyone is already saved by that work.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's an amazingly unbiased presentation of the three main views.

 

[Jack]

Billions, if not trillions, have gone to the afterlife with no knowledge whatsoever of Jesus, or the Gospel.
Since God is omniscient, he knew this would happen. Since he is omnipotent, he can do something about it.
Since he is merciful and compassionate, he will demonstrate love to those he created in his own image. (his children)
Since he is just, he will justify all by the finished work of the Atonement. Everyone is already saved by that work.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's an amazingly unbiased presentation of the three main views.

Almost seems like you deny Hell fire that Jesus clearly taught.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hebrew was one of my first languages. Do you read Hebrew? What I posted is the best translation of the text into English.

seems to ignore the “face” part, dunno

Proverbs 27:17 Lexicon: Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

biblehub.com

 

[bbyrd009]

as Jesus said, it is better to be dismembered on Earth than cast into hell

no “hel” there though, see, Matthew 5:30 Lexicon: "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.
they had a term for what we now call “hel,” and Gehenna wasnt it

 

[bbyrd009]

Jack simply believes Jesus who warned us of the "everlasting fire", Hell fire"!

yes ok, but it is us who perceives it to be in some “afterlife,” when the term for that would have been Abaddon or something, not Gehenna, which is right here on earth

therefore you can say that you believe Jesus all you like, but you might be sorely misunderstanding Him, since He also said “No one has ever gone up to heaven,” but you ignore that one right

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Did Jesus "cease to exist" for 3 days?

What is death Jack? Isn't it, the cessation of all functions of life, so, the opposite of life? (Deuteronomy 30:15, 19) Isn't it true that the Bible has the same original-language words for “death” or “dying” and are applied to humans, animals, and plants? (Ecclesiastes 3:19; 9:5; John 12:24; Jude 12; Revelation 16:3) However, for humans and animals doesn't the Bible show the vital function of the blood is maintaining life, stating that “the soul of the flesh is in the blood?” (Leviticus 17:11, 14; Genesis 4:8-11; 9:3, 4) Both humans and animals are spoken of as ‘expiring,’ that is, ‘breathing out’ the breath of life (Hebrew - nish math chai yim). (Genesis 7:21, 22; compare Genesis 2:7) And the Scriptures show that death in humans and animals follows the loss of the spirit or active force of life (Hebrew- ruach chai yim) Genesis 6:17; 7:15, 22; Ecclesiastes 3:19.

So from a biblical view point was is death? It's of interest to note what is known scientifically of the death process. In humans, for example, when the heart stops beating, the blood ceases to circulate nourishment and oxygen (obtained by breathing) to the billions of body cells.The World Book Encyclopedia (1987, Vol. 5, p. 52b) says: “A person whose heart and lungs stop working may be considered clinically dead but somatic death may not yet have occurred. The individual cells of the body continue to live for several minutes. The person may be revived if the heart and lungs start working again and give the cells the oxygen they need. After about three minutes, the brain cells, which are most sensitive to a lack of oxygen, begin to die. The person is soon dead beyond any possibility of revival. Gradually, other cells of the body also die. The last ones to perish are the bone, hair, and skin cells, which may continue to grow for several hours.” So while the vital importance of breathing and of the blood in maintaining the active life-force (ruach chai yim) in the body cells is evident, at the same time it is also clear that it is not the cessation of breathing or of heartbeat alone but the disappearance of the life-force or spirit from the body cells that brings death as referred to in the Scriptures.(Psalm 104:29; 146:4; Ecclesiastes 8:8)

In the scriptures the dead are shown to be “conscious of nothing at all” and the death state to be one of complete inactivity. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Psalm 146:4) Those dying are described as going into “the dust of death” (Psalm 22:15), becoming “impotent in death.” (Proverbs 2:18; Isaiah 26:14) In death there is no mention of God or any praising of him. (Psalm 6:5; Isaiah 38:18, 19) In both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, death is likened to sleep, a fitting comparison not only because of the unconscious condition of the dead but also because of the hope of an awakening through the resurrection. (Psalm 13:3; John 11:11-14) The resurrected Jesus is spoken of as “the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.”(1 Corinthians 15:20, 21)

The Interpreter's Bible (Vol. II, p. 1015), commenting on 1 Samuel 25:29, observes that “the idea of man as consisting of body and soul which are separated at death is not Hebrew but Greek.” (Edited by G. Buttrick, 1953) Similarly, Edmond Jacob, Professor of Old Testament at the University of Strasbourg, points out that, since in the Hebrew Scriptures one’s life is directly related with the soul (Hebrew, nephesh), “it is natural that death should sometimes be represented as the disappearance of this nephesh. (Genesis 35:18; 1 Kings 17:21; Jeremiah 15:9; Jonah 4:3). The ‘departure’ of the nephesh must be viewed as a figure of speech, for it does not continue to exist independently of the body, but dies with it (Numbers 31:19; Judges 16:30; Ezekiel 13:19). The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, edited by G. Buttrick, 1962, Vol. 1, p.802 says, "No biblical text authorizes the statement that the ‘soul’ is separated from the body at the moment of death.”
The point is that these people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses and many others agree that Adam and Eve, and all human beings after them when they died, ceased to exist as living souls, or living persons. Jesus came to humanity in the likeness of the first Adam. So when Jesus sacrificed his human life the only begotten Son of God didn't exist as a living soul or living person for parts of three days. Death is the opposite of life.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Don't you even know Who I quoted? His Name is Jesus, God of the Bible.

Just because a person quotes Jesus doesn't me they understand accurately what Jesus was saying. Anybody can quote Jesus.

 

[RLT63]

What is death Jack? Isn't it, the cessation of all functions of life, so, the opposite of life? (Deuteronomy 30:15, 19) Isn't it true that the Bible has the same original-language words for “death” or “dying” and are applied to humans, animals, and plants? (Ecclesiastes 3:19; 9:5; John 12:24; Jude 12; Revelation 16:3) However, for humans and animals doesn't the Bible show the vital function of the blood is maintaining life, stating that “the soul of the flesh is in the blood?” (Leviticus 17:11, 14; Genesis 4:8-11; 9:3, 4) Both humans and animals are spoken of as ‘expiring,’ that is, ‘breathing out’ the breath of life (Hebrew - nish math chai yim). (Genesis 7:21, 22; compare Genesis 2:7) And the Scriptures show that death in humans and animals follows the loss of the spirit or active force of life (Hebrew- ruach chai yim) Genesis 6:17; 7:15, 22; Ecclesiastes 3:19.

So from a biblical view point was is death? It's of interest to note what is known scientifically of the death process. In humans, for example, when the heart stops beating, the blood ceases to circulate nourishment and oxygen (obtained by breathing) to the billions of body cells.The World Book Encyclopedia (1987, Vol. 5, p. 52b) says: “A person whose heart and lungs stop working may be considered clinically dead but somatic death may not yet have occurred. The individual cells of the body continue to live for several minutes. The person may be revived if the heart and lungs start working again and give the cells the oxygen they need. After about three minutes, the brain cells, which are most sensitive to a lack of oxygen, begin to die. The person is soon dead beyond any possibility of revival. Gradually, other cells of the body also die. The last ones to perish are the bone, hair, and skin cells, which may continue to grow for several hours.” So while the vital importance of breathing and of the blood in maintaining the active life-force (ruach chai yim) in the body cells is evident, at the same time it is also clear that it is not the cessation of breathing or of heartbeat alone but the disappearance of the life-force or spirit from the body cells that brings death as referred to in the Scriptures.(Psalm 104:29; 146:4; Ecclesiastes 8:8)

In the scriptures the dead are shown to be “conscious of nothing at all” and the death state to be one of complete inactivity. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10; Psalm 146:4) Those dying are described as going into “the dust of death” (Psalm 22:15), becoming “impotent in death.” (Proverbs 2:18; Isaiah 26:14) In death there is no mention of God or any praising of him. (Psalm 6:5; Isaiah 38:18, 19) In both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures, death is likened to sleep, a fitting comparison not only because of the unconscious condition of the dead but also because of the hope of an awakening through the resurrection. (Psalm 13:3; John 11:11-14) The resurrected Jesus is spoken of as “the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.”(1 Corinthians 15:20, 21)

The Interpreter's Bible (Vol. II, p. 1015), commenting on 1 Samuel 25:29, observes that “the idea of man as consisting of body and soul which are separated at death is not Hebrew but Greek.” (Edited by G. Buttrick, 1953) Similarly, Edmond Jacob, Professor of Old Testament at the University of Strasbourg, points out that, since in the Hebrew Scriptures one’s life is directly related with the soul (Hebrew, nephesh), “it is natural that death should sometimes be represented as the disappearance of this nephesh. (Genesis 35:18; 1 Kings 17:21; Jeremiah 15:9; Jonah 4:3). The ‘departure’ of the nephesh must be viewed as a figure of speech, for it does not continue to exist independently of the body, but dies with it (Numbers 31:19; Judges 16:30; Ezekiel 13:19). The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, edited by G. Buttrick, 1962, Vol. 1, p.802 says, "No biblical text authorizes the statement that the ‘soul’ is separated from the body at the moment of death.”
The point is that these people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses and many others agree that Adam and Eve, and all human beings after them when they died, ceased to exist as living souls, or living persons. Jesus came to humanity in the likeness of the first Adam. So when Jesus sacrificed his human life the only begotten Son of God didn't exist as a living soul or living person for parts of three days. Death is the opposite of life.

Phl 1:21 - For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Phl 1:22 - But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

Phl 1:23 - For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: