No that was not in there. Of course we forgive everyone. "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." Been a long time since I held anything against any one. Now I kinda chuckle when people do what they can not help but do. Thank you for your response. Have a Blessed day.
What does it mean to be born again?
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It's not about mind-games or make-believe but about the power of God to raise the dead to life. There's no need for religious mumbo-jumbo. It's not about words but the Spirit and power.
Rom. 7 shows Paul saying he can't stop sinning. Is that your experience? Or was he not trusting his own words enough?
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
What is not in there?
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 6:14-15
I'd have to answer, well, of course!
That's not exactly what he said there, though. At least not as I've read it. What I read is how he explains how sin works in our flesh, and the power we have over it. He explains how, and why it is that this power is real, effective. How we are actually dead to sin, even if, this is really important, even if it looks like we really aren't. It's a lie from the flesh, this disbelief, and will sabatoge our walk.
Sometimes God just gifts us with the faith that allows us to walk completely overcoming the flesh, or as nearly as may be, given that we aren't the one's to say. Oftentimes God simply trains us into the consistency of our faith that allows us to walk ever more consistently in the Spirit.
Having been reborn in God's Own pattern of righteousness and true holiness means that this is our own nature now. We have been moved from Adam to Christ.
But not all believe this to be true. Some believe in some overwhelming but non-specific "sin nature" that forces them to sin, or some variation on this theme. Some believe that we are working on becoming more holy and more righteous so that we can be more of both of those, or some variation of that. I've found some believe that you aren't even born again unless you've entirely stopped any sort of sin, and, of course, variations on that.
ANY other concept of believing, belief, trusting, that is not in fact Scriptural will not give you the full gift. Though in His grace and mercy, even so God gives us maturity if our hearts are truly for Him. But we can still hold to error, and still pass along error to others.
Anyone who knows me knows I hold to the plain sayings of the Scriptures, and those plain sayings are that we are baptised into Christ, and that this specifically means that we are baptised - immersed - into His death. That we are buried in death with Him through baptism, so that we can walk in newness of life, just as Jesus rose from the dead.
We're plainly told that this death is in fact our own death, and that this death has separated us from our flesh - the corrupt inheritance from Adam - which likewise separates us from our sin, and the source of it.
We're plainly told that we are to consider this to be actually true, and that we've actually been fully released from the power of sin, and of the flesh.
Reckon yourself dead indeed unto sin, and alive unto God in Jesus Christ our Lord. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind. If we aren't thinking right, if we are thinking in the old way, we are to begin to think the new way, according to truth, that we are free from sin, dead to sin, dead to the flesh, alive to righteousness, alive to God.
And then go through live serving others because we genuinely care about them. With gentleness, I heard this on the radio this morning, a great definition of gentleness, With a genuine desire for someone else's happiness in what you are doing for them. I liked that. To me it means with softness.
I completely agree with you here. But if we are not believing God gives us this power, we won't use it.
2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Much love!
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It amazes me how you have not heard nor understood the words that I have spoken. And I have spoken plainly. Be Blessed 1stCenturyLady!
Behold
Well-Known Member
That verse was given, before Jesus died for the sin of the world, because "God made Him to be sin for all of us".
If you read 2 Corinthians 5:19, then all the answers you need about sin, forgiveness and the reason this continues, is plainly revealed.
This is the religious mumbo-jumbo I was alluding to. "Even if it looks like we really aren't?" Talk about a departure from reality. Sin is sin. Calling sin something else than sin is not following the path of righteousness...but rather a way to formalize a religious escapism that denies the process of learning who we are and what the New Covenant is about. It would be like praying for a dead man to rise and then say (when he doesn't arise)...he just SEEMS dead now.
The disbelief is not in ourselves as being so great. We are not given the full measure of grace at the outset so often. God wants to see what we will do with the sample. Going half-baked into a pretended fulness within a "name it claim it" framework has to do with a drawing the wrong conclusion.
The inconsistency is in the flesh not the Spirit.
Not so fast. The higher walk comes at a great cost. We don't leave the old nature behind until we are crucified in the outer man.
This is not an issue of what we believe but what is. Paul speaks of a power to sin in his flesh in Rom. 7. This is a wake-up call...not an invitation to a deeper spiritual slumber.
Exactly. There is a difference between being translated into God's presence and assuming one is already there through a creative belief system.
Baptism salvation is an assuming that an outward sign is the equivalent to an inward transformation.
The New Covenant is not just a new way of thinking about old things. It is the power to walk as Jesus walked.
Yes, that's what it is when we don't walk according to faith, and begin again to walk according to sight, it's a departure from reality. Having been freed from sin, shall we continue to walk in it? Why would you suppose the apostle would ask such a question?
Is it because it's impossible to be truly free from sin having been freed from sin in Christ? Or is it because we are to reckon ourselves dead. And is doing so pretending something not true?
I'm serious . . . we need to believe the Scriptures.
Much love!
ScottA
Well-Known Member
You are somewhat correct, but ultimately wrong here--stuck in times.
The only "process of learning" is determined "by the same measure" one uses. Which is the measure of faith that is evident regarding whether or not we actually believe "old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." Those are the [biblical] terms.
I say "stuck in times" because, not fully believing "all things have become new", is a put-off, a position of one who's small amount of faith only allows a "wait-and-see" approach. Such skepticism is the fruit of unbelief.
To the contrary, a newly saved babe's first words should be "It is finished."
Don't you realize I'm not talking about water? I think you do actually. I was pretty specific. Hm. And actually I see several things in your reply that are like this. It's not useful.
Alright, I'll let my words stand.
Much love!
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1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
What He preached was about how the born again will behave. And Jesus remained sinless throughout His life and all He said, He said while sinless.
How God views sin was revealed in the Old Testament. Numbers 15:22-29, 30-36 about - Willful and unintentional sins. But the Jews had to memorize all 613 commandments.
The New Covenant is very different from the Old Covenant. We are only responsible to obey the laws God writes on our heart. Therefore, a baby Christian only has to live up to the first level of commandments, the big Ten by His power to be deemed sinless Then when we've fulfilled them by the power he give us, God writes more laws on our heart, and prunes the fruit is a progression called glorification Romans 8:30
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”
(btw we are already sanctified. Glorification is becoming like Christ Romans 8:29.)
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Wow. Your posts should be complete in themselves. You leave your audience with questions.
There is a heavy judgment against the idle ones of Zion. We are born again into a race....a desert walk towards possessing the Land. We are to seek first the kingdom of God.
Only Jesus can say...It is finished. We are in a process of salvation. We are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Many of us will fail the grace of God and be cut off....just as the Israelites were. We do well to learn by example.
Many who claim to be ultimately saved for having taken only one step into the race of faith...will be very disappointed on the day of judgment. There is such a lack of understanding of God's ways...
"until we are crucified in the outer man", would you quote some Scripture on what you have in mind there?
These are the passages concerning our being crucified,
Romans 6:6 KJV
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Again, being baptized - immersed - into Jesus Christ, this is being baptised in his death and burial, to be able to share His resurrection life.
It's what is done when we are baptized into Him.
Galatians 2:20 KJV
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
What Paul taught generally in Romans 6 he applied to himself here, giving more about it.
Galatians 5:24 KJV
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
And of course he goes on to say, if we live in the spirit, let us also walk in the spirit. He speaks in the same way as across the Scriptures, what has been accomplished in the spiritual realm, you are born again, you are a new creation, you have been created in God's Own pattern, in righteousness and true holiness, that we are to put off the old, and put on the new.
Stop living according to the old way, that's no longer you. Live the person that you have been reborn. Let the spirit life from God rule your body instead of yielding to the habits and ways of your old life.
Galatians 6:14 KJV
But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
It's in joining Jesus in His death that we are crucified to the world, and the world to us. Always back to the cross. Always. We don't put outselves there. We are joined to Jesus in His death, and we are crucified together with Him. We died just like He died, and now we live by His life in us.
Much love!
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Again, that is only partially correct.
But no, our "desert walk" is only in the world before crossing the Jordan. Which no, did not and does not take the rest of our life but "It is finished" that very day. And just as "sin is sin", to approach the Jordan and linger is to linger, or even be taken by the current.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You'll never prove that with a verse in the NT< but it works well if you are trying sound "spiritual".
THe reality is, the Grace of God, is Christ's Cross, ... its His sacrifice.
So, we dont get a part of that, when we are born again, and some more of it later.
The power to live above your flesh, is God's Grace, as deliverance.
That is found as Christ in you.
If God gives you a mission, then he will enable you to do it, as its not by your might, but by His "power" that God performs His will through us, as Paul teaches as "I can do all things Through Christ".
The Call of God, is the anointing of God for Service, regarding that call.
This is what happened to Peter in Acts 2.
He was anointed for the ministry.
Grrr…!
This makes no sense to me. At all.
Your understanding of trust (faith) has no hope to move into and overflow with. Hope plays no part. You just need to believe you are already dead to sin, even if it looks like you aren’t. You don’t hope for what you already have.
A woman slapped me the other day and I hit her really hard in return. (Not really). It may look like I’m not dead to sin but that’s just my flesh telling Me a lie. It’s disbelief. It will sabotage my walk if I believe I am not dead to sin even though I absolutely sinned.
It’s just preposterous to me. It looks to me like…you’ve done away with hope. It also begins to look to me like some form of name it, claim it.
Dead to sin means satan, (whether through your own mind and emotions or through manipulation of someone else’s flesh by him), has nothing to hook you by in order to manipulate you.
I will not speak with you much longer for the prince of this world is coming. He has no claim on Me, he has nothing in Me, he has nothing to hook Me by, he has no power over Me.
Oh never mind. I’m going back to silence.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
The "lie" (by the father of lies) followed God's promise and declaration that eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, saying "in the day you eat of it you shall surely die." He does not say you shall die after a lifetime of seemingly living--but that very day!
Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Genesis 1:15-17
And here is the "lie":Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die." Genesis 3:4
Incidentally...this is the lie that is still being told by those who say that in the day that you eat "also of the Tree of Life" (Christ) you will not surely live...that is, not until you spend the rest of your life in process.
Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— Genesis 3:22
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You are not understanding what I'm saying.
I'll try to discern from your words if there may be some other way I can express this to you. Some simply mischaracterize and dismiss my words, I get the sense that you may be wanting more than that.
But we've had many conversations.
Much love!
I can’t quite grasp what you’re trying to say. You absolutely will live eternally if you are born again with Gods Spirit. That’s what makes the outer darkness such a distressing thought. So while you will live forever, you will do so as either a vessel of honor or of dishonor.
That you will live eternally is not what I hear much disputed. Instead, what I hear is that every man who ever lived on earth will live forever and ever and came from the womb as an eternal being and that there is really no such thing as death, whether the first death or the second death.
So what I hear is that there’s really no such thing as death at all, for anyone. Which is still that first lie - you will not surely die.
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