The Holy Sacrament is Spiritual

[dev553344]

@Keturah I should also point out that Jesus was conceived with the Holy Spirit and the bible points out that he is a quickening spirit. So his body is holy spirit to the measure of body. That's what I believe.

 

[marksman]

Acts 2:46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

That shows that they continued in the breaking of bread and giving the sacrament.

Breaking of bread is a Middle Eastern term for having a meal.

 

[marksman]

You go on and on about Judaism. Have you ever attended a seder dinner? If so, you shared both bread and wine.

Dear me. Can you tell me where I mentioned Judaism?

 

[marksman]

Neither drinking wine nor sharing bread are forbidden in Jewish law.

Excuse me but it says "This my body"

 

[dev553344]

Breaking of bread is a Middle Eastern term for having a meal.

Do you have any scripture to support that? I don't see the breaking of bread anywhere in scripture except for the sacrament.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Human works are not evil...but they can't be mixed with divine works. That mixture produces iniquity. Human works are insufficient to be pleasing to God. However, we can still be accepted by God in our own strength with the proper attitude...humility, honesty. God doesn't expect us to do more with less.

A present salvation is available through abiding in Christ. The higher walk by the Spirit does the works created in advance. Those through whom those works are made manifest in this life get a reward in the next.

@Nancy,

As I said. works salvation

 

[Episkopos]

You give answers based on your legalistic mindset.

Actually the legalistic mindset is to say over and over in your head..."It's the cross" ....and then hide everything behind that. My approach is based on life. If it is life-giving...then it has value. If it about death without life....then it is based on vain religion.

I just take Jesus words for what he meant

I don't think you understand what Jesus meant. It has to be discerned spiritually...through life in the Spirit.

why is the cross such a failure to you?

How do you see the cross as a failure? Is it a failure based on a lack of power to crucify your flesh?


I think you have an idee fixe...based on a religious ideology...and since I don't fit into your box...you have no idea what I'm talking about...so you make stuff up like this.

How has jesus failed so much you think you have to add your work to the cross?

This kind of thinking comes from a religious view that sees Jesus hiding you sins rather than saving you from them by the power of grace through faith.

It's too easy to espouse a dead religion. My own faith is based on life. BTW...Jesus is off the cross. You can walk with Him. You can't walk with a Jesus that is crucified all the time. It is YOU that needs to go to the cross and see if there is power there.

Do you think the cross has power over your flesh? If so, seek the Lord at the throne of grace.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your reading skills would have to improve considerably to get what I'm saying.

Salvation NOW is by entering into Christ to walk in His life. Those who do so will receive a reward in the age to come. They will rule with Christ. They are saints.

Then there is a salvation based on mercy AND works on judgment day...not NOW. No race is judged until the end. So then you have to differentiate between walking in salvation today...through the resurrection power of Christ AND a future inheritance of salvation later for the righteous.



That's not what I'm saying at all. Again, reading skills.....very important.

Being saved NOW is by walking in the Spirit by faith. Being saved as an inheritance is later (on judgment day) and that is by works.

Even the saints are judged...but for them there is a reward...not just a place among the nations. The religious ones (pretenders) will be judged as being unfit for either the city (saints) or the nations (the righteous)....and will be cast into outer darkness.

I have seen your reading skills not improve throughout that whole time. You'd think you would have understood a little of what I explain in detail time and time again.

Your beliefs are very easy to remember as they are based on a simplistic ideology that even people with impaired reading skills can understand.

I read quite well my friend

Your trying to get in the back door through you works..

I am just tryign to stay with the simplicity that is in Christ. the narrow gate.. Not trying to make it difficult and unatainable.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Actually the legalistic mindset is to say over and over in your head..."It's the cross" ....and then hide everything behind that. My approach is based on life. If it is life-giving...then it has value. If it about death without life....then it is based on vain religion.


I don't think you understand what Jesus meant. It has to be discerned spiritually...through life in the Spirit.

You keep proving my point for me

Salvation is solely on the cross.. He purchased our salvation with his blood as he made atonement for us.. It is he who made propitiation for our sins. Not us

I am not hiding anything, I am just not ADDING things like you are doing

I understand completely what Jesus meant. and paul and the rest

We are SAVED by grace through faith and not work

for we are his WORKMANSHIP created in christ for good works

1st comes salvation

THEN come the works which procede from salvation. But those works are a result of salvation. Not a means to keep that salvation. That is basic works heresy. no different than the jews who tried to add the law

 

[Episkopos]

I read quite well my friend

Your trying to get in the back door through you works..

I am just tryign to stay with the simplicity that is in Christ. the narrow gate.. Not trying to make it difficult and unatainable.

Why are you trying to get in through the back door of religious beliefs? Going through the front door through Christ is through the cross....an encounter with the living God...by the power of the cross...and translation INTO Christ.

Jesus said how difficult it was... And rich people (almost all Western people are rich) have the hardest time entering into the kingdom. That makes it twice as hard for us as the early believers did...and THEY had a hard time of it.

And the word you read in the bible as "simplicity" is not what you think it means. It doesn't mean easy. (Remember, that Jesus said it wasn't easy????)

 

[marksman]

The sacrament was talked about already in the bible and re-enforced later in the bible. It's part of God giving us eternal life.

I will say this as nicely as I can. You have no idea what you are talking about. All you are doing is repeating what you have been told. I on the other hand have researched the scriptures and the teaching of many and it is clear it has nothing at all to do with a sacrament.

 

[marksman]

Do you have any scripture to support that? I don't see the breaking of bread anywhere in scripture except for the sacrament.

I have evidence of the history of Jewish life at that time which I have ascertained by reading books that explain the background of the New Testament. it took me two years to get through all the evidence, that is why I know what I am talking about.

 

[marks]

1st comes salvation

THEN come the works which procede from salvation. But those works are a result of salvation. Not a means to keep that salvation. That is basic works heresy. no different than the jews who tried to add the law

Amen!

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why are you trying to get in through the back door of religious beliefs? Going through the front door through Christ is through the cross....an encounter with the living God...by the power of the cross...and translation INTO Christ.

Jesus said how difficult it was... And rich people (almost all Western people are rich) have the hardest time entering into the kingdom. That makes it twice as hard for us as the early believers did...and THEY had a hard time of it.

And the word you read in the bible as "simplicity" is not what you think it means. It doesn't mean easy. (Remember, that Jesus said it wasn't easy????)

I am not trying to get in the back door. You are.

Why do you call people legalists. and all the names that fit you.

We are not trying to earn salvation by how good or how bad we are.. We know how bad we are and we laid our eternity at the cross..

Jesus said he can completely save us.. He did not say he needed our help

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I’m sure we can all agree at least on this - it’s an evil thing to be with others breaking bread and then break wind at the same time.

 

[dev553344]

I will say this as nicely as I can. You have no idea what you are talking about. All you are doing is repeating what you have been told. I on the other hand have researched the scriptures and the teaching of many and it is clear it has nothing at all to do with a sacrament.

OK marksman. So why did Jesus break bread and give wine and say this is my body and this is my blood. Do it in rememberance of me? Sorry you missed the point of remembering Jesus that way. Perhaps in some other way you will understand what that means.

 

[marks]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Instead of berating, why not show the evidence?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

You keep proving my point for me

Salvation is solely on the cross..

You are presently saved when YOU join Jesus on the cross in order to walk in HIS life...NOW.

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world..and demons also believe that. There is no reward for claiming Jesus' sacrifice for oneself. Jesus is the Lamb of GOD...not OUR Lamb.

He purchased our salvation with his blood as he made atonement for us.. It is he who made propitiation for our sins. Not us

But you can't name and claim Jesus as your sacrifice. It doesn't work that way. Otherwise every religious nut would become a Christian based on a false assumption. It's a good thing we have so many qualified bible teachers to warn people against that sort of thing.

I am not hiding anything, I am just not ADDING things like you are doing

Where am I adding? I think you are subtracting.

I understand completely what Jesus meant. and paul and the rest

At least, in your opinion, you do. I think you have gone right past the truth onto something else entirely. Saying you see...when you don't... is a disaster waiting to happen.

We are SAVED by grace through faith and not work

Presently yes. There are NO works possible to be translated into the heavenly walk. It is by faith. But not OUR faith...the faith OF Christ.

Salvation from sin and this world is by a miraculous walk in the Spirit...not some religious scheme based on human beliefs. Don't misunderstand the scale.

for we are his WORKMANSHIP created in christ for good works

1st comes salvation

THEN come the works which procede from salvation. But those works are a result of salvation. Not a means to keep that salvation. That is basic works heresy. no different than the jews who tried to add the law

In the higher walk...yes...that's true. No one can do the miraculous works of Christ unless they walk by grace...which is the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead. In HIS life we do HIS works that proceed from the salvation of Christ.

But you think that you always do this...without any reference to reality...because it's based on religion not the truth. There are a lot of phone scams out there ...for money. And there are a LOT of ministry scams out there...to fill pews and make money. Don't be a victim.

The lack of reality in evidence among so many evangelicals is based on adopting an ideology that tells people they are walking on a level that almost no one is actually walking on. It's like the emperor's new clothes. Look, they say, how clothed I am...whereas (as Jesus said) he is poor, naked, wretched and blind. But who listens to Jesus nowadays?

What do you do with all the verses you are ignoring? What do you do with all the verses that say we will all be judged by our works???
Rom. 2:6, 2 Cor. 5:10, 1 Pet. 1:17, Rev. 20:12 Ps. 62:12, Prov. 24:12

Do you have a bible handy?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are presently saved when YOU join Jesus on the cross in order to walk in HIS life...NOW.

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world..and demons also believe that. There is no reward for claiming Jesus' sacrifice for oneself. Jesus is the Lamb of GOD...not OUR Lamb.

see, you keep proving my point

You’re right, though Jesus is the lamb of God. You forgot about the part where it says he takes away the sin of the world

But you can't name and claim Jesus as your sacrifice. It doesn't work that way. Otherwise every religious nut would become a Christian based on a false assumption. It's a good thing we have so many qualified bible teachers to warn people against that sort of thing.

So I am supposed to in faith call out to Jesus for his gift.. like the tax collector did. but thats not enough?

Sorry bro. Jesus said the tax collector went home saved.

I can say a sinners prayer all i want. But unless I have true saving with. All i do is spout words.. Your trying to use easy believism as a means to support your works based gospel//

Where am I adding? I think you are subtracting.

At least, in your opinion, you do. I think you have gone right past the truth onto something else entirely.

What are you adding? Do your read your posts?

Presently yes. There are NO works possible to be translated into the heavenly walk. It is by faith. But not OUR faith...the faith OF Christ.

Salvation from sin and this world is by a miraculous walk in the Spirit...not some religious scheme based on human beliefs. You have the scale all wrong.

In the higher walk...yes...that's true. No one can do the miraculous works of Christ unless they walk by grace...which is the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead. In HIS life we do HIS works that proceed from the salvation of Christ.

But you think that you always do this...without any reference to reality...because it's based on religion not the truth.

The lack of reality in evidence among most evangelicals is based on adopting an ideology that tells people they are walking on a level that almost no one is actually walking on. It's like the emperor's new clothes. Look, they say, how clothed I am...whereas (as Jesus said) he is poor, naked, wretched and blind. But who listens to Jesus nowadays?

Here you go with works again Its all about you. Not christ.. To you it is christ plus. Or faith plus.

thats not what the word says

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are presently saved when YOU join Jesus on the cross in order to walk in HIS life...NOW.

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world..and demons also believe that. There is no reward for claiming Jesus' sacrifice for oneself. Jesus is the Lamb of GOD...not OUR Lamb.



But you can't name and claim Jesus as your sacrifice. It doesn't work that way. Otherwise every religious nut would become a Christian based on a false assumption. It's a good thing we have so many qualified bible teachers to warn people against that sort of thing.


Where am I adding? I think you are subtracting.

At least, in your opinion, you do. I think you have gone right past the truth onto something else entirely.




Presently yes. There are NO works possible to be translated into the heavenly walk. It is by faith. But not OUR faith...the faith OF Christ.

Salvation from sin and this world is by a miraculous walk in the Spirit...not some religious scheme based on human beliefs. You have the scale all wrong.

In the higher walk...yes...that's true. No one can do the miraculous works of Christ unless they walk by grace...which is the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead. In HIS life we do HIS works that proceed from the salvation of Christ.

But you think that you always do this...without any reference to reality...because it's based on religion not the truth. There are a lot of phone scams out there ...for money. And there are a LOT of ministry scams out there...to fill pews and make money. Don't be a victim.

The lack of reality in evidence among so many evangelicals is based on adopting an ideology that tells people they are walking on a level that almost no one is actually walking on. It's like the emperor's new clothes. Look, they say, how clothed I am...whereas (as Jesus said) he is poor, naked, wretched and blind. But who listens to Jesus nowadays?

Paul in 1 cor says we will all be at the judgment seat. And there will be reward. gold silver precious stone, wood hay and straw/ it will be tried by fire.. He then goes on to say that even the one who had all of his reward burnt as wood hey or straw. Is still saved even though as through fire.

This person had no fruit. He did not earn any reward. He has nothign to show for his work here on earth. Yet paul says he is saved.

can you explain to me who this person is in your belief system?