Coincidences? Or Time to WATCH be READY for the Day and Hour Is Near

[The Light]

Nope. The vials only start pouring after the 7th trump sounds.

At the 7th trumpet "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord" Armageddon has happened, Jeus has returned. The time that the dead are judged. It's over. It's done. It's finished. Complete. The vials are just a different view of things that happen during the wrath of God. When you are reading. Revelation 11 is the end of the story. What you read in Revelation 13 and 14 occurs in the seals. The seals are not opened and will not be open until the Church is in heaven.

 

[The Light]

You speak about oil and yet you are only half filled right now.

The evidence of such is that you are unable to discern CLEAR Scripture/Prophecy/Gospel/Apostles.

#1 - Matthew chapter24 pertains to:
a.) His Church/Elect/Saints/Believers = John 3:25-30 and Colossians 3:1-17 , 1 Peter 1:1-12 , Matt 23:37-39 , Romans ch11
b.) the GOSPEL is the Era/Time Period called 'Dispensation of Grace' = Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

#2 - Antichrist comes BEFORE the LORD Jesus Christ = spoken by the OT Prophets, Gospel, Apostles, Revelation
a.) Daniel 7:24-25 and Revelation chapters 12, 13, 14
The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

b.) 1 John 2:18
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.

c.) 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

None of this has to do with the rapture of the church.

 

[ewq1938]

At the 7th trumpet "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord" Armageddon has happened,

Armageddon doesn't happen when the 7th trump first sounds. The first 6 vials have to pour first before the beast moves troops there.

 

[The Light]

Armageddon doesn't happen when the 7th trump first sounds. The first 6 vials have to pour first before the beast moves troops there.

Yeah. I know. The trumpets and vials happen in the same timeframe.

 

[ewq1938]

Yeah. I know. The trumpets and vials happen in the same timeframe.

Not according to the bible.

 

[David in NJ]

None of this has to do with the rapture of the church.

In every aspect and every way it does.

You are currently mislead by false teaching and the LORD desires you to believe the Truth and the Truth will set you free.

the Time is Now to fill your Lamp with Holy Spirit Anointing = do not miss out

 

[Ronald Nolette]

To explain this to you takes a lot of effort. I found this website that gives a good explanation that will cut down on the necessary work. He gives a good explanation of the trumpets and vials. (Do not bother with his 70 week chart as it is in error.)

I have more proof beyond what is given at this website. If this does not do it for you I will be happy to continue.

This guy is a terrible student of the word! He comes up with his theory solely on the fact that the trumpets and bowls are done on teh same things.

He completely ignores that the results are completely different and the effects are different. sorry but that site is terrible.

 

[strepho]

I respect other people's beliefs. I don't believe in the rapture theory. Ezekiel chapter 13, God is against the fly away doctrine. Jesus told us 7 sign's in Matthew chapter 24, Luke chapter 13. Times of the end. Jesus taught in Matthew chapter 24, two working in the field. One taken away, and one stayed working in the field. The one's taking away are banking on the rapture theory. Ephesians chapter 6, those without gospel armory on, are defenseless against antichrist lies and deception. Gospel armory on is wisdom and knowledge of Gods word. Satan as antichrist will convert many people to his false doctrine. This isn't time to be illiterate of God's word. Psalm chapter 9, sheol is Hades, its holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked. Those who worshipped antichrist will go through wide gate to sheol. Jesus warns us in gospel of Luke, the wide gate leads to destruction.

 

[ewq1938]

I respect other people's beliefs. I don't believe in the rapture theory. Ezekiel chapter 13, God is against the fly away doctrine. Jesus told us 7 sign's in Matthew chapter 24, Luke chapter 13. Times of the end. Jesus taught in Matthew chapter 24, two working in the field. One taken away, and one stayed working in the field. The one's taking away are banking on the rapture theory. Ephesians chapter 6, those without gospel armory on, are defenseless against antichrist lies and deception. Gospel armory on is wisdom and knowledge of Gods word. Satan as antichrist will convert many people to his false doctrine. This isn't time to be illiterate of God's word. Psalm chapter 9, sheol is Hades, its holding place for the spirtualty dead or wicked. Those who worshipped antichrist will go through wide gate to sheol. Jesus warns us in gospel of Luke, the wide gate leads to destruction.

The word Rapture is actually very much in the bible and thus is quite biblical. One must merely do a little bit of studying in the original languages to understand that.

"harpazo" is the Greek word for "rapture".

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up HARPAZO/RAPTURE together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

When this verse was translated into Latin from Greek, the Greek word "harpazo" was replaced by the the Latin word "rapio" meaning "to catch up" or "take away" (the Latin noun "raptus" "a carrying off"). The Latin word “rapiemur” is the word St. Jerome used for “caught up” when he translated 1 Thess 4:17 in the Latin Vulgate Bible. So while the English word RAPTURE is not in scripture the Greek word HARPAZO is in scripture and it is the origin of the word rapture. So, yes, a rapture is very biblical. A pre-trib rapture is not biblical because Paul places the rapture after the tribulation and second coming and after the resurrection of the dead. The rapture then will come after the great tribulation has ended known as "post-trib".





The rapture is after the Great Tribulation has ended, after Christ's second coming begins, after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

 

[Timtofly]

You want to see the story again? You want a little more information of the same story? Read Revelation 13 and 14. That gives you more information of what happens in the seals. You want to see the 5th seal of Revelation, which occurs during the great tribulation of Matthew 24. Here.

This is where you are wrong. Revelation 13 is only about the 7th Trumpet. It is not about the Seals. Revelation 13 cannot happen until the 7th Trumpet already starts to sound.

Revelation 13 is during the days of the sound of the 7th Trumpet.

 

[Timtofly]

Do you see anything in the above verses that tell you that Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives? No. You see the gathering form heaven and earth. You see the second harvest. Here.

Jesus does not have to mention every OT prophet in the Olivet Discourse.

The only time Jesus comes to Jerusalem and the mount of Olives is the 6th Seal. The church is gathered and glorified in the 5th Seal. That is when the church is gathered from every corner of Paradise and raptured from every corner of the earth to meet the Lord in the air.

The church is the first harvest. The final harvest is when Jesus is on the earth with all the angels after the 6th Seal has been opened and Jesus totally rearranges the area around Jerusalem per Zechariah 14. The final harvest is during the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders.

The 6th Seal is when the thief in the night moment happens in 2 Peter 3 and all the works on earth are burned up. The heavens dissolve because all the stars are the angels coming to earth. The firmament is rolled back like a theater curtain, and all on earth can see the church glorified.

Of course Jesus is mentioned as the Lamb and comes in full wrath.

They can see the face of God sitting on the GWT.

They are hiding from both.

"And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Zechariah 14 talks about a geographical change. The 6th Seal is when all the mountains on earth are moved around. The Second Coming is when Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives. The mount of Olives is split in half, and moved. The angels come to earth in the 6th Seal.

"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

The Second Coming is all happening in a twinkling of an eye.

John slows it down and explains things in order, but they all happen so quick, everything will be over by the time those on earth ask that rhetorical question.

But the final harvest continues on earth during the Trumpets and Thunders. Jesus and the angels are on the earth all the way up unto the 7th Trumpet. The 144k are with Jesus on earth as well.

Jesus never mentions the 144k nor does Zechariah 14. Is John wrong about the 144k because only he mentions them?

You claim Scripture cannot talk about the same event unless every single detail is mentioned in every Scripture about that event. That is impossible. Not every Scripture gives every single detail.

John sees the angels come like leaves of a fig tree falling off. Peter sees them as the heavens dissolving and being burned up.


"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat."

Both are still the same event. The surprise of the Second Coming only happens one time.

"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

Both Peter and Paul are talking about the same event, the Second Coming.

Neither state the day of the Lord starts at the Second Coming. They say it comes. It approaches as a thief in the night. The final harvest has to happen on earth before the Day of the Lord can start. The final harvest is the time of Jacob's trouble. The fulness of the Gentiles is the tribulation of those days, the last 1993 years. Because Jesus said the NT church would always have trouble, trials, tribulation, and persecution. This would be ongoing until the end comes. Or until the end approaches.

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

Jesus never says the church is here until the end. He said the gospel would be given, all the way, up until the end. We see in Revelation an angel is one of those last gospel givers:

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"

There is overlap between the Second Coming and the end. The Second Coming is not the end. The Second Coming happens to let us know the Day of the Lord will start soon. This time of greatest trouble ever is between the Second Coming and the Day of the Lord.

 

[Timtofly]

Nope. As shown above, Jesus comes for a harvest at the 6th seal. He does not sit on the throne on earth until the 7th trumpet.

You just got done saying the Trumpets are in the Seals. They happen at the same time, but yet Jesus comes twice.

You are not consistent. If they happen at the same time, then it is the same coming, and Jesus only comes once. You said it was two views of the same event.

I said that Jesus is on earth during the final harvest.

Matthew 25:31 Jesus is sitting on a throne in Jerusalem after Zechariah 14 happens.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

Matthew 13:36-40 Jesus explains the parable in simple and clear terms:

"Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; (Jesus is on the earth after the Second Coming sowing the gospel seed in person) The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; (Satan is out in the open deceiveing people at the same time) the harvest is the end of the world (some would say the end of this current age, before the Day of the Lord) ; and the reapers are the angels. (the angels are on the earth, not the church) As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world."

This is clearly Jesus pointing out that the Second Coming brings Jesus and the angels to the earth. This final harvest is after the church is gathered from Paradise and the earth and glorified. The angels and Jesus are not on earth working secretly prior to the Second Coming. The church is not glorified after the final harvest. The 5th Seal happens prior to the 6th Seal. The 5th Seal does not happen in Revelation 19.

Revelation 13 does not happen until after the first 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders. Revelation 13 is the 3rd woe that only happens after the 7th Trumpet has already started to sound. The 5th Trumpet was the 1st woe. The 6th Trumpet was the 2nd woe. The 7th Trumpet contains the 3rd woe. The 7 Thunders happen between the 6th and 7th Trumpet.

So the 3rd woe, Revelation 13, does not happen before the first 2 woes in the Seals. That is you trying to force fit the "left behind series" a human invention into Scripture.

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. And the seventh angel sounded;"

The third woe is not until after the 7th Trumpet sounds. That is the chronological order. The third woe is Satan coming to earth after being kicked out of heaven for the last time, all after the 7th Trumpet has already started to sound.

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

The 7th Trumpet is victory in heaven, but the 3rd woe to them on the earth. That is the explanation of the third woe. Revelation 13 is Satan given 42 months to set up his Babylonian empire. That is the 3rd woe. Revelation 13, 16, 17, 18, and 19 are about this empire Satan creates and is destroyed by Revelation 19. It only last for 42 months. It begins in the midst of the week of the 7th Trumpet. That is a set of 7 days. The same set of 7 days mentioned in Daniel 9:27.

Those reading Matthew 24 are expected to also understand Daniel 9:27. John in Revelation sets out the chronological order. He was the witness to the events, even though they are still future to us.

If the "left behind series" was truly portrayed in a movie series, they would all have to be rated R for gore and violence. It would not be family friendly. This is about the time of greatest trouble, even greater than Noah's Flood. People drowning is one thing. Even people burned at the stake will not compare to the trouble humans will face during the Trumpets and Thunders. Then Satan will be allowed to set up the worse abomination and time of desolation greater than any human can imagine. The third woe will be beyond human imagination, because Satan has never been allowed to implement his imagination onto humanity in totality. All we see today is mild compared to what will be allowed those last 42 months, the 3rd woe.

"Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Satan's wrath is not just against the saints. It is against all that God created. Both land and sea. And the saints will not be around to suffer.

"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman,"

The saints will be in a place of safety unharmed by what transpires over the next 42 months. Jesus and the 144k will not be on earth, but heavenly zion.

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand,"

The only ones left on earth will be those who chop their heads off, the beheaded. And the 2 witnesses, who are killed after the 42 months are over. Revelation 11 is only about the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. Even the 2 witnesses are after the 7th Trumpet starts to sound.

 

[Timtofly]

How you can even think rationally is beyond me. the bible is created with Grammar! god created grammar and makes sure His word is written in an understandable way for His children to learn, grow and obey. Grammar is always an essential foundation for understanidng Scripture.

If you have no knowledge of grammar, you cannot even hope to understand what is written or spoken.

I did not say the Bible lacked grammar.

I said you have not shown me one verse in grammatical fashion that refutes what I posted. I cannot read your mind, only your posts.

All I see is you posting discouragement and personal attacks on other posters.

You have no clue what I know about grammar. You cannot read my mind either, only my posts.

Obviously you cannot understand my rationale. That is why you disagree with my post. That is a given without you needing to explain yourself. You have yet to prove your own points.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I did not say the Bible lacked grammar.

I said you have not shown me one verse in grammatical fashion that refutes what I posted. I cannot read your mind, only your posts.

All I see is you posting discouragement and personal attacks on other posters.

You have no clue what I know about grammar. You cannot read my mind either, only my posts.

Obviously you cannot understand my rationale. That is why you disagree with my post. That is a given without you needing to explain yourself. You have yet to prove your own points.

NO I don't know all you know about grammar. all I can see is how you butcher the Wcriptures with your reinterpretations of simple words and simple sentences.

I have shown you many points where you failed grammatically. but you will not listen because you have posted a position here and to recant that position is to admit it was opinion and face rejection.

 

[Timtofly]

NO I don't know all you know about grammar. all I can see is how you butcher the Wcriptures with your reinterpretations of simple words and simple sentences.

I have shown you many points where you failed grammatically. but you will not listen because you have posted a position here and to recant that position is to admit it was opinion and face rejection.

Every post is a person's opinion. Unless it is a verse from Scripture, and that still can be their opinion.

If you can change what God's Word states, you can change my opinion.

My position is that the Day of the Lord is the full 1,000 years, not a 24 hour period.

What do you call the 1,000 years the Lord Jesus Christ is ruling on the earth? How are you going to change God's Word, grammatically to prove your point?

 

[The Light]

This guy is a terrible student of the word! He comes up with his theory solely on the fact that the trumpets and bowls are done on teh same things.

He completely ignores that the results are completely different and the effects are different. sorry but that site is terrible.

You are expecting the same result? Why would you think the result would be the same? One group of verses is telling you what is happening when John sees the trumpets blown and other verses are telling you what happens when John sees the vials poured out. There would be no point in repeating the same information again. The point that is made is that the trumpets and vials occur in the same timeframe. This is certainly not the only proof. To me this just confirms what the others verse say.

The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet. Jesus has returned, Armageddon is over. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord. Judgement happens and the story is over. What you see in the vials occurs in the same timeframe as the trumpets.

 

[The Light]

This is where you are wrong. Revelation 13 is only about the 7th Trumpet. It is not about the Seals.

The things in Revelation 13 occur in the seals. Period.

Revelation 13 cannot happen until the 7th Trumpet already starts to sound.

Revelation 13 is during the days of the sound of the 7th Trumpet.

Nah. Rev 13 occurs during the tribulation. The tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins.

 

[The Light]

Jesus does not have to mention every OT prophet in the Olivet Discourse.

I know.

The only time Jesus comes to Jerusalem and the mount of Olives is the 6th Seal.

Totally wrong brother. Jesus remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Here we see the harvest that occurs at the 6th seal.
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

The church is gathered and glorified in the 5th Seal. That is when the church is gathered from every corner of Paradise and raptured from every corner of the earth to meet the Lord in the air.

The Church is already in heaven BEFORE the seals are opened. The 70th week of Daniel has nothing to do with the Church. It is the time of Jacobs trouble. How do you not know this?

The church is the first harvest.

Ok. If you want to say the first harvest is the grain harvest, that would be correct. But the harvest starts with the dead in Christ, the barley harvest. Then the alive Church is caught up, the wheat harvest. So yes, the 1st harvest is the grain harvest followed by the fruit harvest which occurs in the fall.

The final harvest is when Jesus is on the earth with all the angels after the 6th Seal has been opened and Jesus totally rearranges the area around Jerusalem per Zechariah 14. The final harvest is during the 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders.

Ok. The final harvest, the fruit harvest is when Jesus remains in the clouds at the 6th seal. Jesus does not set His feet on the earth at this time. He remains in the clouds as already shown. The trumpets and thunders cannot happen until the 7th seal is opened.

The 6th Seal is when the thief in the night moment happens in 2 Peter 3 and all the works on earth are burned up. The heavens dissolve because all the stars are the angels coming to earth. The firmament is rolled back like a theater curtain, and all on earth can see the church glorified.

Bingo.

Of course Jesus is mentioned as the Lamb and comes in full wrath.

They can see the face of God sitting on the GWT.

They are hiding from both.

No. This is not the great white throne judgement. AS SHOWN. Jesus is in the clouds for the second harvest. The fall fruit harvest. Wrath begins after this harvest.

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

As I said, Revelation 14 occurs in the seals. We Jesus come and wrath getting ready to begin at the 6th seal. We see the exact same thing in Revelation 14

"And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Zechariah 14 talks about a geographical change. The 6th Seal is when all the mountains on earth are moved around. The Second Coming is when Jesus returns to the Mount of Olives. The mount of Olives is split in half, and moved. The angels come to earth in the 6th Seal.

"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

The Second Coming is all happening in a twinkling of an eye.

John slows it down and explains things in order, but they all happen so quick, everything will be over by the time those on earth ask that rhetorical question.

Some of this is right but Zechariah 14 happens at the end of the trumpets. The sixth seal has nothing to do with the trumpets. The trumpets happen after the 7th seal is opened.

But the final harvest continues on earth during the Trumpets and Thunders.

No. The final harvest occurs with the coming of Jesus TO THE CLOUDS at the 6th seal. It happens IMMEDIATIELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days. And THEN the wrath of God BEGINS.

Jesus and the angels are on the earth all the way up unto the 7th Trumpet. The 144k are with Jesus on earth as well.

Jesus never mentions the 144k nor does Zechariah 14. Is John wrong about the 144k because only he mentions them?

The 144,000 are sealed. If you understood that when you are in Revelation 14 you are back in the seals. It's all over at the 7th trumpet. What you see in Rev 13 and 14 occurs in the seals.

This occurs in the 5th seal.
Rev 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

This occurs at the 6th seal
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Which is also THIS.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You claim Scripture cannot talk about the same event unless every single detail is mentioned in every Scripture about that event. That is impossible. Not every Scripture gives every single detail.

I don't recall claiming that. Can you post my quote?

John sees the angels come like leaves of a fig tree falling off. Peter sees them as the heavens dissolving and being burned up.


"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat."

Both are still the same event. The surprise of the Second Coming only happens one time.

"For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

Both Peter and Paul are talking about the same event, the Second Coming.

This is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. It is not the coming of Jesus at the 7th trumpet. He comes at the 6th seal and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. He comes at the 7th trumpet to set up His kingdom. They are NOT the same event.

This time of greatest trouble ever is between the Second Coming and the Day of the Lord.

No. The greatest trouble occurs PRIOR to the 6th seal. The tribulation is OVER when Jesus comes at the 6th seal. He remains in the clouds. Then the wrath of God begins. The second harvest occur at the 6th seal.

 

[David in NJ]

You just got done saying the Trumpets are in the Seals. They happen at the same time, but yet Jesus comes twice.

You are not consistent. If they happen at the same time, then it is the same coming, and Jesus only comes once. You said it was two views of the same event.

I said that Jesus is on earth during the final harvest.

Matthew 25:31 Jesus is sitting on a throne in Jerusalem after Zechariah 14 happens.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

Matthew 13:36-40 Jesus explains the parable in simple and clear terms:

"Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; (Jesus is on the earth after the Second Coming sowing the gospel seed in person) The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; (Satan is out in the open deceiveing people at the same time) the harvest is the end of the world (some would say the end of this current age, before the Day of the Lord) ; and the reapers are the angels. (the angels are on the earth, not the church) As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world."

This is clearly Jesus pointing out that the Second Coming brings Jesus and the angels to the earth. This final harvest is after the church is gathered from Paradise and the earth and glorified. The angels and Jesus are not on earth working secretly prior to the Second Coming. The church is not glorified after the final harvest. The 5th Seal happens prior to the 6th Seal. The 5th Seal does not happen in Revelation 19.

Revelation 13 does not happen until after the first 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders. Revelation 13 is the 3rd woe that only happens after the 7th Trumpet has already started to sound. The 5th Trumpet was the 1st woe. The 6th Trumpet was the 2nd woe. The 7th Trumpet contains the 3rd woe. The 7 Thunders happen between the 6th and 7th Trumpet.

So the 3rd woe, Revelation 13, does not happen before the first 2 woes in the Seals. That is you trying to force fit the "left behind series" a human invention into Scripture.

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. And the seventh angel sounded;"

The third woe is not until after the 7th Trumpet sounds. That is the chronological order. The third woe is Satan coming to earth after being kicked out of heaven for the last time, all after the 7th Trumpet has already started to sound.

"Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

The 7th Trumpet is victory in heaven, but the 3rd woe to them on the earth. That is the explanation of the third woe. Revelation 13 is Satan given 42 months to set up his Babylonian empire. That is the 3rd woe. Revelation 13, 16, 17, 18, and 19 are about this empire Satan creates and is destroyed by Revelation 19. It only last for 42 months. It begins in the midst of the week of the 7th Trumpet. That is a set of 7 days. The same set of 7 days mentioned in Daniel 9:27.

Those reading Matthew 24 are expected to also understand Daniel 9:27. John in Revelation sets out the chronological order. He was the witness to the events, even though they are still future to us.

If the "left behind series" was truly portrayed in a movie series, they would all have to be rated R for gore and violence. It would not be family friendly. This is about the time of greatest trouble, even greater than Noah's Flood. People drowning is one thing. Even people burned at the stake will not compare to the trouble humans will face during the Trumpets and Thunders. Then Satan will be allowed to set up the worse abomination and time of desolation greater than any human can imagine. The third woe will be beyond human imagination, because Satan has never been allowed to implement his imagination onto humanity in totality. All we see today is mild compared to what will be allowed those last 42 months, the 3rd woe.

"Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Satan's wrath is not just against the saints. It is against all that God created. Both land and sea. And the saints will not be around to suffer.

"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman,"

The saints will be in a place of safety unharmed by what transpires over the next 42 months. Jesus and the 144k will not be on earth, but heavenly zion.

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand,"

The only ones left on earth will be those who chop their heads off, the beheaded. And the 2 witnesses, who are killed after the 42 months are over. Revelation 11 is only about the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. Even the 2 witnesses are after the 7th Trumpet starts to sound.

Daniel ch7 , Matthew ch24 , 2 Thess ch2 , 1 John ch2 and Revelation chapters 12, 13 , 14 all say/agree that the Saints are on earth during the rise of the Antichrist.

Daniel 7:20-22
The LORD Jesus Christ does not Return/Second Coming until AFTER the Antichrist is revealed and in power.
and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.
“I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, until the Ancient of Days came

Matthew ch24
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

2 Thess ch2
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

Revelation 12:11
They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony.
And they did not love their lives
so as to shy away from death.

Revelation 13:7
Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation.

Revelation 14:11-13
there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

 

[The Light]

You just got done saying the Trumpets are in the Seals.

The trumpets are in the seals. The trumpets are the 7th seal. They are the wrath of God. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal when Jesus comes. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.

They happen at the same time, but yet Jesus comes twice.

You are not consistent. If they happen at the same time, then it is the same coming, and Jesus only comes once. You said it was two views of the same event.

I am consistent. Trumpets happen in the 7th seal. Jesus comes at the 6th seal for the second harvest. Wrath then begins. At the end of wrath, Jesus comes again and sets up His kingdom.

I said that Jesus is on earth during the final harvest.

Matthew 25:31 Jesus is sitting on a throne in Jerusalem after Zechariah 14 happens.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

This happens at the end of the trumpets. This is not the same as the 6th seal. The 6th seal is a harvest prior to the Marriage Supper. Jacob had two brides.

What you are posting occurs at the 7th trumpet.

Rev 11
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The 5th Seal happens prior to the 6th Seal. The 5th Seal does not happen in Revelation 19.

I know. I'm not sure what I said that made you think that I believed that.

Revelation 13 does not happen until after the first 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders.

Rev 13 happens in the seals. The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet. Then we get another view of the seals in Rev 13 and 214

Revelation 13 is the 3rd woe that only happens after the 7th Trumpet has already started to sound.

No. You have drawn a wrong conclusion.

The 5th Trumpet was the 1st woe. The 6th Trumpet was the 2nd woe. The 7th Trumpet contains the 3rd woe. The 7 Thunders happen between the 6th and 7th Trumpet.

Bingo

So the 3rd woe, Revelation 13, does not happen before the first 2 woes in the Seals.

Rev 13 is not the third woe. Wrong conclusion. It's all over at the 7th trumpet. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of your Lord. That means Armageddon is over. Jesus has set up His kingdom on earth. It is the time of judgement. Rev 13 gives you another view of the seals.

That is you trying to force fit the "left behind series" a human invention into Scripture.

"The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. And the seventh angel sounded;"

The third woe is not until after the 7th Trumpet sounds.

Agreed

That is the chronological order.

Agreed

The third woe is Satan coming to earth after being kicked out of heaven for the last time, all after the 7th Trumpet has already started to sound.

Satan come to earth at the 6th seal. He does not come at the 7th trumpet.