Coincidences? Or Time to WATCH be READY for the Day and Hour Is Near

[ewq1938]

The Church will be in heaven before the throne of God before the Antichrist is revealed.

That doesn't come from the bible plus Paul specifically said the rapture will not happen until the man of sin is revealed.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,, the son of perdition;



The rapture can't happen today or even very soon. Paul said two major events have to happen before the rapture happens.

1. Part of the church commits Apostasy.
2. The man of sin is revealed.

That places the rapture after the Great Tribulation has started making Pre-trib impossible.

 

[ewq1938]

No, this is not correct. We are seeing raptured believers in heaven before the throne.

Nowhere does the passage say they were raptured. You are adding that via eisegesis.

 

[David in NJ]

The Church will be in heaven before the throne of God before the Antichrist is revealed. Maybe you don't understand that the final week is about the people of Daniel and nothing whatsoever to do with the Church.

Your statement is False prophecy.

Your spirit is nourished from the words of God which you can drink from in Post #398 or read them from your bible.

 

[David in NJ]

No, this is not correct. We are seeing raptured believers in heaven before the throne. The dead in Christ and alive believers will be caught up in too separate raptures, the barley and wheat harvests. Then at the 6th seal we have the fruit harvest which we can see here.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

So those are definitely raptured believers that are in heaven for the marriage supper...........here.

Revelation 19
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

YES, we can SEE Believers in Heaven in Revelation but ONLY their spirits = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/DIED in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede(go before) those who have died/fallen asleep.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

 

[The Light]

Nowhere does the passage say they were raptured. You are adding that via eisegesis.

Ok caught up.

 

[David in NJ]

Good Nite @ewq1938 and @The Light

 

[The Light]

YES, we can SEE Believers in Heaven in Revelation but ONLY their spirits = 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope.
For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep/DIED in Him.

By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord
will by no means precede(go before) those who have died/fallen asleep.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.

After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

I have already showed you, you are in error.

 

[The Light]

Your statement is False prophecy.

Your spirit is nourished from the words of God which you can drink from in Post #398 or read them from your bible.

Ok, so you think these are just coincidences. They sure are adding up.

 

[ewq1938]

Ok caught up.

That's still a rapture. The passage doesn't say they were caught up.

There's way too many there to be the people raptured anyways. This is the timeframe of the eternity when all saved people are there before the throne. All the language about not hungering or being thirsty or the sun lighting on them and no more tears matches the eternity language of Rev 21.

 

[David in NJ]

Ok, so you think these are just coincidences. They sure are adding up.

There is definite Timing in Scripture - the KEY is in the Hands of God and no one will be able to predict/count the Day of His Coming.

The most accurate formula to follow is found in the scriptures i posted in #398.

Keep this in your mind at all times when looking at Revelation.

Rev 6:9-11
And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?”
Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.

Rev 14:9-13
And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

 

[The Light]

There is definite Timing in Scripture - the KEY is in the Hands of God and no one will be able to predict/count the Day of His Coming.

Is that what scripture says?

The most accurate formula to follow is found in the scriptures i posted in #398.

Those things in #398 have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the rapture of the Church. They have to do with the gathering form heaven and earth and the beginning of the day of the Lord. Not the same things.

Is the Lord Himself coming for His bride at the gathering from heaven and earth. No. He is sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

Keep this in your mind at all times when looking at Revelation.

Rev 6:9-11
And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?”
Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.

Rev 14:9-13
And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”

This is the great tribulation. The Church will be gone before the seals are opened.

 

[David in NJ]

Is that what scripture says?


Those things in #398 have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the rapture of the Church. They have to do with the gathering form heaven and earth and the beginning of the day of the Lord. Not the same things.

Is the Lord Himself coming for His bride at the gathering from heaven and earth. No. He is sending His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

This is the great tribulation. The Church will be gone before the seals are opened.

Why do you choose to believe in a fantasy from false teaching?

God said = No rapture until the Resurrection at His Second Coming which comes AFTER the Antichrist and his Mark.

God never said 'pre-trib rapture'.

God never said "the Church will be gone before the Seals are opened".

 

[The Light]

Why do you choose to believe in a fantasy from false teaching?

I don't know anything about this false teaching. I never read anything from John Nelson Darby or anyone else. I read the Word of God. That tells me when He is coming. It also tells me about the foolish virgins that have no lamp oil and cannot see.

God said = No rapture until the Resurrection at His Second Coming which comes AFTER the Antichrist and his Mark.

Sorry. God said no gathering from HEAVEN AND EARTH and no DAY OF THE LORD until after the Antichrist. Maybe you should read a little closer and understand a lots more.

God never said 'pre-trib rapture'.

He did say that the 70th week is about the people of Daniel. He did say that the part of the Jews could not see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

God never said "the Church will be gone before the Seals are opened".

He does show 24 elders WITH CROWNS and kings and priest in heaven before the seals are opened.

You lack understanding brother.

 

[David in NJ]

I don't know anything about this false teaching. I never read anything from John Nelson Darby or anyone else. I read the Word of God. That tells me when He is coming. It also tells me about the foolish virgins that have no lamp oil and cannot see.

Sorry. God said no gathering from HEAVEN AND EARTH and no DAY OF THE LORD until after the Antichrist. Maybe you should read a little closer and understand a lots more.


He did say that the 70th week is about the people of Daniel. He did say that the part of the Jews could not see until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.


He does show 24 elders WITH CROWNS and kings and priest in heaven before the seals are opened.

You lack understanding brother.

You speak about oil and yet you are only half filled right now.

The evidence of such is that you are unable to discern CLEAR Scripture/Prophecy/Gospel/Apostles.

#1 - Matthew chapter24 pertains to:
a.) His Church/Elect/Saints/Believers = John 3:25-30 and Colossians 3:1-17 , 1 Peter 1:1-12 , Matt 23:37-39 , Romans ch11
b.) the GOSPEL is the Era/Time Period called 'Dispensation of Grace' = Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

#2 - Antichrist comes BEFORE the LORD Jesus Christ = spoken by the OT Prophets, Gospel, Apostles, Revelation
a.) Daniel 7:24-25 and Revelation chapters 12, 13, 14
The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

b.) 1 John 2:18
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.

c.) 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The 70th week of Daniel is not called the wrath of God. The 70th week of Daniel contains both the tribulation period, the 1st 6 seals and the wrath of God which is the 7th seal. We can also see the wrath of God in the vials or bowl which occur in the same timeframe as the trumpets.

The seals are separate from the trumpets which are separate from the vials. The trumpets and vials run concurrently not simultaneously.

Here are the events of the sixth seal. Please show a second rapture here.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The bible mentions no rapture here- so why should anyone else?

The 70th week of Daniel is not called the wrath of God. The 70th week of Daniel contains both the tribulation period, the 1st 6 seals and the wrath of God which is the 7th seal. We can also see the wrath of God in the vials or bowl which occur in the same timeframe as the trumpets.

Well the 70th week is the tribulation period. The major reason for the tribulation is to prepare Israel to receive Jesus as Messiah as a nation.

I have come to believe the first 5 seals are pre trib, but that is a minor point we do not need to discuss. However the whole 7 years or 70th week is the wrath of God being poured out!

Teh sixth seal is simply a declaration that the wrath of god has commenced. It is the beginning of divine judgments.

He will wear a stephanos as He will be head of the UN as the stephanos is their symbol. The first seal is the false Christ.

Well, I said the AC is the rider of the white horse. But head of the UN? Could be or not! time will tell. Teh UN may not even exist when all this begins to come to pass.

 

[David in NJ]

The opening of the Seals is not the wrath of God until the 6th Seal when the LAMB applies His Wrath.

The 5th Seal unequivocally and without prejudice proves this: Revelation 6:9-11

And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?”
Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.


The 6th Seal contains the wrath of God is in accordance with Prophecy/Gospel/Apostles: Revealtion 6:12-17

And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.
Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

 

[The Light]

The seals are separate from the trumpets which are separate from the vials. The trumpets and vials run concurrently not simultaneously.

The seals are seperate from the trumpets but the turmpets and vials happen in the same timeframe.

Here are the events of the sixth seal. Please show a second rapture here.

The bible mentions no rapture here- so why should anyone else?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Are you able to read those verses in Matthew 24 and comprehend that Jesus comes in power and glory?

Are you able to comprehend the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars?

So in Matthew 24 we have the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars and Jesus comes and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Are you able to see the cosmic signs of the sun, moon and stars in Revelation 6. If Jesus comes in Matthew 24 when we see those cosmic signs you ought to be able to determine that JESUS COMES AT THE THE 6TH SEAL BEFORE WRATH.

The fact that most people do not understand this does not change the fact that Jesus comes at the 6th seal BEFORE WRATH.

Well the 70th week is the tribulation period.

Only the 1st 5 seals are the tribulation period. Then Jesus comes at the 6th seal. Look back at Matthew 24:29. It says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" Then we get the cosmic signs and then Jesus and sends His angels for the gathering. We again see those cosmic signs at the 6th seal. From that we can determine that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins. Wrath lasts for one year.

The major reason for the tribulation is to prepare Israel to receive Jesus as Messiah as a nation.

Yes. The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel.

I have come to believe the first 5 seals are pre trib, but that is a minor point we do not need to discuss.

The 1st 5 seals are the tribulation. The tribulation is over and then Jesus comes at the 6th seal. I have been saying the 1st six seals are the tribulation but really the tribulation is over before Jesus comes at the 6th seal.

However the whole 7 years or 70th week is the wrath of God being poured out!

No sir. It is the dragon that brings tribulation on the seed of the woman, which is the 12 tribes across the earth. The wrath of God only lasts for 1 year.

Teh sixth seal is simply a declaration that the wrath of god has commenced. It is the beginning of divine judgments.

No. Jesus comes at the 6th seal for the gathering from heaven and earth. Then the wrath of God begins with the blowing of the first trumpet after the 7th seal is opened.

Well, I said the AC is the rider of the white horse. But head of the UN? Could be or not! time will tell. Teh UN may not even exist when all this begins to come to pass.

He is given the stephanos crown which is the symbol of the UN. All this is about to begin or all these things are coincidences.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The seals are seperate from the trumpets but the turmpets and vials happen in the same timeframe.

I await your biblical evidence. All the trumpets are different from the vials! According to you have God destroying 1/3 of te waters, then immediately turning around and destroying all the waters!!!!!!! YOu really believe that?

I await your biblical evidence these occur simultaneously

 

[The Light]

I await your biblical evidence. All the trumpets are different from the vials! According to you have God destroying 1/3 of te waters, then immediately turning around and destroying all the waters!!!!!!! YOu really believe that?

I await your biblical evidence these occur simultaneously

To explain this to you takes a lot of effort. I found this website that gives a good explanation that will cut down on the necessary work. He gives a good explanation of the trumpets and vials. (Do not bother with his 70 week chart as it is in error.)

I have more proof beyond what is given at this website. If this does not do it for you I will be happy to continue.

 

[ewq1938]

The seals are seperate from the trumpets but the turmpets and vials happen in the same timeframe.

Nope. The vials only start pouring after the 7th trump sounds.