The answer of hell and its origins

[The Learner]

Yes it is, this scripture proves Jesus was resurrected with a spirit body.

Nope,

Your Content
1 Peter 3
Easy-to-Read Version
Wives and Husbands
3 In the same way, you wives should be willing to serve your husbands. Then, even those who have refused to accept God’s teaching will be persuaded to believe because of the way you live. You will not need to say anything. 2 Your husbands will see the pure lives that you live with respect for God. 3 It is not fancy hair, gold jewelry, or fine clothes that should make you beautiful. 4 No, your beauty should come from inside you—the beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit. That beauty will never disappear. It is worth very much to God.

5 It was the same with the holy women who lived long ago and followed God. They made themselves beautiful in that same way. They were willing to serve their husbands. 6 I am talking about women like Sarah. She obeyed Abraham, her husband, and called him her master. And you women are true children of Sarah if you always do what is right and are not afraid.

7 In the same way, you husbands should live with your wives in an understanding way, since they are weaker than you. You should show them respect, because God gives them the same blessing he gives you—the grace of true life. Do this so that nothing will stop your prayers from being heard.

Suffering for Doing Right
8 So all of you should live together in peace. Try to understand each other. Love each other like brothers and sisters. Be kind and humble. 9 Don’t do wrong to anyone to pay them back for doing wrong to you. Or don’t insult anyone to pay them back for insulting you. But ask God to bless them. Do this because you yourselves were chosen to receive a blessing. 10 The Scriptures say,

“If you want to enjoy true life
and have only good days,
then avoid saying anything hurtful,
and never let a lie come out of your mouth.
11 Stop doing what is wrong, and do good.
Look for peace, and do all you can to help people live peacefully.
12 The Lord watches over those who do what is right,
and he listens to their prayers.
But he is against those who do evil.”

13 If you are always trying to do good, no one can really harm you. 14 But you may suffer for doing right. If that happens, you have God’s blessing. “Don’t be afraid of the people who make you suffer; don’t be worried.”(Quote from Isa. 8:12.) 15 But keep the Lord Christ holy in your hearts. Always be ready to answer everyone who asks you to explain about the hope you have. 16 But answer them in a gentle way with respect. Keep your conscience clear. Then people will see the good way you live as followers of Christ, and those who say bad things about you will be ashamed of what they said.

17 It is better to suffer for doing good than for doing wrong. Yes, it is better if that is what God wants.

18 Christ himself suffered when he died for you,
and with that one death he paid for your sins.
He was not guilty,
but he died for people who are guilty.
He did this to bring all of you to God.
In his physical form he was killed,
but he was made alive by the Spirit.[Or “in the spirit.” Also in verse 19.

Note: The spirits in prision were in the grave.

19 And by the Spirit he went and preached to the spirits in prison. 20 Those were the spirits who refused to obey God long ago in the time of Noah. God was waiting patiently for people while Noah was building the big boat. And only a few—eight in all—were saved in the boat through the floodwater. 21 And that water is like baptism, which now saves you. Baptism is not the washing of dirt from the body. It is asking God for a clean conscience. It saves you because Jesus Christ was raised from death. 22 Now he has gone into heaven. He is at God’s right side and rules over angels, authorities, and powers.

 

[Jack]

Basic Kingdom Hall doctrine: The Bible doesn't mean what it says. It means what Kingdom Hall says.

 

[The Learner]

You can deny that Jesus sacrificed his human body, but the scriptures show that Jesus did sacrifice his human body, he didn't take back the sacrifice. Jesus when resurrected was given immortality and inherited incorruption which no human being has. Jesus certainly didn't have immortality nor was he incorruptible before he sacrificed his human life.

1 Timothy 2:5
There is only one God, and there is only one way that people can reach God. That way is through Christ Jesus, who as a man

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[The Learner]

No, Jesus didn't say it, human beings are, those who don't believe what the scriptures say. 1 Peter 3:18: 1 Corinthians 15:44, 45 prove Jesus was resurrected with a spirit body. When Jesus walked the earth, he had a fleshly body. But when he was resurrected, he “became a life-giving spirit” and returned to heaven. Likewise, anointed Christians would be resurrected to spirit life. Paul explained: “Just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we will bear also the image of the heavenly one.” Human beings are not immortal incorruptible beings, but when those who are Jesus disciples are resurrected, those who will be kings, judges, and priests with Jesus in that Heavenly Messianic Kingdom will be resurrected immortal incorruptible beings. They, like Jesus, won't be human beings anymore.

For 40 days after his resurrection Jesus appeared to his disciples on different occasions in various fleshly bodies, just as angels had appeared to men of ancient times. Like those angels, he had the power to construct and to disintegrate those fleshly bodies at will, for the purpose of proving visibly that he had been resurrected. (Matthew 28:8-10, 16-20; Luke 24:13-32, 36-43; John 20:14-29; Genesis 18:1, 2; 19:1; Joshua 5:13-15; Judges 6:11, 12; 13:3, 13)

Acts 10:40, 41 say, "God raised this One [Jesus Christ] up on the third day and granted him to become manifest, not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God.” tell me Jack, why did not others see him too? It's because he was a spirit creature and when, as angels had done in the past, he materialized fleshly bodies to make himself visible, he did so only in the presence of his disciples. Jesus said to his apostles just before he sacrificed his life that the world will see him no more. (John 14:19) That's exactly how it was too. No unbeliever saw Jesus after his resurrection. Jesus only appeared to his apostles and disciples.

Luke 24:36-40

King James Version

​

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

Luke 24:36-40

Easy-to-Read Version

​

Jesus Appears to His Followers​

36 While the two men were saying these things to the other followers, Jesus himself came and stood among them. He said to them, “Peace be with you.”
37 This surprised the followers. They were afraid. They thought they were seeing a ghost. 38 But Jesus said, “Why are you troubled? Why do you doubt what you see? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It’s really me. Touch me. You can see that I have a living body; a ghost does not have a body like this.”
40 After Jesus told them this, he showed them his hands and his feet.​
1 John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

1 John 1:1

Easy-to-Read Version

​

1 We want to tell you about the Word[a] that gives life—the one who existed before the world began. This is the one we have heard and have seen with our own eyes. We saw what he did, and our hands touched him.

 

[The Learner]

You have evaded several simple questions I have asked you more than once. Very, very suspicious indeed!

Please list the questions by number, thanks daniel

 

[The Learner]

The kingdom hall doesn't command me just like you don't command me. The only time you think a person is truly thinking on his own is when that person is blindly following you or blindly agreeing with you.

Our wives are the real commanders, just ask them. lol

 

[The Learner]

If Hell is permanent for Christians, then 1 Timothy 4:10 is false.

1 Timothy 4:10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

Hi Patrick, are you speaking of the grave or eternal punishment? And, I do not see a contradiction.
What pair of glasses(world view) are you coming from? friend.

 

[The Learner]

Telling people that there is no literal fires of gehenna (Hellfire) is showing love, because it is defending the Bible. It's showing love first for the only true God first and foremost, by speaking the truth about him and teaching people the truth that human beings are Souls, not that they have Souls. So human beings don't have a Soul that separates at death and literally goes to some literal place. The fires of gehenna (Hellfire) in the scriptures always has represented an eternal condition, not a literal place. So like the lake of fire which is the second death, those that are symbolically thrown into the fires of gehenna (Hellfire) are never awakened from their sleep of death, so they are forever nonexistent as living persons.
Those that don't believe you stop existing as a living person because they believe and teach human beings have immortal Souls that separates at death and so continues living in another form, in another plain of existence are calling the true God a liar, because they believe a person continues to exist as a living person, even though God said a person does die. These are the ones who are not showing love for the true God, because they're calling the true God a liar and saying the serpent in the garden of Eden was telling the truth that a person doesn't die.
It was those of false religion who believed human beings have immortal Souls and that at death this immortal Soul separated from the human body and went either to a place of eternal punishment or to a place of eternal paradise. Those that were Christians in name only borrowed from false religion and combined their false ideas to Gods truth. However the true God has never approved of taking what belongs to demons and combining what demons teach with his truth. The true God YHWH and his truth have nothing in common with demons. So you can't take what belongs to demons and combine it with the true God and his truth.

Gehenna, also called Gehinnom, abode of the damned in the afterlife in Jewish and Christian eschatology (the doctrine of last things). Named in the New Testament in Greek form (from the Hebrew Ge Hinnom, meaning “valley of Hinnom”), Gehenna originally was a valley west and south of Jerusalem where children were burned as sacrifices to the Ammonite god Moloch. This practice was carried out by the Israelites during the reigns of King Solomon in the 10th century BC and King Manasseh in the 7th century BC and continued until the Babylonian Exile in the 6th century BC. Gehenna later was made a garbage centre to discourage a reintroduction of such sacrifices.

The imagery of the burning of humans supplied the concept of “hellfire” to Jewish and Christian eschatology. Mentioned several times in the New Testament (e.g., Matthew, Mark, Luke, and James) as a place in which fire will destroy the wicked, it also is noted in the Talmud, a compendium of Jewish law, lore, and commentary, as a place of purification, after which one is released from further torture.

Sacred | Definition, History, Characteristics, & Facts

sacred, the power, being, or realm understood by religious persons to be at the core of existence and to have a transformative effect on their lives and destinies. Other terms, such as holy, divine, transcendent, ultimate being (or ultimate reality), mystery, and perfection (or purity) have...

www.britannica.com

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Soṭah 22a); according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day. Yet opinions on this point vary. According to some sources, it was created on the second day; according to others, even before the world, only its fire being created on the second day (Gen. R. iv., end; Pes. 54a). The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna). Opinions also vary as to the situation, extent, and nature of hell. The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a). The gate lies between two palm-trees in the valley of Hinnom, from which smoke is continually rising (ib.). The mouth is narrow, impeding the smoke, but below Gehenna extends indefinitely (Men. 99b). According to one opinion, it is above the firmament, and according to another, behind the dark mountains (Ta'an. 32b). An Arabian pointed out to a scholar the spot in the wilderness where the earth swallowed the sons of Korah (Num. xvi. 31-32), who descended into Gehenna (Sanh. 110b). It is situated deep down in the earth, and is immeasurably large. "The earth is one-sixtieth of the garden, the garden one-sixtieth of Eden [paradise], Eden one-sixtieth of Gehenna; hence the whole world is like a lid for Gehenna. Some say that Gehenna can not be measured" (Pes. 94a). It is divided into seven compartments (Soṭah 10b); a similar view was held by the Babylonians (Jeremias, "Hölle und Paradies bei den Babyloniern," pp. 16 et seq., Leipsic, 1901; Guthe, "Kurzes Bibel-wörterb." p. 272, Tübingen and Leipsic, 1903).

Because of the extent of Gehenna the sun, on setting in the evening, passes by it, and receives from it its own fire (evening glow; B. B. 84a). A fiery stream ("dinur") falls upon the head of the sinner in Gehenna (Ḥag. 13b). This is "the fire of the West, which every setting sun receives. I came to a fiery river, whose fire flows like water, and which empties into a large sea in the West" (Enoch, xvii. 4-6). Hell here is described exactly as in the Talmud. The Persians believed that glowing molten metal flowed under the feet of sinners (Schwally, "Das Leben nach dem Tode," p. 145, Giessen, 1892). The waters of the warm springs of Tiberias are heated while flowing past Gehenna (Shab. 39a). The fire of Gehenna never goes out (Tosef., Ber. 6, 7; Mark ix. 43 et seq.; Matt. xviii. 8, xxv. 41; comp. Schwally, l.c. p. 176); there is always plenty of wood there (Men. 100a). This fire is sixty times as hot as any earthly fire (Ber. 57b). There is a smell of sulfur in Gehenna (Enoch, lxvii. 6). This agrees with the Greek idea of hell (Lucian, Αληθεῖς Ιστορίαι, i. 29, in Dietrich, "Abraxas," p. 36). The sulfurous smell of the Tiberian medicinal springs was ascribed to their connection with Gehenna. In Isa. lxvi. 16, 24 it is said that God judges by means of fire. Gehenna is dark in spite of the immense masses of fire; it is like night (Yeb. 109b; comp. Job x. 22). The same idea also occurs in Enoch, x. 4, lxxxii. 2; Matt. viii. 12, xxii. 13, xxv. 30 (comp. Schwally, l.c. p. 176).

It is assumed that there is an angel-prince in charge of Gehenna. He says to God: "Put everything into my sea; nourish me with the seed of Seth; I am hungry." But God refuses his request, telling him to take the heathen peoples (Shab. 104). God says to the angel-prince: "I punish the slanderers from above, and I also punish them from below with glowing coals" ('Ar. 15b). The souls of the sons of Korah were burned, and the angel-prince gnashed his teeth at them on account of their flattery of Korah (Sanh. 52a). Gehenna cries: "Give me the heretics and the sinful [Roman] power" ('Ab. Zarah 17a).

Judgment.
It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B. M. 83b). To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise.

GEHENNA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

jewishencyclopedia.com

 

[The Learner]

Anyone with any common sense or more importantly who truly believes in a God of Love knows that Jesus was using hyperbole here. He was obviously not encouraging self-mutilation or implying that a person was somehow subservient to the will of his limbs or eyes. He meant that a person should deaden a body member, or treat it as if it were severed from the body, rather than use it to commit a sin. (Colossians 3:5.) A person should allow nothing to hinder him from gaining life.
So just as Jesus was not literally telling people to literally cut off their hand or foot or to literally pluck out his/her eye Jesus was not talking about literal fire.

Friend, what I find funny, interesting is that your arguments were first used by Unitarians. slap head.

 

[The Learner]

Wow I'm away for a few months and Jack is still up to his old tricks...one sentence meaningless statements and Barney why do you persevere? Liked your reply though...you see the Spirit of the Word and not the Letter like Jack!

What is it like being towards the underside of the land? curious

 

[The Learner]

You're TWISTING what Jesus said. He was clearly telling us how TERRIBLE it will be for those who burn in Hell "forever and ever". Whoever leads people to that terrible place will be there with them! How long ago did Kingdom Hall convince you that there is no "everlasting fire"? Forty years? Again, Luke 16 in YOUR NWT says you're wrong. Every English translation I know of says you're wrong. Hyperbole and symbolic are two of Kingdom Hall's favorite words when they don't like what God said!

NWT Luke 16 “Also, the rich man died and was buried. 23 And in the Grave he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and he saw Abraham from afar and Lazʹa·rus by his side. 24 So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazʹa·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you had your fill of good things in your lifetime, but Lazʹa·rus for his part received bad things. Now, however, he is being comforted here, but you are in anguish. 26 And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that those who want to go over from here to you cannot,

Hyperbole and symbolic still tells us the truth about spiritual reality.

 

[The Learner]

We need to outline our world views.

Me: Historical Christian, not Christadom
1`. Bible is word of G_d.
2. God is three persons as one being.
3. Hell is the grave(there may be texts that say otherwise)
4. Jesus is both fully God and fully Man.
5. Jesus died physically James 2:26 did not go out of existence
6,. Between death and ressurrection he preached to the dead aka spirits in prision
7. He rose in a glorified body that has both physical and Spiritual aspects.
8. After his resurrection people touched him, he ate fish, 500 saw him.
9. He was able to pass through matter because he is on a higher demonsion.
Think about the book, Flatland
10. He spent time on earth after his resurrection.
11. Ascended into Heaven
12. He never returned invisibly, everyone will see him when he returns.
13. I use biblical culture, languages, my Jewish background, historical sources, customs, archaeolgy to study Scriptures.
14. I am indwelt with the Holy Spirit who speaks to me.
15. I often ask The Holy Spirit and Jesus to pray with me. Romans 8
16. Several times a day, I ask the Holy Spirit to fill me with his power.
17. When I study a sect, I use their primary sources and have had Jw's steal some of their materials from me because their reprints of those materials are edited and rewritten to take out what changes in doctrines they no longer hold.
18. Historic Christians have not changed their doctrines. If you wish I can show you Jesus is God, Holy Spirit is a person of the G-dhead, etc., from the Church Fathers, Councils(first 8 are athoritive to Prostestants.

Aside: I often posted Bowman's outline from the Bible of the Trintiy and it has been ignored. https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

Aside 2: The Kingdom Interlinear at II Thess 2:1-2, both verses are the same grammar in Greek and use the same word for Lord. NWT translates day of the Lord as Jehovah. If one is to translate one place as Jehovah, then one must translate both places as Jehovah. There is no way around this, because of the context, grammar and word used.

Brothers and sisters, we have something to say about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We want to talk to you about that time when we will meet together with him. 2 Don’t let yourselves be easily upset or worried if you hear that the day of the Lord has already come. Someone might say that this idea came from us—in something the Spirit told us, or in something we said, or in a letter we wrote.

Joel 2:31
The sun will be changed into darkness, and the moon will be as red as blood. Then the great and fearful day of the Lord will come!

Amos 5:18
Some of you want to see the Lord’s special day of judgment. Why do you want to see that day of the Lord? His special day will bring darkness, not light.

Obadiah 1:15
The Day of the Lord is coming soon to all the nations. And the evil you did to others will happen to you. The same bad things will fall down on your own head.

Acts 2:20
The sun will be changed into darkness, and the moon will be as red as blood. Then the great and glorious day of the Lord will come.

2 Thessalonians 2:2a
Don’t let yourselves be easily upset or worried if you hear that the day of the Lord has already come.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Don’t be fooled by anything they might say. That day of the Lord will not come until the turning away from God happens. And that day will not come until the Man of Evil appears, the one who belongs to hell.

Revelation 1:4-11
New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia:

Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To him who loves us and freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and made us to be a kingdom, priests serving his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

7 Look! He is coming with the clouds;
every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and on his account all the tribes of the earth will wail.

So it is to be. Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.

A Vision of Christ
9 I, John, your brother who share with you in Jesus the persecution and the kingdom and the patient endurance, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10 I was in the spirit on the Lord’s day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet 11 saying, “Write in a book what you see and send it to the seven churches, to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamum, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

Note: Jesus is the Almighty God, from the above context it is about Jesus. And, the day of the Lord is about Jesus too.

Isaiah 13:6
Wail, for the day of the Lord is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty!

Isaiah 13:9
See, the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the earth a desolation, and to destroy its sinners from it.

Ezekiel 30:3
For a day is near, the day of the Lord is near; it will be a day of clouds, a time of doom for the nations.

1 Thessalonians 5:2
For you yourselves know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

 

[Jack]

Please list the questions by number, thanks daniel

1 Has Kingdom Hall doctrine ever been wrong?
2 How long have you been "studying" at Kingdom Hall?
3 Are JW's gods?

For starters ...

 

[Jack]

Hyperbole and symbolic still tells us the truth about spiritual reality.

But Kingdom Hall uses those terms to attack our Bible, to change the meaning of what God said.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Nope,

Your Content
1 Peter 3
Easy-to-Read Version
Wives and Husbands
3 In the same way, you wives should be willing to serve your husbands. Then, even those who have refused to accept God’s teaching will be persuaded to believe because of the way you live. You will not need to say anything. 2 Your husbands will see the pure lives that you live with respect for God. 3 It is not fancy hair, gold jewelry, or fine clothes that should make you beautiful. 4 No, your beauty should come from inside you—the beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit. That beauty will never disappear. It is worth very much to God.

5 It was the same with the holy women who lived long ago and followed God. They made themselves beautiful in that same way. They were willing to serve their husbands. 6 I am talking about women like Sarah. She obeyed Abraham, her husband, and called him her master. And you women are true children of Sarah if you always do what is right and are not afraid.

7 In the same way, you husbands should live with your wives in an understanding way, since they are weaker than you. You should show them respect, because God gives them the same blessing he gives you—the grace of true life. Do this so that nothing will stop your prayers from being heard.

Suffering for Doing Right
8 So all of you should live together in peace. Try to understand each other. Love each other like brothers and sisters. Be kind and humble. 9 Don’t do wrong to anyone to pay them back for doing wrong to you. Or don’t insult anyone to pay them back for insulting you. But ask God to bless them. Do this because you yourselves were chosen to receive a blessing. 10 The Scriptures say,

“If you want to enjoy true life
and have only good days,
then avoid saying anything hurtful,
and never let a lie come out of your mouth.
11 Stop doing what is wrong, and do good.
Look for peace, and do all you can to help people live peacefully.
12 The Lord watches over those who do what is right,
and he listens to their prayers.
But he is against those who do evil.”

13 If you are always trying to do good, no one can really harm you. 14 But you may suffer for doing right. If that happens, you have God’s blessing. “Don’t be afraid of the people who make you suffer; don’t be worried.”(Quote from Isa. 8:12.) 15 But keep the Lord Christ holy in your hearts. Always be ready to answer everyone who asks you to explain about the hope you have. 16 But answer them in a gentle way with respect. Keep your conscience clear. Then people will see the good way you live as followers of Christ, and those who say bad things about you will be ashamed of what they said.

17 It is better to suffer for doing good than for doing wrong. Yes, it is better if that is what God wants.

18 Christ himself suffered when he died for you,
and with that one death he paid for your sins.
He was not guilty,
but he died for people who are guilty.
He did this to bring all of you to God.
In his physical form he was killed,
but he was made alive by the Spirit.[Or “in the spirit.” Also in verse 19.

Note: The spirits in prision were in the grave.

19 And by the Spirit he went and preached to the spirits in prison. 20 Those were the spirits who refused to obey God long ago in the time of Noah. God was waiting patiently for people while Noah was building the big boat. And only a few—eight in all—were saved in the boat through the floodwater.

Nope, nowhere in 1 Peter 3:19 does it say these spirits are souls and neither does it say that Jesus preached to these spirits in Hades (the grave). Since the disobedience of these spirits is linked with the time of Noah, they're the angelic sons of God who left their original dwelling place in the heavens and took up living with women. (Genesis 6:1-4) At 2 Peter 2:4, 5 Peter refers to them as “angels that sinned.” They are spoken of as “spirits in prison” because their punishment included a form of restraint, being forever debarred from their original place among the faithful angels. The words of Jude confirm that only a message of condemnatory judgment could be directed to these fallen angels: “The angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place [God] has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.” (Jude 6)

God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tartarus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.” (2 Peter 2:4)

As these descriptions relate to spirit creatures, it is evident that the “pits of dense darkness” and “eternal bonds” are not literal. These expressions simply convey to us a picture of restraint, a condition of debasement separated from all divine enlightenment.

There is no Scriptural basis for concluding that these disobedient angels are in a place like the mythological Tartarus of Homer’s Iliad, that is, in the lowest prison where Cronus and the other Titan spirits were said to be confined. The apostle Peter did not believe in any such mythological gods. So there is no reason to conclude that his use of the Greek expression ‘throwing into Tartarus’ even hinted at the existence of the mythological place referred to by Homer some nine centuries earlier. In fact, in Greek the expression ‘throwing into Tartarus’ is only one word, a verb, tartaroo. It is also used to mean debasing to the lowest degree.

At 1 Peter 3:19, 20 the debased spirit creatures are referred to as “spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed.” So the Bible makes it plain that after the Flood the “angels that sinned” came under a form of restraint. There is no Biblical indication that they were able to materialize and take up visible activity on earth after the Flood. So it logically follows that the restraint under which they came made it impossible for them to take on flesh again.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Friend, what I find funny, interesting is that your arguments were first used by Unitarians. slap head.

So what, Just because some people in the past said something I agree with doesn't necessarily make it wrong because you or some other imperfect human beings say what they said isn't true. People should not blindly follow anyone, and like I said I know for a fact Jesus wasn't encouraging self-multilation here at Matthew 18:8, 9.
The application to be made at Matthew 18:8, 9 is stated in Colossians 3:5-7: “Deaden, therefore, your body members that are upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness, sexual appetite, hurtful desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of those things the wrath of God is coming. In those very things you, too, once walked when you used to live in them.” So, the proper course is, not to mutilate oneself, but to deaden one’s body members toward sin.(1 Corinthians 9:27)
So just as you don't take the cutting off the foot or hand literally or pluck out the eye literally, you don't take the fires of gehenna as being literal.

 

[Jack]

So what, Just because some people in the past said something I agree with doesn't necessarily make it wrong because you or some other imperfect human beings say what they said isn't true. People should not blindly follow anyone, and like I said I know for a fact Jesus wasn't encouraging self-multilation here at Matthew 18:8, 9.
The application to be made at Matthew 18:8, 9 is stated in Colossians 3:5-7: “Deaden, therefore, your body members that are upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness, sexual appetite, hurtful desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of those things the wrath of God is coming. In those very things you, too, once walked when you used to live in them.” So, the proper course is, not to mutilate oneself, but to deaden one’s body members toward sin.(1 Corinthians 9:27)
So just as you don't take the cutting off the foot or hand literally or pluck out the eye literally, you don't take the fires of gehenna as being literal.

I would bet that you / KH takes NT salvation literally. Maybe not. Whatever Kingdom Hall doesn't like in the Bible is not literal. Do you know that Luke 16 is even in the NWT? They both died but were very much alive. They did not "cease to exist" as Kingdom Hall twists the Scripture! I'm sure the rich man wishes he wasn't still alive! Perhaps like those whom you have convinced that there is no "everlasting fire" as Jesus warned. How many have you convinced that there is no "everlasting fire"? There will be BLOODY hands on Judgment Day!

NWT Luke 16 “Also, the rich man died and was buried. 23 And in the Grave he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and he saw Abraham from afar and Lazʹa·rus by his side. 24 So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazʹa·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you had your fill of good things in your lifetime, but Lazʹa·rus for his part received bad things. Now, however, he is being comforted here, but you are in anguish. 26 And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that those who want to go over from here to you cannot,

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I would bet that you / KH takes NT salvation literally. Maybe not. Whatever Kingdom Hall doesn't like in the Bible is not literal. Do you know that Luke 16 is even in the NWT? They both died but were very much alive. They did not "cease to exist" as Kingdom Hall twists the Scripture! I'm sure the rich man wishes he wasn't still alive! Perhaps like those whom you have convinced that there is no "everlasting fire" as Jesus warned. How many have you convinced that there is no "everlasting fire"? There will be BLOODY hands on Judgment Day!

NWT Luke 16 “Also, the rich man died and was buried. 23 And in the Grave he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and he saw Abraham from afar and Lazʹa·rus by his side. 24 So he called and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazʹa·rus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this blazing fire.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you had your fill of good things in your lifetime, but Lazʹa·rus for his part received bad things. Now, however, he is being comforted here, but you are in anguish. 26 And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that those who want to go over from here to you cannot,

Anyone who says that Jesus didn't die for mankind are believing and stating a lie. Jesus did die for mankind. So if anyone says Jesus didn't stop existing as a living person then you're admittng as a person Jesus didn't stop living as a person so you're denying he died. It's those who deny Jesus died for mankind who will not get everlasting life. People have to believe that the True God sent his only begotten Son to the world of mankind, that the only begotten Son died or sacrificed his life for mankind and three days later God resurrected his only begotten son from the dead. Exercising fait in all this is how a person gets everlasting life.

 

[Jack]

Anyone who says that Jesus didn't die for mankind are believing and stating a lie. Jesus did die for mankind. So if anyone says Jesus didn't stop existing as a living person then you're admittng as a person Jesus didn't stop living as a person so you're denying he died. It's those who deny Jesus died for mankind who will not get everlasting life. People have to believe that the True God sent his only begotten Son to the world of mankind, that the only begotten Son died or sacrificed his life for mankind and three days later God resurrected his only begotten son from the dead. Exercising fait in all this is how a person gets everlasting life.

So there was no Savior for 3 days? lol
Are you saying God created Jesus twice? This is beyond Satanic!

 

[The Learner]

1 Has Kingdom Hall doctrine ever been wrong?
2 How long have you been "studying" at Kingdom Hall?
3 Are JW's gods?

For starters ...

On question 1, many times, they are like a flashing light.

Googled watchtower flashing light quotes

The Ever-Changing Beliefs of The Watchtower - TowerWatch Ministries

Over the years Jehovah's Witnesses have changed their beliefs many times, claiming the light was getting brighter, to many it seemed to be a flashing light. Here are a few examples of the light getting brighter or continuously flashing, you be the judge. The Men of Sodom 1879 The men of Sodom...

towerwatch.com

The Watchtower's Flickering Light

As John Henry Newman explained in his Essay on the D...

www.catholic.com

OBEY THE WATCHTOWER ORGANIZATION OR DIE!

page 103:. page 64:. page 106:.

www.jehovahs-witness.com

https://jashow.org/articles/prophecies-of-the-watchtower-society-of-jehovahs-witnesses/

"Flashes of Light—Great and Small", The Watchtower, May 15, 1995, p. 20.