Nothing much left to say
- Thread starter I.O.U
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We are taught that Heaven celebrates, when anyone comes to the faith.
We do not seek, to pigeonhole.
You are struggling to keep your idea of faith, alive - Jesus can help you with that.
"I'll believe it, when I see it" isn't just a cop out, its a really hard way to live. Harder than anything I've faced, now that I "believe".
You've believed that aspects of faith are wanting, but they weren't a response to men, but to God. I don't say this because I hate you, but because I am hurting for you, the same way you are.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
What many are missing here and overlooking, is that simple belief doesn't remain, mere belief. Belief turns into relationship. It's relationship that God seeks with those He created. He established the way, all you have to do is walk in it. The rewards, including eternal life, are worth it.
What do you mean your hurting for me? Like spiritually? Why? What's gonna happen? Nothing's gonna happen. Don't waste whatever energy you have left on getting your emotions tangled up. There's other people who really need the spare thoughts you have.
No wonder human beings are so screwed up when instead of forming relationships with the people around them, they're getting love drunk with their own personal belief systems.
Lapidem
Active Member
Hi, thanks for your continued efforts #QuantumBit.
I concur that Adam was created on the 3rd day in this story (and Eve shortly afterward) and that the wider population of mankind was created on the 6th day.
I have significant difficulty accepting your premise about the death of Adam and Eve since there is no mention of it at all in this fairly detailed chronological account of Genesis.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.
Why is there no mention whatsoever of anyone dying in the above verses? Eve could not have handed the fruit to Adam if she were dead. Also it is beyond a stretch to try and equate "eyes being opened" with being dead imho. Their deaths would be such a significant event in this story as to warrant mention in the above verses. You would expect it to say :
she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat and immediately thereafter they both fell to the ground dead. And God seeing that they had disobeyed him and seeing them dead immediately created a new man and woman.
Now if god had indeed created a new Adam and Eve would they not then have started from scratch again? Would they not be new creations thus not having the knowledge, not even knowing about the tree? Thus they would not know they were naked.
Another very significant point is that if god had re-created Adam and Eve then those creations would have been perfect for god in your doctrine is perfect. Therefore the new Adam could not have sin, could not have been tainted by the fall of the previous Adam. So how then is all of mankind that was subsequently created affected by this taint? It doesn't hang together. At least not to my current understanding. And regardless, god made the wider population of mankind (men and women) on day 6. Surely being separate creations of god they must have been perfect beings. Hence the whole schtick of sin and genetic corruption seems questionable.
So in summary
1. Why does Genesis not mention the immediate death of Adam and Eve after they ate from the tree if you are claiming that is what happened?
2. Why were any subsequent creations of Adam or Eve and the rest of mankind not perfect if god created them separately?
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Lapidem
Active Member
Do you understand what that would really mean? Do you realise that eternal life could be a living hell if that eternal life is not the life you would want or WILL?
For example suppose I had the power to grant you eternal life right here, right now, but that eternity would be spent as my personal gardener, mowing my lawn for evermore, pruning my shrubs, watering my plants?
Do you think that would qualify as your "rewards"?
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Maybe the Heart would be a better place to start looking.
The brain is for reasoning but the heart is where faith is found.
When you try to reason in your heart, you begin to lose faith.
But when you have faith in your heart, your mind will try to reason you against it or for it.
Do you follow your heart or your mind?
God doesn't circumcise the mind he circumcises the heart.
Deu 30:6
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
But sometimes the mind tries to rule the heart:
Luk 5:22
But when Jesus perceived their thoughts, he answering said unto them, What reason ye in your hearts?
God plants the seed of faith in your heart, the devil tries to take it away by planting his own seeds in your mind.
Your just afraid to let your heart feel anything, so you trust your mind to lead you.
There is a difference between a broken heart and a broken mind.
Some people just too macho to allow themselves to feel anything. They hide in their brain.
Hugs
Heart knowledge? Every experience we have originates from the brain. You're basically recommending it's better not using it to feel Jesus. Then there's those other Christian's who'll say "God gave you a brain to use" May this be my last day on earth.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Another assumption. You are assuming that God doesn't have your best interests at heart. Scripture says however that God is love, and He proved that on Calvary.
KJV Romans 8:31-32
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
We’ve both read the NT; you, “hundreds of times.”
We both know what scripture says you are. The difference is that I believe it and you - by the confession of your own mouth - don’t.
I didn't, and I did factor that in when I was writing out that post. I was saying that a relationship with a internalized belief pretty much screws you up. You know what it's like to hang out with someone who is just focused on one thing. Day in day out one thing, one thing, one thing, you got to hear that one thing, over and over until you can't breathe anymore.
Next time the police pull me over and ask me "Who are you?" I will say: Richard Kimble.
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