Receiving The Revelation 16:15 Scripture

[veteran]

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
(KJV)

Our Lord Jesus said that 15th verse within the 6th Vial events.


Per both Apostles Paul and Peter, our Lord Jesus' second coming and our gathering to Him on "the day of the Lord" are linked with that "as a thief" time marker (1 Thess.5; 2 Pet.3:10).

I'm well aware of how the pre-trib rapture school believes Christ's Church has already been 'raptured' out before any of the 7 Vials start. Many among the post-trib school believe that also.

The fact that our Lord Jesus placed that "as a thief" time marker there within the 6th Vial events, in prep for the final 7th Vial, reveals what to us?

What does it reveal to you?

 

[JLB]

The fact that our Lord Jesus placed that "as a thief" time marker there within the 6th Vial events, in prep for the final 7th Vial, reveals what to us?

He has not come back yet

Therefore the ressurection has not taken place.

 

[veteran]

The fact that our Lord Jesus placed that "as a thief" time marker there within the 6th Vial events, in prep for the final 7th Vial, reveals what to us?

He has not come back yet

Therefore the ressurection has not taken place.

I assume you mean, at that very point on the 6th Vial, Christ has not come back yet, and the resurrection has not happened yet at that point?

 

[JLB]

Yes

 

[veteran]

Yes

What do you make of those who refuse to receive that Scripture about that point? Do you feel they have trouble letting go of what they've been taught about it from various Churches today? If so, why?

 

[7angels]

if you read revelations you will see that after rev 3 there is no mention of the church at all until rev 19. now i am not a person who has done any great research into rev but to me rev 16:15 is referring to those that are going through the Great trib. this is not the church that is being referred too here but people that were saved during the great trib. Jesus is telling them to stay alert for when he comes for them.

i am all for you believing in a post trib rapture but as for me i do not plan on being here for it.

 

[JLB]

if you read revelations you will see that after rev 3 there is no mention of the church at all until rev 19. now i am not a person who has done any great research into rev but to me rev 16:15 is referring to those that are going through the Great trib. this is not the church that is being referred too here but people that were saved during the great trib. Jesus is telling them to stay alert for when he comes for them.

i am all for you believing in a post trib rapture but as for me i do not plan on being here for it.

Here in Revelation 6 we see those of the church on earth that have yet to be martyred.

9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.


Im sure we all have plans that didn't work out as we would have liked.

 

[7angels]

like i said i am no expert on this subject but i believe these people are those that were martyred during the trib. prophesy is very hard to try and understand in and of itself and unless the Holy Spirit speaks revelation to us it will remain a mystery. i am not saying whether you are right or wrong but i am saying that this issue has nothing to do with whether or not we will go to heaven or not. i would like to why the rapture has become such an important issue here in this forum. does anyone know why? is someone studying on this issue and trying to get questions answered or trying to explain their beliefs? it seems there is quite a bit of discussion about it going on in different ways recently. any thoughts on the matter?

 

[Saint]

Hummmm...is it possible that the real gathering of the church occurs in Rev 14?

Rev 14:14-15 ESV Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. (15) And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, "Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe."

Don't we see the reaping of both the good and bad in this section?

Rev 14:17-18 ESV Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. (18) And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, "Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe."

Just a thought

In Yeshua Messiah,

Bob

 

[veteran]

Hummmm...is it possible that the real gathering of the church occurs in Rev 14?

Rev 14:14-15 ESV Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. (15) And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, "Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe."

Don't we see the reaping of both the good and bad in this section?

Rev 14:17-18 ESV Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. (18) And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, "Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe."

One of the ways the Old Testament Books of the prophets are written is at times with a varied timetable for events. The timeline jumps back and forth between present, past, and future tense, sometimes within the short space of a couple of verses. Our Lord's Book of Revelation is no different. That's why it's so important to concentrate on the 'events' first, and then by that it determines the order.

In Rev.14, the first event is Christ standing upon Mount Zion with 144,000 of His saints, their singing a new song before the throne. Then at Rev.14:7 we're shown events on earth, and Babylon having fallen with time for her judgment, and a warning to anyone who worships the beast, take its mark, etc. Then we're shown an angel thrusting in the sickle to cause the events of God's wrath upon earth, signaling the day of The Lord. Yet the descriptions of the Babylon harlot and end with Armageddon and Christ's coming on a white horse isn't given until later in Rev.16 through 19.

Likewise in Rev.6, we're given 6 Seals with the 6th one including events of 'the day of the Lord' when our Lord Jesus returns. Even with the first described Seal in Rev.6 about one coming on a white horse, that's out of the order of how the events actually occur, regardless of whether one believes that one is the "man of sin", or our Lord Jesus.

Also with the 7 Trumpets, their start begins at the end of Rev.8 and ends in Rev.11, yet Rev.10 includes a time when the 7th trumpet is over.

Why did our Lord Jesus give His Apostle John those visions in that kind of order? It's simple. He expects us to know the difference when He is expanding on an event, giving us more info about it, vs. giving their order of coming to pass.

if you read revelations you will see that after rev 3 there is no mention of the church at all until rev 19. now i am not a person who has done any great research into rev but to me rev 16:15 is referring to those that are going through the Great trib. this is not the church that is being referred too here but people that were saved during the great trib. Jesus is telling them to stay alert for when he comes for them.

i am all for you believing in a post trib rapture but as for me i do not plan on being here for it.

Problem with that is, if true, it would mean Apostles Paul and Peter, and our Lord Jesus, were all wrong in giving the "as a thief" as a time marker for His coming on "the day of the Lord".

In 2 Thess.2:1-2, Apostle Paul specifically links the time of Christ's coming and our gathering with "the day of Christ" marker. In the Greek, that phrase is actually "the day of the Lord".

In 1 Thess.5, Paul also links our Lord Jesus' coming "as a thief" with the "day of the Lord" timing, as Peter also does in 2 Peter 3:10.


In Rev.3:3, our Lord Jesus told the Church of Sardis that if they did not watch, He would come upon them "as a thief", and they would not know what hour He would come because of it.

In Rev.16:15, our Lord Jesus gave the very same Message about His coming "as a thief", and His servants to watch and keep their garments, lest they appear naked (spiritually naked) and in shame. That's the very same... Message to His Church in the previous examples. It's quite enough Scripture evidence from our Lord Jesus to show that His coming to gather His Church has not happened at that 6th Vial point of time.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The fact that our Lord Jesus placed that "as a thief" time marker there within the 6th Vial events, in prep for the final 7th Vial, reveals what to us?
What does it reveal to you?

It reveals to me that all (or at least the first 6) of the vials are poured out at once, and that you don't want to be on the earth when they are. The rapture (1st resurrection) and vials of wrath happen on the same day. Blessed are those who are watching, and will not be left behind when the trumpet sounds.

 

[veteran]

It reveals to me that all (or at least the first 6) of the vials are poured out at once, and that you don't want to be on the earth when they are. The rapture (1st resurrection) and vials of wrath happen on the same day. Blessed are those who are watching, and will not be left behind when the trumpet sounds.

But you're still not addressing the specific subject of the Rev.16:15 verse by saying that, are you?

Is that "as a thief" phrase about the time of our Lord's Jesus' second coming or not?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But you're still not addressing the specific subject of the Rev.16:15 verse by saying that, are you?
Is that "as a thief" phrase about the time of our Lord's Jesus' second coming or not?

Oh. So sorry. Yes. As a thief refers to the fact that at his second coming the world will not know they have lost everything until it has already happened.

 

[veteran]

Oh. So sorry. Yes. As a thief refers to the fact that at his second coming the world will not know they have lost everything until it has already happened.

But they will know, as Rev.18 even shows how they will cry at the fall of their Babylon world system.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But they will know, as Rev.18 even shows how they will cry at the fall of their Babylon world system.

But by that time the resurrection has already happened (as I see it).

 

[veteran]

But by that time the resurrection has already happened (as I see it).

As per the OT prophets and our Lord Jesus in Revelation, all... will know it at the moment of Christ's coming, for all nations and peoples will literally SEE... His coming (Rev.1:7).

The time for that is on "the day of the Lord" with His coming "as a thief in the night" per Apostles Paul and Peter. That is also the day of God's vengeance upon the earth, and the time of the "sudden destruction" Paul taught.

 

[teleiosis]

Rev 16:15 is for the Remnant shepherded through the second half of the one 'seven.'

 

[veteran]

Rev 16:15 is for the Remnant shepherded through the second half of the one 'seven.'

Rev.16:15 is for all of Christ's 'faithful' Church alive on earth unto the "day of the Lord", which is when Jesus returns to gather His 'faithful' Church on earth that waits for Him.

But some of His Church is not going to 'wait' for Him like He commanded, and will have become spiritual harlots, fleeing to the false one thinking he's Jesus. Because the apostates and deceived will think the coming false messiah is Jesus, they won't be expecting our Lord Jesus Christ's true return to defeat that Wicked, and thus Christ's coming will be "as a thief in the night" to the apostates.

This is why... we're shown in the Book of Daniel about what that "little horn", "vial person" does, using 'peace'... and causing craft to prosper in his hand. The false messiah is coming to heal the world's woes in order to fool the world into thinking he's God. Like our Lord Jesus forewarned in Matt.24:6, when you hear of wars and rumours of wars, don't be troubled for those must come to pass, BUT THE END IS NOT YET.

The opposite of those wars IS... a time of WORLD PEACE. And THAT's when the pseudo Christ, the another Jesus, the Antichrist, that Wicked, the man of sin, the son of perdition, Apollyon, Abaddon, the angel of the bottomless pit, the little horn, the vial person, the dragon, that old serpent, the Devil, Satan, is going to appear in the role of God on earth.

What will you do brethren, will you 'wait' on Christ Jesus' coming to defeat that false one, or will you bow to that god of this world who will come bringing world peace and prosperity of craft by his hand, playing God?

 

[teleiosis]

No, saying the Remnant would be some of the Church is without any evidence in the text whatsoever. However, in Isaiah, we find that God will lead the Remnant upon paths they do not know. This is so that they can survive the various desolations of God's Wrath and not be caught by the anti-Christ.

Rev 16:15 is NOT the Day of the Lord. In fact, in the parallel account of just the one 'seven' in chapters 13-16 - the Day of the Lord happened with the gathering of the wheat in 14:14-16. Jesus comes on the clouds of Heaven on the Day of the Lord as shown by His testimony in the Olivet Discourse. In that parallel view of the Rapture, the Day of the Lord is evidenced by its signature thumbprint of God: the sun/moon/star event in Mt 24:29. Then, in sequential order, Jesus comes and all see Him in v.30. He then gathers the Elect from the every part of the earth in v.31. THAT is the Day of the Lord. It comes not at the end of the one 'seven,' but after the shortened Great Tribulation.

As further proof, by the time that Rev 16:15 happens, some of God's Wrath has already gone out as demonstrated by the avenging Angel who adds blood to the Day of the Lord Wrath that follows the Rapture. We are not appointed to Wrath; ergo: the Rapture is Pre-Wrath. While some are left behind to complete the number of the fifth Seal, the only ones required to be left behind are the Two Witnesses. If any others are left behind, they too would be martyred if they are going to gain entry to Heaven. Any other death, especially from God's Wrath, just marks them as part of the "not saved" wicked.

Those in the Church who are not willing to wait, but panic, have lost their faith, and so don't believe - but in trying to save their life, will lose it. This is the test that will come upon the whole world which makes the Great Tribulation so terrible, and many will succumb, buying "oil" for their lamps leaves them out of the wedding feast because in order to "buy" the oil, they receive the "mark." And none who receive the "mark" enter Heaven.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. Matthew 11:16-17