LET'S SEE IF JESUS WAS TALKING ABOUT THE RAPTURE OR HIS SECOND COMING WHEN HE SAID, "NO ONE KNOWS THE DAY NOR THE HOUR"

[ewq1938]

I am totally disappointed in you

I am more disappointed in anyone teaching Pre-trib, a non-scriptural theory.

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them [tereo ek] from the evil one.

Jesus did not pray that God would take people out of this world to keep them from the evil one. That means Jesus does not approve of rapturing people out of this world to protect them from the evil one. Since Jesus does not approve of that then why do you (anyone reading that believes in a pre-trib rapture that takes people out of this world to keep them from the evil one) support such a concept?

No one is going to be taken out of the world so they can be "kept" from the evil one. That's not how God does things. The rapture is not an exception to that.

Anyone teaching a Pre-trib rapture is going directly against the teaching of Jesus in the above verse.

 

[The Light]

I am more disappointed in anyone teaching Pre-trib, a non-scriptural theory.

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them [tereo ek] from the evil one.

Talking about the disciples. Who would evangelize? Totally out of context example

Jesus did not pray that God would take people out of this world to keep them from the evil one. That means Jesus does not approve of rapturing people out of this world to protect them from the evil one. Since Jesus does not approve of that then why do you (anyone reading that believes in a pre-trib rapture that takes people out of this world to keep them from the evil one) support such a concept?

God took Noah to the clouds on the ark and took Lot out of Sodom.

No one is going to be taken out of the world so they can be "kept" from the evil one. That's not how God does things. The rapture is not an exception to that.

Anyone teaching a Pre-trib rapture is going directly against the teaching of Jesus in the above verse.

Anyone not teaching pretrib is not teaching the truth.

 

[David in NJ]

Talking about the disciples. Who would evangelize? Totally out of context example

God took Noah to the clouds on the ark and took Lot out of Sodom.

Anyone not teaching pretrib is not teaching the truth.

To your incorrect three points:

1.) Jesus prayed for the Disciples and ALL who would believe on Him - John 17:20-21

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

2.) Noah and Lot were delivered from God's Wrath AFTER they endured the greatest tribulation the world had ever seen up to that time.

3.) Anyone preaching pre-trib is preaching falsehood = the doctrines of men that oppose God's words.

An astonishing and horrible thing
Has been committed in the land:
The prophets prophesy falsely,
And the priests rule by their own power;
And My people love to have it so.
But what will you do in the end?
Jeremiah 5:30-31

"Woe to you when all men speak well of you,
For so did their fathers to the false prophets." - Warning from the LORD Jesus Christ

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[The Light]

To your incorrect three points:

1.) Jesus prayed for the Disciples and ALL who would believe on Him - John 17:20-21

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Maybe you should keep reading so you can understand what Jesus prayed for those who believe in Him through their word. Here, let's get the complete story instead of an out of context story.

John 14
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

I don't notice that Jesus prayed to keep those who believe in Him in this world.

2.) Noah and Lot were delivered from God's Wrath AFTER they endured the greatest tribulation the world had ever seen up to that time.

Noah represents the Church as Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood. Lot represents the seed of the woman, as the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came.

3.) Anyone preaching pre-trib is preaching falsehood = the doctrines of men that oppose God's words.

This is your opinion based on a lack of understanding. The bridegroom is at the door and is coming for the bride, and yet you do not see. Soon, you will understand as you will be in the time of testing. I wish it were not so brother, but you cannot see and lack understanding.

“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."

This happens during the 70th week of Daniel. This is for the Jews as the fullness of the Gentiles will have already come in and the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Exactly. This occurs at the 6th seal. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Completely different than the Lord Himself coming at the trump of God. How do you not understand these differences?

 

[Zao is life]

The fullness of the Gentiles has not come in Fullness of the Gentiles. Therefore, part of Israel does not have its blindness removed. But no concern, He is at the door.

Israel = those who are in Christ. The Gentiles who are in Christ joined to the Jews in Christ, and so all Israel shall be saved. The deliverer who came out of Zion turned away ungodliness from Jacob, for this is His covenant with us after taking away our sins.

But this still has nothing to do with the fact that you have the great tribulation conflated with the wrath of God. The great tribulation is the tribulation of the saints at the hand of the beast. The wrath of God follows after the rapture, which follows the resurrection that will take place when Christ appears, immediately after the tribulation of those days.

 

[ewq1938]

God took Noah to the clouds on the ark

No, untrue. The Ark was a boat that floated on water. There was no rapture up to the first heaven (clouds of the atmosphere)

 

[The Light]

Israel = those who are in Christ. The Gentiles who are in Christ joined to the Jews in Christ, and so all Israel shall be saved. The deliverer who came out of Zion turned away ungodliness from Jacob, for this is His covenant with us after taking away our sins.

But this still has nothing to do with the fact that you have the great tribulation conflated with the wrath of God. The great tribulation is the tribulation of the saints at the hand of the beast. The wrath of God follows after the rapture which follows the resurrection that will take place when Christ appears, immediately after the tribulation of those days.

Brother, you got me all wrong. I fully understand that the tribulation is not the wrath of God. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal and then the wrath of God begins.

What you don't understand is that the Church is in heaven before the seals are opened.

Rev 5
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

It is the seed of the woman, Israel that is raptured at the 6th seal before the wrath of God. Only the nation of Israel, those that have fled to a place of protection and unbelievers go through the wrath of God.

There are two raptures. One for the Church at the trump of God and one for the seed of the woman at the last trump. One when it is like the days of Noah. Likewise also, one when it is like the days of Lot. One when the dead in Christ rise first and later the alive believers that remain are caught up and one when the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye.

No doubt that most that believe in a pretrib rapture do not understand that the tribulation is not the wrath of God. However, when you understand that there are two raptures everything falls into place perfectly.

 

[The Light]

No, untrue. The Ark was a boat that floated on water. There was no rapture up to the first heaven (clouds of the atmosphere)

One remained and one left. Do you think that those in the ark are yelling,...........Don't leave us here? No. It's the ones without the ark that remain. Those in the ark are lifted from the surface of the earth.

 

[ewq1938]

There are two raptures.

The bible only speaks of one rapture of a large group of people in the endtimes. Pretrib invents two raptures to go along with two coming of Christ. This is a perfect example of "If it isn't in the bible, it isn't true!"

 

[ewq1938]

One remained and one left.

No, one was taken (means accepted in the Greek) and one was left (means rejected in the Greek).

Those in the ark are lifted from the surface of the earth.

Not into the first heaven where the clouds are. They were still on the Earth just as a swimmer is still on the Earth which doesn't have to mean on solid ground.

 

[The Light]

The bible only speaks of one rapture of a large group of people in the endtimes. Pretrib invents two raptures to go along with two coming of Christ. This is a perfect example of "If it isn't in the bible, it isn't true!"

Mmm.

There are two raptures. One for the Church at the trump of God and one for the seed of the woman at the last trump. One when it is like the days of Noah. Likewise also, one when it is like the days of Lot. One when the dead in Christ rise first and later the alive believers that remain are caught up and one when the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye.

One at the trump of God or voice of God and one at the last trump blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

I realize that you think that the 7th trumpet blown by an angel is the last trump. How can that be when the nations are told to observe the Feast of Tabernacles every year and on the eighth day the trumpet is blown. So your last trump is without merit. You have lots of errors in your logic that are easily dispatched by the written Word of God.

 

[The Light]

No, one was taken (means accepted in the Greek) and one was left (means rejected in the Greek).





Not into the first heaven where the clouds are. They were still on the Earth just as a swimmer is still on the Earth which doesn't have to mean on solid ground.

Soon enough you will find that your religious beliefs are in error.

 

[ewq1938]

Soon enough you will find that your religious beliefs are in error.

You should start a car company because that was a dodge.

 

[ewq1938]

Mmm.

There are two raptures.

No, there is one.

One for the Church at the trump of God and one for the seed of the woman at the last trump.

The seed of the woman is the church.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

Maybe you should keep reading so you can understand what Jesus prayed for those who believe in Him through their word. Here, let's get the complete story instead of an out of context story.

John 14
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

I don't notice that Jesus prayed to keep those who believe in Him in this world.

Noah represents the Church as Noah was in the ark 7 days before the flood. Lot represents the seed of the woman, as the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came.


This is your opinion based on a lack of understanding. The bridegroom is at the door and is coming for the bride, and yet you do not see. Soon, you will understand as you will be in the time of testing. I wish it were not so brother, but you cannot see and lack understanding.


This happens during the 70th week of Daniel. This is for the Jews as the fullness of the Gentiles will have already come in and the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel.


Exactly. This occurs at the 6th seal. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Completely different than the Lord Himself coming at the trump of God. How do you not understand these differences?

Your response is typical and lacks any scriptural support.

Your very first response is completely foolish and is wilful ignorance, for the LORD included ALL of His Elect in that prayer.

John 17:9 - "I ask on their behalf. I do not ask on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those You have given Me; for they are Yours."

You lack humility before the LORD and His word whereby you believe you can add your own words upon His and alter them at will.

Just as the Apostle Paul wrote: "But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren....and..."they will not endure sound doctrine".

Thus saith the LORD:
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

 

[David in NJ]

Mmm.

There are two raptures. One for the Church at the trump of God and one for the seed of the woman at the last trump. One when it is like the days of Noah. Likewise also, one when it is like the days of Lot. One when the dead in Christ rise first and later the alive believers that remain are caught up and one when the dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye.

One at the trump of God or voice of God and one at the last trump blown on the Feast of Trumpets.

I realize that you think that the 7th trumpet blown by an angel is the last trump. How can that be when the nations are told to observe the Feast of Tabernacles every year and on the eighth day the trumpet is blown. So your last trump is without merit. You have lots of errors in your logic that are easily dispatched by the written Word of God.

Your Post is in complete violation of the Commandment:
Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

No where in Holy Scripture does God declare more then one Second Coming of Christ with the Resurrection followed by the Rapture.

"the trump of God" is the "last trump" as declared by the Holy Spirit thru the Apostle Paul = 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Cor ch15

You are not in a good place right now and are in need of humility before God and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Zao is life]

Like the days of Noah. like the days of Lot.

FIRST WOE

5th trumpet. Bottomless pit is opened (Rev.9:1-12).

- locusts -

SECOND WOE

The second "woe" is linked by the text to both:

(A) The 6th trumpet (Rev.9:12-13); and

(B) The period during which the two witnesses are prophesying (Rev.11:3-14) - 1,260 DAYS.

THIRD WOE

7th trumpet

5th trumpet: First woe. The abyss is opened (Rev.9:1-2). The beast ascends from the abyss (Rev.17:8). He will make war against the saints and overcome them (Rev.13:7).

6th TRUMPET: 2nd woe (Rev.9:13-21). Armies are being gathered for battle. The two witnesses are prophesying
-- 1,260 DAYS --
-- 42 MONTHS --

6th bowl of wrath (Rev.16:12-16). Armies are being gathered for battle.

"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." (Revelation.16:15).

6th seal The kings of the earth are trying to hide from the wrath of the Lamb.

The saints are the faithful kings of the earth who are ruled over by Christ (Rev.1:5). Those who are unfaithful "Christians" are the kings of the earth ruled over by the harlot, Babylon the Great (Rev.17:18), who commit fornication with her (Rev.18:3), and weep and wail over her destruction (Rev.18:9).

(These unfaithful kings of the earth are hardly the same as the ten kings who "will hate the harlot, render her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire", Rev.17:16).

The unfaithful are also the kings of the earth who will be trying to hide from the wrath of the Lamb as in the 6th seal. The resurrection and the rapture has just taken place at this point, and they have been left behind. Babylon the Great has also just been destroyed, so they will know. The sun and the moon being darkened and the stars falling from the heavens are metaphors. (the same metaphors that are used in Revelation 12:1 for all Israel).

6th seal, 6th trumpet, 6th bowl of wrath. 666. ​

7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl of wrath. 777.

Noah's and Lot's days are merely two examples - types or foreshadows - of what happens to all those left behind when the wrath of God comes. No chance for those left behind outside the ark. No chance for those left behind who did not flee with Lot. PS: The ark is a type of Jesus. If someone is not in the ark when the flood comes, well, then ..

7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl of wrath. 777:

"Voices, thunderings, Lightnings, and an earthquake" are always a metaphor for when God speaks from heaven: We see the same metaphor in Exodus 20:18, we see it used in poetic form by David in 2 Samuel 22:14-15, we see it proceeding from the throne of God in Revelation 4:5. And we see the same metaphor used in the seventh seal, the seventh trumpet, and the seventh plague or bowl of wrath:

7th seal (Revelation 8:5-6).

And the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar, and cast it into the earth.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And voices and thunderings and lightnings and an earthquake occurred.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

The events described in the seven trumpets and seven last plagues do not follow the loosening of the seventh seal. It's not a chronology but an unveiling. The 7th seal had to be loosed before anyone could look at the corresponding things written in the scroll:

7th trumpet (Revelation 11:19)

And the temple of God was opened in Heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His covenant,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and occurred lightnings and voices, and thunders and an earthquake, and a great hail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7th bowl of wrath (Revelation 16:17-18)

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air. And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And voices and thunders and lightnings occurred. And there was a great earthquake, such as has not been since men were on the earth, so mighty and so great an earthquake.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The type of this is the walls of Jericho falling the seventh time the people marched around the city on the seventh day, when the seventh trumpet sounded (Joshua 6:1-20).

So now that the seals have all been loosened, the scroll unrolls:

Revelation 8:6
"And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound." (the scroll could only unroll once all the seals had been loosened).

The seals, trumpets and bowls of the Revelation (unveiling) are not a series of chronological events. It is an unveiling.

There is no resurrection and rapture before Christ appears. And in Revelation 16:15 He tells us when He will appear. That is why it's there. Jesus is telling us when He will appear. It's the first time He speaks directly to His churches after the messages to each of the seven churches. It's exactly the same as this:
​

29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Matthew 24.

 

[David in NJ]

FIRST WOE

5th trumpet. Bottomless pit is opened (Rev.9:1-12).

- locusts -

SECOND WOE

The second "woe" is linked by the text to both:

(A) The 6th trumpet (Rev.9:12-13); and

(B) The period during which the two witnesses are prophesying (Rev.11:3-14) - 1,260 DAYS.

THIRD WOE

7th trumpet

5th trumpet: First woe. The abyss is opened (Rev.9:1-2). The beast ascends from the abyss (Rev.17:8). He will make war against the saints and overcome them (Rev.13:7).

6th TRUMPET: 2nd woe (Rev.9:13-21). Armies are being gathered for battle. The two witnesses are prophesying
-- 1,260 DAYS --
-- 42 MONTHS --

6th bowl of wrath (Rev.16:12-16). Armies are being gathered for battle.

"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." (Revelation.16:15).

6th seal The kings of the earth are trying to hide from the wrath of the Lamb.

The saints are the faithful kings of the earth who are ruled over by Christ (Rev.1:5). Those who are unfaithful "Christians" are the kings of the earth ruled over by the harlot, Babylon the Great (Rev.17:18), who commit fornication with her (Rev.18:3), and weep and wail over her destruction (Rev.18:9).

(These unfaithful kings of the earth are hardly the same as the ten kings who "will hate the harlot, render her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire", Rev.17:16).

The unfaithful are also the kings of the earth who will be trying to hide from the wrath of the Lamb as in the 6th seal. The resurrection and the rapture has just taken place at this point, and they have been left behind. Babylon the Great has also just been destroyed, so they will know. The sun and the moon being darkened and the stars falling from the heavens are metaphors. (the same metaphors that are used in Revelation 12:1 for all Israel).

6th seal, 6th trumpet, 6th bowl of wrath. 666. ​

7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl of wrath. 777.

Noah's and Lot's days are merely two examples - types or foreshadows - of what happens to all those left behind when the wrath of God comes. No chance for those left behind outside the ark. No chance for those left behind who did not flee with Lot. PS: The ark is a type of Jesus. If someone is not in the ark when the flood comes, well, then ..

7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl of wrath. 777:

"Voices, thunderings, Lightnings, and an earthquake" are always a metaphor for when God speaks from heaven: We see the same metaphor in Exodus 20:18, we see it used in poetic form by David in 2 Samuel 22:14-15, we see it proceeding from the throne of God in Revelation 4:5. And we see the same metaphor used in the seventh seal, the seventh trumpet, and the seventh plague or bowl of wrath:

7th seal (Revelation 8:5-6).

And the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar, and cast it into the earth.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And voices and thunderings and lightnings and an earthquake occurred.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

The events described in the seven trumpets and seven last plagues do not follow the loosening of the seventh seal. It's not a chronology but an unveiling. The 7th seal had to be loosed before anyone could look at the corresponding things written in the scroll:

7th trumpet (Revelation 11:19)

And the temple of God was opened in Heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His covenant,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and occurred lightnings and voices, and thunders and an earthquake, and a great hail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7th bowl of wrath (Revelation 16:17-18)

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air. And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And voices and thunders and lightnings occurred. And there was a great earthquake, such as has not been since men were on the earth, so mighty and so great an earthquake.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The type of this is the walls of Jericho falling the seventh time the people marched around the city on the seventh day, when the seventh trumpet sounded (Joshua 6:1-20).

So now that the seals have all been loosened, the scroll unrolls:

Revelation 8:6
"And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound." (the scroll could only unroll once all the seals had been loosened).

The seals, trumpets and bowls of the Revelation (unveiling) are not a series of chronological events. It is an unveiling.

There is no resurrection and rapture before Christ appears. And in Revelation 16:15 He tells us when He will appear. That is why it's there. Jesus is telling us when He will appear. It's the first time He speaks directly to His churches after the messages to each of the seven churches. It's exactly the same as this:
​

29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Matthew 24.

7 is the number of REST / PERFECTION / COMPLETE

There are three 7's as you pointed out = FATHER7 , SON7, HOLY SPIRIT7

Revelation 10:7
but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.

 

[David in NJ]

FIRST WOE

5th trumpet. Bottomless pit is opened (Rev.9:1-12).

- locusts -

SECOND WOE

The second "woe" is linked by the text to both:

(A) The 6th trumpet (Rev.9:12-13); and

(B) The period during which the two witnesses are prophesying (Rev.11:3-14) - 1,260 DAYS.

THIRD WOE

7th trumpet

5th trumpet: First woe. The abyss is opened (Rev.9:1-2). The beast ascends from the abyss (Rev.17:8). He will make war against the saints and overcome them (Rev.13:7).

6th TRUMPET: 2nd woe (Rev.9:13-21). Armies are being gathered for battle. The two witnesses are prophesying
-- 1,260 DAYS --
-- 42 MONTHS --

6th bowl of wrath (Rev.16:12-16). Armies are being gathered for battle.

"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." (Revelation.16:15).

6th seal The kings of the earth are trying to hide from the wrath of the Lamb.

The saints are the faithful kings of the earth who are ruled over by Christ (Rev.1:5). Those who are unfaithful "Christians" are the kings of the earth ruled over by the harlot, Babylon the Great (Rev.17:18), who commit fornication with her (Rev.18:3), and weep and wail over her destruction (Rev.18:9).

(These unfaithful kings of the earth are hardly the same as the ten kings who "will hate the harlot, render her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire", Rev.17:16).

The unfaithful are also the kings of the earth who will be trying to hide from the wrath of the Lamb as in the 6th seal. The resurrection and the rapture has just taken place at this point, and they have been left behind. Babylon the Great has also just been destroyed, so they will know. The sun and the moon being darkened and the stars falling from the heavens are metaphors. (the same metaphors that are used in Revelation 12:1 for all Israel).

6th seal, 6th trumpet, 6th bowl of wrath. 666. ​

7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl of wrath. 777.

Noah's and Lot's days are merely two examples - types or foreshadows - of what happens to all those left behind when the wrath of God comes. No chance for those left behind outside the ark. No chance for those left behind who did not flee with Lot. PS: The ark is a type of Jesus. If someone is not in the ark when the flood comes, well, then ..

7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl of wrath. 777:

"Voices, thunderings, Lightnings, and an earthquake" are always a metaphor for when God speaks from heaven: We see the same metaphor in Exodus 20:18, we see it used in poetic form by David in 2 Samuel 22:14-15, we see it proceeding from the throne of God in Revelation 4:5. And we see the same metaphor used in the seventh seal, the seventh trumpet, and the seventh plague or bowl of wrath:

7th seal (Revelation 8:5-6).

And the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar, and cast it into the earth.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And voices and thunderings and lightnings and an earthquake occurred.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

The events described in the seven trumpets and seven last plagues do not follow the loosening of the seventh seal. It's not a chronology but an unveiling. The 7th seal had to be loosed before anyone could look at the corresponding things written in the scroll:

7th trumpet (Revelation 11:19)

And the temple of God was opened in Heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His covenant,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and occurred lightnings and voices, and thunders and an earthquake, and a great hail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7th bowl of wrath (Revelation 16:17-18)

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air. And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And voices and thunders and lightnings occurred. And there was a great earthquake, such as has not been since men were on the earth, so mighty and so great an earthquake.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The type of this is the walls of Jericho falling the seventh time the people marched around the city on the seventh day, when the seventh trumpet sounded (Joshua 6:1-20).

So now that the seals have all been loosened, the scroll unrolls:

Revelation 8:6
"And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound." (the scroll could only unroll once all the seals had been loosened).

The seals, trumpets and bowls of the Revelation (unveiling) are not a series of chronological events. It is an unveiling.

There is no resurrection and rapture before Christ appears. And in Revelation 16:15 He tells us when He will appear. That is why it's there. Jesus is telling us when He will appear. It's the first time He speaks directly to His churches after the messages to each of the seven churches. It's exactly the same as this:
​

29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Matthew 24.

YES = Unveiling = 'Look at this here, OK now look at this, Got it? Yes, OK now Look at this.....'

The Unveiling all points back to the OT Prophetic Word and Promises = and the Word that became Flesh and His Death & Resurrection and the Holy Spirit and the Saints and the Faith of the Saints and the wicked one and the Battles and the VICTORY = GLORY

 

[David in NJ]

FIRST WOE

5th trumpet. Bottomless pit is opened (Rev.9:1-12).

- locusts -

SECOND WOE

The second "woe" is linked by the text to both:

(A) The 6th trumpet (Rev.9:12-13); and

(B) The period during which the two witnesses are prophesying (Rev.11:3-14) - 1,260 DAYS.

THIRD WOE

7th trumpet

5th trumpet: First woe. The abyss is opened (Rev.9:1-2). The beast ascends from the abyss (Rev.17:8). He will make war against the saints and overcome them (Rev.13:7).

6th TRUMPET: 2nd woe (Rev.9:13-21). Armies are being gathered for battle. The two witnesses are prophesying
-- 1,260 DAYS --
-- 42 MONTHS --

6th bowl of wrath (Rev.16:12-16). Armies are being gathered for battle.

"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." (Revelation.16:15).

6th seal The kings of the earth are trying to hide from the wrath of the Lamb.

The saints are the faithful kings of the earth who are ruled over by Christ (Rev.1:5). Those who are unfaithful "Christians" are the kings of the earth ruled over by the harlot, Babylon the Great (Rev.17:18), who commit fornication with her (Rev.18:3), and weep and wail over her destruction (Rev.18:9).

(These unfaithful kings of the earth are hardly the same as the ten kings who "will hate the harlot, render her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire", Rev.17:16).

The unfaithful are also the kings of the earth who will be trying to hide from the wrath of the Lamb as in the 6th seal. The resurrection and the rapture has just taken place at this point, and they have been left behind. Babylon the Great has also just been destroyed, so they will know. The sun and the moon being darkened and the stars falling from the heavens are metaphors. (the same metaphors that are used in Revelation 12:1 for all Israel).

6th seal, 6th trumpet, 6th bowl of wrath. 666. ​

7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl of wrath. 777.

Noah's and Lot's days are merely two examples - types or foreshadows - of what happens to all those left behind when the wrath of God comes. No chance for those left behind outside the ark. No chance for those left behind who did not flee with Lot. PS: The ark is a type of Jesus. If someone is not in the ark when the flood comes, well, then ..

7th seal, 7th trumpet, 7th bowl of wrath. 777:

"Voices, thunderings, Lightnings, and an earthquake" are always a metaphor for when God speaks from heaven: We see the same metaphor in Exodus 20:18, we see it used in poetic form by David in 2 Samuel 22:14-15, we see it proceeding from the throne of God in Revelation 4:5. And we see the same metaphor used in the seventh seal, the seventh trumpet, and the seventh plague or bowl of wrath:

7th seal (Revelation 8:5-6).

And the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the altar, and cast it into the earth.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And voices and thunderings and lightnings and an earthquake occurred.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

The events described in the seven trumpets and seven last plagues do not follow the loosening of the seventh seal. It's not a chronology but an unveiling. The 7th seal had to be loosed before anyone could look at the corresponding things written in the scroll:

7th trumpet (Revelation 11:19)

And the temple of God was opened in Heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His covenant,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and occurred lightnings and voices, and thunders and an earthquake, and a great hail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7th bowl of wrath (Revelation 16:17-18)

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air. And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And voices and thunders and lightnings occurred. And there was a great earthquake, such as has not been since men were on the earth, so mighty and so great an earthquake.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The type of this is the walls of Jericho falling the seventh time the people marched around the city on the seventh day, when the seventh trumpet sounded (Joshua 6:1-20).

So now that the seals have all been loosened, the scroll unrolls:

Revelation 8:6
"And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound." (the scroll could only unroll once all the seals had been loosened).

The seals, trumpets and bowls of the Revelation (unveiling) are not a series of chronological events. It is an unveiling.

There is no resurrection and rapture before Christ appears. And in Revelation 16:15 He tells us when He will appear. That is why it's there. Jesus is telling us when He will appear. It's the first time He speaks directly to His churches after the messages to each of the seven churches. It's exactly the same as this:
​

29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of man shall appear in the heavens. And then all the tribes of the earth shall mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of the heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Matthew 24.

Ponder this = "Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place."