Luke 15 demonstrates that Jesus is a universalist

[Patrick1966]

Do you have any reading comprehension?

 

[Patrick1966]

Do you have any reading comprehension?

God bless you my brother. Have a wonderful rest of your day.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

anti-universalists have to spin, twist, and somersault to avoid the very plain and simple statement of 1 Timothy 4:10

 

[Michiah-Imla]

God bless you my brother. Have a wonderful rest of your day.

Why the inordinate sensitivity?

Do you expect your inflammatory comments to go unchallenged?

 

[lforrest]

So then it's a GOOD thing when people die as infants because they're assured of avoiding damnation, right? It could even be argued that a loving parent SHOULD KILL their infant child in order to ensure that their child gets to Heaven rather than eternal damnation, right?

That is a human centric view, assuming that the purpose of this life is to avoid damnation.

 

[Patrick1966]

That is a human centric view, assuming that the purpose of this life is to avoid damnation.

Back when I believed in eternal damnation, I pondered this question. It didn't make sense to me that, a person who would have lived a full life and been condemned to eternal damnation is instead saved and goes to Heaven only because they died in infancy.

Does that make sense? Of course not.

Calvinists will claim that many dead babies are sent to eternal damnation, but that also doesn't make any sense at all and it's certainly contrary to Jesus's nature.

The only logical conclusion is that ALL are, eventually, saved from eternal damnation. People may indeed be damned, but it's not forever and it's not solely for punishment but also for restoration

 

[Jack]

You see, the belief in eternal torture is not logical, not scriptural, and not consistent with the nature of Jesus.

Someone forgot to tell Jesus.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Patrick1966]

Someone forgot to tell Jesus.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Which translation did you use?

 

[dev553344]

The message is clear - NONE will be lost forever!

Luke 15​

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English Standard Version​

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The Parable of the Lost Sheep​

15 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. 2 And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.”
3 So he told them this parable: 4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ 7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

The Parable of the Lost Coin​

8 “Or what woman, having ten silver coins,[a] if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it? 9 And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.’ 10 Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

The Parable of the Prodigal Son​

11 And he said, “There was a man who had two sons. 12 And the younger of them said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of property that is coming to me.’ And he divided his property between them. 13 Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took a journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in reckless living. 14 And when he had spent everything, a severe famine arose in that country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to[b] one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. 16 And he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate, and no one gave him anything.
17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father's hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me as one of your hired servants.”’ 20 And he arose and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’[c] 22 But the father said to his servants,[d] ‘Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. 23 And bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate. 24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.’ And they began to celebrate.
25 “Now his older son was in the field, and as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 And he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant. 27 And he said to him, ‘Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf, because he has received him back safe and sound.’ 28 But he was angry and refused to go in. His father came out and entreated him, 29 but he answered his father, ‘Look, these many years I have served you, and I never disobeyed your command, yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours came, who has devoured your property with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him!’ 31 And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that is mine is yours. 32 It was fitting to celebrate and be glad, for this your brother was dead, and is alive; he was lost, and is found.’”

Nonsense. We all have read the bible and know the truth,

 

[Jack]

Which translation did you use?

30 or 40 of them. They all say you're wrong.

 

[Jack]

Satan LOVES it when his messengers convince people that there is no eternal Hell!

 

[Patrick1966]

30 or 40 of them. They all say you're wrong.

Which Bible translation did you use? KJV? Which one, please?

 

[Jack]

Which Bible translation did you use? KJV? Which one, please?

Every Bible I know of says you're wrong including YLT! Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.

Luke 16:19-24 (YLT)
19 `And--a certain man was rich, and was clothed in purple and fine linen, making merry sumptuously every day,
20 and there was a certain poor man, by name Lazarus, who was laid at his porch, full of sores,
21 and desiring to be filled from the crumbs that are falling from the table of the rich man; yea, also the dogs, coming, were licking his sores.
22 `And it came to pass, that the poor man died, and that he was carried away by the messengers to the bosom of Abraham--and the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 and in the hades having lifted up his eyes, being in torments, he doth see Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom,
24 and having cried, he said, Father Abraham, deal kindly with me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and may cool my tongue, because I am distressed in this flame.

 

[Patrick1966]

Every Bible I know of says you're wrong including YLT!

Luke 16:19-24 (YLT)
19 `And--a certain man was rich, and was clothed in purple and fine linen, making merry sumptuously every day,
20 and there was a certain poor man, by name Lazarus, who was laid at his porch, full of sores,
21 and desiring to be filled from the crumbs that are falling from the table of the rich man; yea, also the dogs, coming, were licking his sores.
22 `And it came to pass, that the poor man died, and that he was carried away by the messengers to the bosom of Abraham--and the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 and in the hades having lifted up his eyes, being in torments, he doth see Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom,
24 and having cried, he said, Father Abraham, deal kindly with me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and may cool my tongue, because I am distressed in this flame.

Ok. I tried. Goodbye.

 

[Jack]

Ok. I tried. Goodbye.

Yeah, you tried to tell us that Jesus is wrong.

 

[St. SteVen]

This is where the anti-universalists have to spin, twist, and somersault to avoid the very plain and simple statement of 1 Timothy 4:10 that says that Jesus is the "savior of ALL people".

Agreed.
The way the verse is written, "those who believe" is a subset of "all people".
To say otherwise is to obscure the plain reading with man-made doctrine.

1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

 

[Jack]

Mt 7 Narrow is the way to life and FEW there be who find it.

I'll believe Jesus!

 

[dev553344]

Mt 7 Narrow is the way to life and FEW there be who find it.

I'll believe Jesus!

Although there are few that find it, God knows where it is and how to lead people to it. So that argument isn't totally valid.

I don't believe in universalism, but I also want God to save as many children as he desires so that his Joy is full.

 

[Jack]

Although there are few that find it, God knows where it is and how to lead people to it. So that argument isn't totally valid.

I don't believe in universalism, but I also want God to save as many children as he desires so that his Joy is full.

The majority will burn in Hell, but Christians have prayer / faith powers to save many also!

Acts 16 Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you'll be saved, you and your household!

It's as valid as John 3:16. Satan has deceived many who will lose their loved ones forever.

 

[St. SteVen]

Back when I believed in eternal damnation, I pondered this question. It didn't make sense to me that, a person who would have lived a full life and been condemned to eternal damnation is instead saved and goes to Heaven only because they died in infancy.

That's a great question, really.
The standard answer is that there is only one way to God. "Receive Jesus as Savior..." (and all the baggage that goes with it)
But the question you asked immediately adds exceptions to the standard answer. The whole thing begins to unravel.

Other questions just add fuel to the funeral pyre.
- What of those who never heard the gospel?
- Those with mental illness?
- Those under the "age of accountability"?
- Those God never wooed by his Spirit?
- Those who weren't "faithful" until the end? (dementia)

The only logical conclusion is that ALL are, eventually, saved from eternal damnation. People may indeed be damned, but it's not forever and it's not solely for punishment but also for restoration

Right.
Is God in the business of restoring lives, or torturing the VAST majority that were created in his image
for all eternity with no hope of escape? Should be obvious. But...