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Say what? Who is all?Nonsense. We all have read the bible and know the truth,
Everyone that has sound doctrine has read the bible. I have read it a few times over. My doctrine appears more clean than some that visit these forums promoting heresy.Say what? Who is all?
Even many Christians have never read the Bible.
And historically, Bibles were not even available for laity to own until the 16th century. (citation needed)
Broad distribution not until the 19th century. And not globally, or in every language. Still isn't.
Frankly, that scripture cannot be about our eternal destiny UNLESS... God is playing a high-stakes game of hide and seek with our souls.Although there are few that find it, God knows where it is and how to lead people to it. So that argument isn't totally valid.
How do you define "heresy"?Everyone that has sound doctrine has read the bible. I have read it a few times over. My doctrine appears more clean than some that visit these forums promoting heresy.
Perhaps. I guess we have Jesus promoting true doctrine in the bible. Anything that defies Jesus' teachings is probably some form of heresy.How do you define "heresy"?
Was Jesus basically accused of heresy? (yes)
What about Martin Luther? (and many others)
I think heresy is WAY underrated. - LOL
My understanding is that doctrine is man-made.Perhaps. I guess we have Jesus promoting true doctrine in the bible. Anything that defies Jesus' teachings is probably some form of heresy.
That sounds too bleak for me to accept. The book of Revelation spells out countless people worshiping Jesus in the end.How many will burn in Hell. Jesus clearly warned us.
Luke 13
23 Then one said to Him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And He said to them,
24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell! Satan LOVES Universalism!
And Revelation also confirms Jesus' clear warning.That sounds too bleak for me to accept. The book of Revelation spells out countless people worshiping Jesus in the end.
Sure, but who is the beast and false prophet. We know that the anti-christ is a spirit that denies that Jesus is the Messiah. Perhaps the false prophet is that same spirit. And he denies that Jesus is the Messiah.And Revelation also confirms Jesus' clear warning.
Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Jesus said people will receive the exact same punishment "forever and ever".Sure, but who is the beast and false prophet. We know that the anti-christ is a spirit that denies that Jesus is the Messiah. Perhaps the false prophet is that same spirit. And he denies that Jesus is the Messiah.
The savior of all people, especially of those who believe, yes. We need to quote the whole verse to see the whole picture. In that very verse, 1 Timothy 4:10, Paul himself distinguishes between the unlimited, general nature of the sufficiency of Christ's atonement to cover all, but that His atonement is limited and specific in that it only applies to or is efficacious for believers ~ as I said, God's elect, those given to Christ by the Father.This is where the anti-universalists have to spin, twist, and somersault to avoid the very plain and simple statement of 1 Timothy 4:10 that says that Jesus is the "savior of ALL people".
So then it's a GOOD thing when people die as infants because they're assured of avoiding damnation, right? It could even be argued that a loving parent SHOULD KILL their infant child in order to ensure that their child gets to Heaven rather than eternal damnation, right?
This is where the anti-universalists have to spin, twist, and somersault to avoid the very plain and simple statement of 1 Timothy 4:10 that says that Jesus is the "savior of ALL people".
Thank you. My understanding and belief is that Jesus's sheep are saved through their faith in him. Everyone else will need to go through the Lake of Fire but that will be temporary and they too will be fixed and will then join the flock. Jesus won't stop until ALL are in the kingdom as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15. Again, this is my understanding/belief.The savior of all people, especially of those who believe, yes. We need to quote the whole verse to see the whole picture. In that very verse, 1 Timothy 4:10, Paul himself distinguishes between the unlimited, general nature of the sufficiency of Christ's atonement to cover all, but that His atonement is limited and specific in that it only applies to or is efficacious for believers ~ as I said, God's elect, those given to Christ by the Father.
Another passage that comes to mind (among many), is Jesus's teaching in John 10. He says, "I am the good shepherd." (He is referring to Psalm 23 here). "I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay My life down for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice." His hearers said, "If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." And Jesus's response was, "I told you and you do not believe... you do not believe because you are not among my sheep."
God does not "spin" or "twist." His word is His word; it is what it is. Not all will be saved, but only those whom God chose in Himself before the foundation of the world, as Paul puts it in Ephesians 1. God has mercy on whom He wills, and He hardens whom He wills... Desiring to show His wrath and to make known His power, God has endured with much patience (this is common grace, given to all) vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of His glory for vessels of mercy, which He has prepared beforehand for glory (this is particular grace, given only to His elect), as Paul puts it in Romans 9.
Grace and peace to you, Patrick.
Follow the logic. If all babies automatically go to Heaven, why should a loving parent risk the baby growing up and being condemned to an eternity of torture?
I have a different view but thank you my brother for sharing yours....ALL cannot mean without exception!
How long do you think God will cook them?Thank you. My understanding and belief is that Jesus's sheep are saved through their faith in him. Everyone else will need to go through the Lake of Fire but that will be temporary and they too will be fixed and will then join the flock. Jesus won't stop until ALL are in the kingdom as mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15. Again, this is my understanding/belief.