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Ritajanice

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Right here I have a problem with your theology.
Fine, no problem...have a nice day.

You cannot work to Love your neighbour.....God softens our hearts to love our neighbour, my belief 100%
You must be birthed in the Spirit, then God as I said does the work of softening our heart.

Why do you think we receive a new heart/ spirit within us?

What’s the purpose of that?

How Can “ You” work to love your neighbour,@Johann ?
 
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Keturah

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Some try really hard to appear & sound like the real thing but just as the winnowing hook lifts the wheat, the chaff blows away by every wind. ( of doctrine)

Discernment come through the Holy Spirit.

I'm reminded of the demon that the seven sons of Sceva tried to cast out........Jesus I know, Paul I know but who are you !
 

Ritajanice

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In the name of Jesus....stay away from those who are in the flesh...Amen!...be led by the Spirit and not the flesh.

Proverbs 26:11​

New International Version​

11 As a dog returns to its vomit,
so fools repeat their folly.

1 Peter 5:8

New International Version

8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
 

Johann

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Fine, no problem...have a nice day.
Whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. 1 John 2:6 ESV
We said last week that this abiding language comes from John 15 where Yeshua tells those who are clean, believers, to abide in Him. It is something that believers are commanded to do, which means it is something different from salvation.

We saw last week that "abides in Him" means exactly the same thing as being in fellowship with Him (1:4), walking in His light (1:7), keeping His commandments 2:3, "knowing Him" in 2:4, being "in Him" 2:5. They are all one and the same experience. Almost all agree that these terms are all synonymous. But most will say they are synonymous for salvation. But I would say that having fellowship with Him, knowing Him, and abiding in Him, it's all the same, they are all synonyms for having a close, intimate relationship with Him.

In 2:3-6 John spoke of obedience to the commandments in general as the way we test ourselves to see if we are in fellowship with Him. Then, in 2:7-11, John goes on to apply this test of obedience more specifically to the area of love. If Yeshua's life and especially His death epitomized love, then those who claim to abide in Him are obligated to live in love.

In verses 7 and 8 John addresses his readers directly and writes about the new commandment. These verses are transitional, moving the readers from the general requirement of obedience to God's commands (2:3-6) to the specific obligation to love fellow believers (2:9-11).

Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard. 1 John 2:7 ESV
Here John writes, "Beloved I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment." And then in the very next verse he writes, "At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you," The fact that John begins to talk about love and hate in verses 9-11 suggests that the commandment in view in verses 7 and 8 is the love commandment from John 13:34. Notice what John writes in:

And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. 2 John 1:5 ESV
The language is very much like verse 7 of our text, but here the commandment is quoted. So, we know that the commandment of 1 John 2:7-8, which in some sense is new and old, is the commandment of love which Yeshua gave to His disciples, namely, "Love one another as I have loved you."

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. John 13:34 ESV
So Yeshua says it's a new command and so does John in verse 8 so how does John say it is old in verse 7? Many years later when the author reminded his community of this command it was no longer new, but familiar and hence old, committed to them since the beginning.

Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard. 1 John 2:7 ESV
"Beloved"—John often calls his readers by affectionate terms. This term was used by the Father to refer to Yeshua at His baptism and transfiguration. It is a common designation of the saved in John's letters (cf. 1 John 3:2,21; 4:1,7,11; and 3 John 1,2,5,11.

If you have the KJV or Young's Literal they have "brother" following the Textus Receptus. "Beloved" is supported by the uncial Greek manuscripts (, A, B, C, P, and the Vulgate, Peshitta, Coptic, and Armenian versions [see Bruce Metzger, A Textual Commentary On the Greek New Testament, p. 708].

"I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment"—the command to love one another was nothing new; Yahweh taught the Israelites this in:

You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:18 ESV
You could sum up the Old Covenant Law in two commands: 1. Love God; and 2. Love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:34-40; Romans 13:8-10).

"But an old commandment that you had from the beginning"—what beginning is he talking about? This is an imperfect active indicative, which refers to the hearer's first encounter with the Gospel message. So "the beginning" in view is the beginning of their Christian life when they first The Word. This is confirmed in 2:24:

Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24 ESV
John is not imposing some novel obligation upon his readers, but only recalling them to what they have known from the very beginning of their Christian walk.

"The old commandment is the word that you have heard"—I think that John stresses that this is an old commandment because the Docetists, the false teachers were parading their new knowledge as a NEW revelation. They claimed to have some "new" truths. John counters them by saying that we don't need new truth, but rather the old truth that we learned early in our Christian experience.

John's message and emphasis is one that has been "from the beginning" and does not represent a doctrinal innovation, as the teaching of the opponents does. This commandment is old in comparison to the innovative teaching of the opponents who have not remained in the apostolic teaching, but have "gone on ahead" (2 John 9), becoming "progressives" in a bad sense.

John was teaching them what Jude called "the faith that was once delivered to the saints":

How is it possible to love God and neighbor passively?
Love is NOT A FEELING but an ACT OF THE WILL!
 

Ritajanice

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How is it possible to love God and neighbor passively?
Love is NOT A FEELING but an ACT OF THE WILL!
I never said it’s a feeling.



An act of the will....so are you saying your will can love God and your neighbour?

What needs to happen before you can love God?...or your neighbour ?

How could I love God by my own will?

Sounds like works based to me..

Got answer..Amen!

When we are born again, God performs a heart transplant, as it were. He gives us a new heart. The power of the Holy Spirit changes our hearts from sin-focused to God-focused. We do not become perfect (1 John 1:8); we still have our sinful flesh and the freedom to choose whether or not to obey it. However, when Jesus died for us on the cross, He broke the power of sin that controls us (Romans 6:10). Receiving Him as our Savior gives us access to God and His power—a power to transform our hearts from sin-hardened to Christ-softened. When we were separated from God with hardened hearts, we found it impossible to please Him. We tended toward selfishness, rebellion, and sin. With new hearts we are declared righteous before God (2 Corinthians 5:21). The Holy Spirit gives us a desire to please God that was foreign to us in our hardened state. Second Corinthians 3:18 says that we “are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.” God’s desire for every human being is that we become like His Son, Jesus (Romans 8:29). We can become like Jesus only when we allow God to rid us of our old, hardened hearts and give us new hearts.
 
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Johann

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I never said it’s a feeling.



An act of the will....so are you saying your will can love God and your neighbour?

What needs to happen before you can love God?...or your neighbour ?

How could I love God by my own will?

Sounds like works based to me..
Mat_5:16 Let your light shine before people in such a way that they may see your good deeds, and praise your Father in heaven.

Mat_6:1 "Take care not to do your good deeds in public, to attract the attention of people; if you do, you will get no reward from your Father in heaven.

Joh_10:32
Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good deeds from my Father. For which of them are you going to stone me?"

Act_9:36 At Joppa there was a woman, a disciple, whose name was Tabitha, which in Greek means Dorcas, that is, Gazelle. S
he had filled her life with good deeds and works of charity, which she was always doing.

Eph_2:10 For He has made us what we are, because He has created us through our union with Christ Jesus for doing good deeds which He beforehand planned for us to do.


1Ti_2:10 but with good deeds; for this is appropriate for women who profess to be pious.

1Ti_5:10 must have a reputation for doing good deeds, as bringing up children, being hospitable to strangers, washing the feet of God's people, helping people in distress, or devoting herself to any sort of doing good.

1Ti_5:25
Good deeds, too, are usually very evident, and if they are not, they cannot be completely concealed.

1Ti_6:18 charge them to continue doing good and being rich in good deeds, open-handed and generous hearted,

Heb_10:24 Let us continue so to consider one another as to stimulate one another to love and good deeds.

Jas_2:14 My brothers, what good is there in a man's saying that he has faith, if he has no good deeds to prove it? Such faith cannot save him, can it?

Jas_2:18 But someone may say, "You have faith, and I have good deeds. Show me your faith without any good deeds, but I will show you mine by my good deeds."


Jas_2:20 But, O senseless man, are you willing to learn that faith without good deeds is worthless?

Jas_2:21 Was not our forefather Abraham shown to be upright by his good deeds, namely, by offering Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jas_2:22 You see that faith cooperated with his good deeds, and by his good deeds faith was made complete;

Jas_2:24 You see that a man is shown to be upright by his good deeds, and not merely by his faith.

Jas_2:25 Was not even Rahab the prostitute shown to be upright by her good deeds, namely, by entertaining the scouts and sending them off by a different road?

Jas_2:26 Just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without good deeds is dead.

Jas_3:13 Who among you is wise and intelligent? Let him show by his noble living that his good deeds are done in humility, which wisdom prompts.

Jas_3:17 The wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of compassion and good deeds, free from doubts and insincerity.

1Pe_2:12 Keep on living upright lives among the heathen, so that, when they slander you as evildoers, by what they see of your good deeds they may come to praise God on the judgment day.

I guess you sit in judgement upon the Scriptures then @Ritajanice -praise the Lord for His D'varim-rightly dividing the D'varim!


2Ti 2:14 Keep on reminding men of these things. Solemnly charge them before God to stop petty debating, which does no good at all but brings destruction on those who hear it.
2Ti 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God an approved workman who has nothing to be ashamed of, who properly presents the message of truth.
2Ti 2:16 Continue shunning worldly, futile phrases, for they lead on to greater depths of godlessness,

You have a good day.
 

Behold

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Tlaw-keeping, However, that did not save him. Only the righteousness of Christ can save a person

Stay right there,...... and you are good to go, as now you are actually responding to my Thread's topic.

And yes, as i wrote... the law and commandments are holy.

The problem is, that many believers are trying to keep them, to stay saved.

"as long as i DO THIS.............i keep myself saved".

So, what ive noticed, is that 100% of believers will say....>"of COURSE Jesus saved me......but now i have to WORK AND WORK AND DO and DO, to stay saved".

That "doing" is normally their "law and commandment keeping", as their Broken Faith.

See, real faith in Christ Believes that Christ saved you, before you did anything good and He keeps you saved, no matter what.

Most believers believe that Christ began their salvation, and then its up to them to DO ENOUGH to try to stay saved.

That mind is " in the flesh", and that believer is "fallen from Grace".
 

Ritajanice

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You have a good day.
You too...the Holy Spirit keeps us remaining in him..or should I say he teaches us to remain in him..my belief.

John 15:5​

New International Version​

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
 
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Johann

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You too...the Holy Spirit keeps us remaining in him...my belief.

John 15:5​

New International Version​

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
I guess you "missed" the Imperatives in Christ Jesus=the nomos/entole/mitzvoth of Yeshua-as recorded in Scriptures that fits in well with John 15:5.
J.
 

Behold

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How is it possible to love God and neighbor passively?
Love is NOT A FEELING but an ACT OF THE WILL!

The Love that God wants us to give to others is not a self will.
Its His Love that flows out of us, as we become more and more like Him, submitted, and obedient...or as Paul teaches...>"I die daily".

"it is no longer I who live"..........or "it is no longer I who love", but "Christ loves through me".

Johann, You are the opposite, as you are SELF WILL, love, and that is not God.
That is YOU.

Listen.....Its the "Love of GOD" that is the love that He provides through us.

That is not your posted theological idea of .......i strain and push myself to care..... SELF WILL.... as that is what an unbeliever's love would try do.
That is the old mind of the flesh, concept of Love..
 
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Ritajanice

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guess you "missed" the Imperatives in Christ Jesus=the nomos/entole/mitzvoth of Yeshua-as recorded in Scriptures that fits in well with John 15:5.
J.
I didn’t miss anything Johann...I am led by the Spirit....my belief...must dash, catch you later..
 

Behold

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I guess you "missed" the Imperatives in Christ Jesus=the nomos/entole/mitzvoth of Yeshua-as recorded in Scriptures that fits in well with John 15:5.
J.


that verse tells you that the power of Christ is to Flow through you.


you are teaching the opposite.....

Your theology is..>"self will"....."SELF< SELF< SELF"....>"what I DO"' Me me me......Self SELF.'""

Christianity is not about YOUR SELF EFFORT.
its about Christ's life living in you, and through you.

You are to DIE to "self". "self will"....and yet everything you teach is...>"here is what my SELF does......My WILL does".. "work work".

Christianity is not about you and me.
Its not about what we can TRY to do by WILL power.
Its about what Christ has done and that HE provides through us.

HE is the Vine........not your self will and self effort to try to do. As when that is your mind, then you are "apart from me you can do nothing".
 
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Johann

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That is now your idea of "i strain and push myself to care".... as that is what an unbeliever's love would try do.
That is the old mind of the flesh, concept of Love..
Incorrect-

Psa_89:28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.


Psa_119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.

Psa_119:88 Quicken me after thy lovingkindness; so shall I keep the testimony of thy mouth.

Psa_119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

Psa_119:134 Deliver me from the oppression of man: so will I keep thy precepts.

1Co_9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

2Co_11:9 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.
But I buffet my body (alla hupōpiazō mou to sōma). In Aristophanes, Aristotle, Plutarch, from hupōpion, and that from hupo and ops (in papyri), the part of the face under the eyes, a blow in the face, to beat black and blue.

In N.T. only here and Luk_18:5 which see. Paul does not, like the Gnostics, consider his sarx or his sōma sinful and evil. But “it is like the horses in a chariot race, which must be kept well in hand by whip and rein if the prize is to be secured” (Robertson and Plummer).

The boxers often used boxing gloves (cestus, of ox-hide bands) which gave telling blows. Paul was not willing for his body to be his master. He found good as the outcome of this self-discipline (2Co_12:7; Rom_8:13; Col_2:23; Col_3:5).

And bring it into bondage (kai doulagōgō). Late compound verb from doulagōgos, in Diodorus Siculus, Epictetus and substantive in papyri. It is the metaphor of the victor leading the vanquished as captive and slave.

Lest by any means (mē pōs). Common conjunction for negative purpose with subjunctive as here (genōmai, second aorist middle).

After that I have preached to others (allois kērūxas). First aorist active participle of kērussō (see note on 1Co_1:23), common verb to preach, from word kērux (herald) and that is probably the idea here. A kērux at the games announced the rules of the game and called out the competitors. So Paul is not merely a herald, but a competitor also.

I myself should be rejected (autos adokimos genōmai). Literally, “I myself should become rejected.” Adokimos is an old adjective used of metals, coin, soil (Heb_6:8) and in a moral sense only by Paul in N.T. (1Co_9:27; 2Co_13:5-7; Rom_1:28; Tit_1:16; 2Ti_3:8).

It means not standing the test (dokimos from dokimazō). Paul means rejected for the prize, not for the entrance to the race. He will fail to win if he breaks the rules of the game (Mat_7:22.). What is the prize before Paul? Is it that reward (misthos) of which he spoke in 1Co_9:18, his glorying of preaching a free gospel? So Edwards argues. Most writers take Paul to refer to the possibility of his rejection in his personal salvation at the end of the race. He does not claim absolute perfection (Php_3:12) and so he presses on. At the end he has serene confidence (2Ti_4:7) with the race run and won. It is a humbling thought for us all to see this wholesome fear instead of smug complacency in this greatest of all heralds of Christ.
Robertson.


Here, the will in perfect harmony with the will of God-the sanctified will, swallowed up in the sweet will of Christ Jesus-I cannot agree with you, we, as believers have WORK to do, no place for passivism or
quietism.

Rom_6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom_6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.


Who is doing the yielding? Before you say "The Holy Spirit"-read again, WHO is DOING the yielding?
 

Johann

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that verse tells you that the power of Christ is to Flow through you.


you are teaching the opposite.....

Your theology is..>"self will"....."SELF< SELF< SELF"....>"what I DO"' Me me me......Self SELF.'""

Christianity is not about YOUR SELF EFFORT.
its about Christ's life living in you, and through you.

You are to DIE to "self". "self will"....and yet everything you teach is...>"here is what my SELF does......My WILL does".. "work work".

Christianity is not about you and me.
Its not about what we can TRY to do by WILL power.
Its about what Christ has done and that HE provides through us.

HE is the Vine........not your self will and self effort to try to do. As when that is your mind, then you are "apart from me you can do nothing".
Already answered you-WITH Scripture references re the sanctified will of the believer in union with Christ.
 

Johann

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An act of the will....so are you saying your will can love God and your neighbour?

What needs to happen before you can love God?...or your neighbour ?

How could I love God by my own will?

Sounds like works based to me..

Got answer..Amen!
Instead of reading the Scripture references I post, answering your question/s-off to Got Questions.org you go.
Circular reasoning.
 

Behold

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Already answered you-WITH Scripture references re the sanctified will of the believer in union with Christ.

Here is your Quote.

"""""""Love is NOT A FEELING but an ACT OF THE WILL!"""""


So, i'll tell you again.

"self will" that you defined as LOVE, is not the LOVE of God.

The Love of God, is GOD's Love., and that is not your "self will" to try to love.
 
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Behold

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Instead of reading the Scripture references I post, answering your question/s-off to Got Questions.org you go.
Circular reasoning.

You're a fool to say that, when its YOU that can't actually respond, but need to post other peoples work.

Ist that right "Mr Cut and Paste"?
Ist that right "Mr Cut and Paste"?
Ist that right "Mr Cut and Paste"?
Ist that right "Mr Cut and Paste"?
Ist that right "Mr Cut and Paste"?
Ist that right "Mr Cut and Paste"?

So, the mental issue, is your theology, fella, that has no basis in God's Grace, and is only able to post works and self effort.

Like this......that you posted.

"""""""Love is NOT A FEELING but an ACT OF THE WILL!"""""
 

Ritajanice

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nstead of reading the Scripture references I post, answering your question/s-off to Got Questions.org you go.
Circular reasoning.
Once again an assumption...I go to Got, because the born agains on there, speak to me through the Spirit.

What you post regarding scripture, yes it’s God word...but it makes no sense to me, I can only understand scripture through the Holy Spirit...not by my own intellect.

And, it’s all in God’s timing...takes time to mature in the Spirit, I have a long way to go.
 

Johann

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I quoted you.

So, that is not "incorrect".

You wrote that your idea of LOVE is this....

""""""Love is NOT A FEELING but an ACT OF THE WILL!"""""


And that is not God's Love., that is YOUR Self effort.
Problematic-you quote excerpts of what I have posted-hence total miscommunication.
You have a blessed day.
 
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