Should the meaning of Greek words affect the interpretation of the passages they are found in?

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Davy

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Even so, some passages the best Greek scholars|translators find difficult to translate, such as Daniel 9:27, which is why it has almost as many different readings as there are English versions of the Bible. 2 Peter 3:10 is definitely telling us that there will be a burning of the present heavens and earth and a destruction of the ungodly, but is Peter necessarily referring to the works of rocks (the earth) when he talks about ergon (works), and about the physical elements of the earth that is to be burned when he talks about soicheion?
Nothing difficult about understanding the Daniel 9:27 verse, SIMPLY because it is FURTHER COVERED in the Daniel 11 chapter about the acts of the "vile person". And it's about what Lord Jesus even quoted from Daniel in His Olivet discourse of SIGNS for the very end of the time of "great tribulation".

How can one come to know all this I just said? Through study by 'staying'... in all of God's written Word. This is why God's Word gives at least 2 or more Scripture witnesses for a prophecy or witnessed event. The key is to STOP listening to men's doctrines that try to steer us away... from those multiple Scripture witnesses that when all put together give us to understand the "strong meat" of the prophecy.
 

CadyandZoe

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No. Not a new section. Paul had just told them about the resurrection in the day of the LORD, and he wasn't so lacking that he did not know that the very first question in their minds would be, "When will this happen?", so he tells them. He's not changing the topic at all - and in the text itself in the oldest manuscripts + the Received Greek Text - there is no chapter division between what he had been saying and what he was closing his statement with, which was, to put in in plain English, "So now, as to the timing of when this will take place, you do not need me to write to you about that, because you already know that the Day of the LORD will come as a thief in the night."

You really are reading whatever you want to into the text.
But Paul clearly alerts the reader that he has started a new topic. I can't ignore that.
 

CadyandZoe

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The Lord returns in a day and hour, in final judgement (The End)

Matthew 24:50-51KJV
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Okay, but since the "Day of the Lord" is longer than a single day, it can't be the second coming of Christ.
 

Truth7t7

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Okay, but since the "Day of the Lord" is longer than a single day, it can't be the second coming of Christ.
(The Day Of The Lord) comes as a thief in sudden destruction, your claim its longer than a single day is "False", just as your doctrine in "Universalism" is "False", in that all will be redeemed, even Satan and the fallen angels

1 Thessalonians 5:2-3KJV
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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As above. We will have immortal bodies just like Adam had, not just like Christ has, because we do not have life in ourselves like Christ has, we are not immortal the way Christ is, who alone is immortal, but Adam's life was in Christ, his immortality was in Christ, but the creature is capable of dying, of becoming mortal, though God had given the creature immortality by breathing His own life into Adam. The creature is only immortal while he remains in the Vine. We do not have life in ourselves.
Again, you talk as if I'm saying we currently have immortal bodies. That's not what I'm saying at all. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on things at this point because you are making my head spin. I say that in jest and I'm not upset or trying to be contentious. I just can't understand your view about this at all and when that is the case, what is the point of discussing it any further, right?
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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You are wrong. We will not have bodies immortal in the same way Christ's is. Only Jesus has life in Himself. Only Christ (our Creator) is immortal:

"For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" John 5:26
Okay, you are starting to annoy me at this point, so it's time to wrap this up. You're not making any sense to me at all at this point, but we've had a good discussion before this. Let's just leave it at that and agree to disagree.

1 John 3:1 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Can you see "I Create" below, will you now triple down in your rebellion?
Triple down on my rebellion? What in the world? What is wrong with you? Did you forget to take your meds today?

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Using the same hyper-literal approach to interpreting scripture as you use to interpret Isaiah 65:17, do you read the following verse and conclude that since scripture says that anyone who is in Christ is a new creature, then that means you were annihilated at some point in the past and replaced with a new Truth7to7 person?

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Okay. You said this in response to my question of whether 2 Thess 1:10 is referring to the same thing as 1 Thess 4:14-17 or not.

Now, let's look at that verse again along with the verses that precede it.

2 Thessalonians 1:6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

So, you agree that "the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people" is the day described in 1 Thess 4:14-17. Look at 2 Thess 1:7-9 to see what else happens on that day. He destroys those "who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus".

That lines up with this:

1 Thess 5:1 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

So, what Paul taught in both 1 Thess 4:14-5:3 and 2 Thess 1:6-10 is that on the day Jesus returns, believers will be gathered and caught up to Him and then He will then bring down sudden and unexpected destruction on "those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus" to such a degree that "they will not escape.

See how I'm interpreting scripture with scripture here? That is something you have not yet learned how to do.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Can you see "I Create" below, will you also triple down in your rebellion?

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Are you afraid to address questions that you don't know how to answer?

I asked you what is your understanding of this verse:

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.

Do you believe the meek will only inherit the earth for a temporary amount of time? If so, then what this verse says is not very significant. But, if the meek will inherit the earth forever, that makes this verse very significant.

Are you afraid to address this? You seem to try to do anything you can to avoid addressing arguments that expose the holes in your beliefs. Do you think that goes unnoticed?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Let God Be True!

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
God is true and you are not. You just read everything hyper-literally without even thinking about the context or thinking about whether how you are interpreting a given verse is contradicting any other scripture or not.

Your flawed approach to interpreting this verse results in you having no choice but to conclude that the scripture regarding the meek inheriting the earth is talking about the meek only inheriting the earth temporarily until it is completely annihilated. So, you turn a verse (Matthew 5:5) that speaks of a great truth that we should all celebrate and look forward to into something rather meaningless.
 

CadyandZoe

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(The Day Of The Lord) comes as a thief in sudden destruction, your claim its longer than a single day is "False", just as your doctrine in "Universalism" is "False", in that all will be redeemed, even Satan and the fallen angels

1 Thessalonians 5:2-3KJV
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Yes, of course. It comes with sudden destruction, but the events associated with the Day of the Lord last for years. Jesus's second coming takes place toward the end.

Consider the book of Revelation. What passage describes the harvest of the saints? Does that take place before or after the moon is turned into blood?
 

CadyandZoe

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Okay. You said this in response to my question of whether 2 Thess 1:10 is referring to the same thing as 1 Thess 4:14-17 or not.

Now, let's look at that verse again along with the verses that precede it.

2 Thessalonians 1:6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

So, you agree that "the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people" is the day described in 1 Thess 4:14-17. Look at 2 Thess 1:7-9 to say what else happens on that day. He destroys those "who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus".

That lines up with this:

1 Thess 5:1 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

So, what Paul taught in both 1 Thess 4:14-5:3 and 2 Thess 1:6-10 is that on the day Jesus returns, believers will be gathered and caught up to Him and then He will then bring down sudden and unexpected destruction on "those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus" to such a degree that "they will not escape.

See how I'm interpreting scripture with scripture here? That is something you have not yet learned how to do.
I don't they line up.
 

Truth7t7

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Triple down on my rebellion? What in the world? What is wrong with you? Did you forget to take your meds today?
Let God Be True!

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
 
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Truth7t7

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Why did you not address what I said? Afraid?
1 Samuel 15:23a
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.

Let God Be True!

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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1 Samuel 15:23a
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Why did you quote this verse? Are you accusing me of witchcraft, sin and idolatry even though all I'm doing is disagreeing with YOU and not scripture? Are you equating your opinions with scripture and basically making yourself God?

Let God Be True!

Isaiah 65:17KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Is this verse saying we have been annihilated and replaced by new people?

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Why are you so afraid to address arguments that reveal holes in your own? The fact that you don't even attempt to do so says a lot about how you often just believe what you want to believe rather than what scripture actually teaches.
 

Zao is life

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Okay, you are starting to annoy me at this point, so it's time to wrap this up. You're not making any sense to me at all at this point, but we've had a good discussion before this. Let's just leave it at that and agree to disagree.

1 John 3:1 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
OK that's fine, we will wrap it up. I moved part of my post that's annoying you up to the top try to make it clearer if you ever want to refer back to it. I also took out the part where I'm telling you that you are wrong. Even though I do believe you are wrong (not completely wrong, but partially wrong, in a very important sense). I will wrap it up, but I will leave it for you below in case you ever want to refer back to it to try and understand what I'm saying.
In the resurrection we will have the immortality of Adam (the creature), which was in Christ (our Creator), not the immortality of Christ (our Creator) Himself, who alone has life in Himself. who alone is immortal:

"For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" John 5:26

-- He alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen. --- (1 Timothy 6:15-16, NETfree version).

"I am the First and the Last, and the Living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen. And I have the keys of hades and of death." Revelation 1:17-18.

Our life is in Christ, and in Him alone. The Spirit of God breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul. That's why we must be born of the Spirit in order to comprehend and experience the Kingdom of God. In the resurrection we will have the immortality of Adam, which was in Christ, not the immortality of Christ Himself, who alone has life in Himself. To believe that we are incapable of dying after we have regained the immortality of Adam through the resurrection, is based on not fully understanding the above, and this:​

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------​

".. you will most definitely die." (Genesis 2:17).

"You will NOT most definitely die. You will be like God" (who alone is immortal, who alone has life in Himself, and cannot die a second death). (Genesis 3:3-4).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

1. Death:

Mankind's first death is Adam's death. It came to all the children of Adam:

Through one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed on all men inasmuch as all sinned Romans 5:12

2. Resurrection:

Mankind both has already, and will yet experience one resurrection from death - Christ's resurrection, which takes place in Him just as much as death took place in Adam:

-- I am the Resurrection and the Life!
He who believes in Me,
though he die,
yet he shall live.
And whoever lives and believes in Me
shall never die -- John 11:25​

3. 2nd death:

The lake of fire IS the 2nd death:

And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hades delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works. And death and hades were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.

And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire. (Revelation 20:13-15).

No one can die a 2nd death before he has been resurrected, because no one gets back Adam's immortality (which is in Christ) that Adam had before he lost it and became mortal, and eternal life is in Christ. Therefore the bodies of resurrected saints will be just as immortal as Adam's body was before he sinned and became mortal. Adam was immortal before he sinned and began to die, but His immortality was not the same as Christ's (who is God), rather, Adam's eternal life|immortality that he had before he sinned and began to die, was in Christ.
 
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Truth7t7

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In the resurrection we will have the immortality of Adam (the creature), which was in Christ (our Creator), not the immortality of Christ (our Creator) Himself, who alone has life in Himself. who alone is immortal:
The believer will receive a resurrected immortal body just like Jesus

1 John 3:2KJV
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1 Corinthians 15:52-53KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
 

CadyandZoe

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What does this mean?
2Thessalonians 1:6ff doesn't line up with 1Thess 5:1. These two passages refer to two different and distinct events. 2Thessalonians speaks about the judgment of individuals; 1Thessalonians 5:1 speaks about the judgment of Israel as a nation.