A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.

[The Learner]

Considering that in our nearly 150 years of existence, we still believe the same, because we studied the scriptures and proved what we were taught. There are of course some things in regard to prophecy that we have had to tweak, but it's pretty much the same for over 100 years. So, we don't follow a man, like the Bereans of old did, we "received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so." (Acts 17:11)

And yet, all JW's MUST accept what is taught to them by the Governing Body. I won't bore you with all the quotes from your publications where the GB has stated they speak for God, and disagreeing with them is disagreeing with God. And you know as well as I do, that to disagree with the JW's is a disfellowshipping offense. So you really don't have a choice, you must obey these "very much flawed humans."


And as I've stated, we use everything at our disposal to reach people with the Good News, (TV, Radio, billboards, printed page. social media, internet). But the Churches job is not to convert the world, that is what the Kingdom is for. The preaching work is for a specific reason. Do you know what that reason is?


Guess what Jane? Here we are, dialoguing. So the door-to-door ministry is not the only way to reach people. I've lived in Indiana 7 years now, I've never had a JW knock on my door. In fact, I've never seen or met a JW in the seven years I've lived here. Just remember Jane, we can knock on all the doors in the world, we can shout from the rooftops and stand on corners, but remember, it is God who does the calling. And if someone doesn't respond, then they haven't been called. There are countless people out there who believe in Jesus, countless who have been tortured and have died for their faith. Countless who have a beautiful Christlike character, character that put me to shame, and a character I'm still working on building, but they haven't been called, or maybe they have, who am I to say? I can tell you this much ... when the smoke of Armageddon clears, there will stand countless scratching their heads wondering ... "but I thought..." "How is he ....?" "Wait-a-minute, you mean ...?"

The end doesn't come when you knock on that last door. It comes when the last feet members of the Body of Christ is beyond the veil, that is the Holy of Holies. And then the fun begins. And wherever my Heavenly Father deems fit to put me ... is more than I deserve.


Well, Bible Students don't have a Great Crowd to do our bidding. I guess, if we closed the door to heaven and began gathering a second class of Christians who in essence have no standing with God, because Jesus isn't their mediator, nor do they have a covenant relationship with. , So again I ask, what is the will of the Father Jane?

The same one the JW's tossed to the side all those years ago. You know the Studies in the Scriptures were subtitled "Keys to the Scriptures". But in 1927, the Society ceased publishing them. J.F. Rutherford, your true founder then began writing, book after book, booklets and articles, and each book he wrote contradicted the previous book he wrote all under the guise of NEW LIGHT, and 100 years later that light is stilling changing like a disco ball glistening in a dark room.

Are you part of Russell's International Bible Students?

 

[The Learner]

The governing body, to us, are “the faithful and discreet slave”, (Matt 24:45) whom Jesus appointed to “feed” his household of fellow slaves, “their food at the proper time”.

Matthew 24
Easy-to-Read Version
Jesus Warns About the Future
24 Jesus left the Temple area and was walking away. But his followers came to him to show him the Temple’s buildings. 2 He asked them, “Are you looking at these buildings? The fact is, they will be destroyed. Every stone will be thrown down to the ground. Not one stone will be left on another.”

3 Later, Jesus was sitting at a place on the Mount of Olives. The followers came to be alone with him. They said, “Tell us when these things will happen. And what will happen to prepare us for your coming and the end of time?”

4 Jesus answered, “Be careful! Don’t let anyone fool you. 5 Many people will come and use my name. They will say, ‘I am the Messiah.’ And they will fool many people. 6 You will hear about wars that are being fought. And you will hear stories about other wars beginning. But don’t be afraid. These things must happen before the end comes. 7 Nations will fight against other nations. Kingdoms will fight against other kingdoms. There will be times when there is no food for people to eat. And there will be earthquakes in different places. 8 These things are only the beginning of troubles, like the first pains of a woman giving birth.

9 “Then you will be arrested and handed over to be punished and killed. People all over the world will hate you because you believe in me. 10 During that time many believers will lose their faith. They will turn against each other and hate each other. 11 Many false prophets will come and cause many people to believe things that are wrong. 12 There will be so much more evil in the world that the love of most believers will grow cold. 13 But the one who remains faithful to the end will be saved. 14 And the Good News I have shared about God’s kingdom will be told throughout the world. It will be spread to every nation. Then the end will come.

15 “Daniel the prophet spoke about ‘the terrible thing that causes destruction.’[a] You will see this terrible thing standing in the holy place.” (You who read this should understand what it means.) 16 “The people in Judea at that time should run away to the mountains. 17 They should run away without wasting time to stop for anything. If they are on the roof of their house, they must not go down to get anything out of the house. 18 If they are in the field, they must not go back to get a coat.

19 “During that time it will be hard for women who are pregnant or have small babies! 20 Pray that it will not be winter or a Sabbath day when these things happen and you have to run away, 21 because it will be a time of great trouble. There will be more trouble than has ever happened since the beginning of the world. And nothing as bad as that will ever happen again.

22 “But God has decided to make that terrible time short. If it were not made short, no one would continue living. But God will make that time short to help the people he has chosen.

23 “Someone might say to you at that time, ‘Look, there is the Messiah!’ Or someone else might say, ‘There he is!’ But don’t believe them. 24 False messiahs and false prophets will come and do great miracles and wonders, trying to fool the people God has chosen, if that is possible. 25 Now I have warned you about this before it happens.

26 “Someone might tell you, ‘The Messiah is there in the desert!’ But don’t go into the desert to look for him. Someone else might say, ‘There is the Messiah in that room!’ But don’t believe it. 27 When the Son of Man comes, everyone will see him. It will be like lightning flashing in the sky that can be seen everywhere. 28 It’s like looking for a dead body: You will find it where the vultures are gathering above.

29 “Right after the trouble of those days, this will happen:

‘The sun will become dark,
and the moon will not give light.
The stars will fall from the sky,
and everything in the sky will be changed.’[c]

30 “Then there will be something in the sky that shows the Son of Man is coming. All the people of the world will cry. Everyone will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky. He will come with power and great glory. 31 He will use a loud trumpet to send his angels all around the earth. They will gather his chosen people from every part of the earth.

32 “The fig tree teaches us a lesson: When its branches become green and soft, and new leaves begin to grow, then you know that summer is very near. 33 In the same way, when you see all these things happening, you will know that the time[d] is very near, already present. 34 I assure you that all these things will happen while some of the people of this time are still living. 35 The whole world, earth and sky, will be destroyed, but my words will last forever.

Only God Knows When the Time Will Be
36 “No one knows when that day or time will be. The Son and the angels in heaven don’t know when it will be. Only the Father knows.

37 “When the Son of Man comes, it will be the same as what happened during Noah’s time. 38 In those days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving their children to be married right up to the day Noah entered the boat. 39 They knew nothing about what was happening until the flood came and destroyed them all.

“It will be the same when the Son of Man comes. 40 Two men will be working together in the field. One will be taken and the other will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding grain with a mill. One will be taken and the other will be left.

42 “So always be ready. You don’t know the day your Lord will come. 43 What would a homeowner do if he knew when a thief was coming? You know he would be ready and not let the thief break in. 44 So you also must be ready. The Son of Man will come at a time when you don’t expect him.

Good Servants and Bad Servants
45 “Who is the wise and trusted servant? The master trusts one servant to give the other servants their food at the right time. Who is the one the master trusts to do that work? 46 When the master comes and finds that servant doing the work he gave him, it will be a day of blessing for that servant. 47 I can tell you without a doubt, the master will choose that servant to take care of everything he owns.

48 “But what will happen if that servant is evil and thinks his master will not come back soon? 49 He will begin to beat the other servants. He will eat and drink with others who are drunk. 50 Then the master will come when the servant is not ready, at a time when the servant is not expecting him. 51 Then the master will punish that servant. He will send him away to be with the hypocrites, where people will cry and grind their teeth with pain.

If you spiritualize the text, you make our case for eternal torture. Likely, it is only talking about physical food from context.

 

[The Learner]

When the smoke of Armageddon clears, those who come out will be those who have obeyed the son in all things. By our choices we determine our own destiny.....Jehovah will not correct us or force the truth on us....acceptance has to come from our own hearts. He will then do the rest. (John 6:44, 65)
Ezekiel 3:17-19 is sobering....this is another facet of our responsibility as disciples of the Master.

Yes, we believe this too....’unless the days of the great tribulation were cut short, no flesh would be saved’ but the great crowd will come out of that tribulation as survivors (Rev 7:13-14) and the last of the elect will be there with Jesus as the world system under satan is finally destroyed, so that no trace will be left of the wickedness that has prevailed for so long under his influence. (1 John 5:19)

That is interesting....you haven’t identified the great crowd, which is something that happened when the “proper time” came to recognize who they were. Many were withholding from baptism because they did not have the conviction or calling to heaven, (Heb 3:1) so it was announced that their identity had been established in scripture....they are the support system for the elect as these ones leave the earthly scene to take up their heavenly assignments. Very few of Jehovah’s Witnesses are anointed ones now, as we would expect this close to the end. The majority are already in heaven ready to take over world rulership with their King leading the charge. (Daniel 2:44)

If the light on the pathway never got brighter as the day dawned, then we can only imagine some poking around in a darkness that has never lifted. (Prov 4:18)
We continue to be enlightened as the inevitable day approaches, not having been left behind with a dim candle and a truth that never allows new light to reveal new aspects of ongoing prophesy.

Russell was an enlightened man and his findings in company with other like-minded individuals in those early days were remarkable in laying a foundation for what was to come.....but he was never alone.....there has always been “a body” of Christ’s anointed. In the beginning all were of that class, but as time progressed and the identity of the “great crowd” was made known, it is very apparent that when the “sheep and the goats” are separated at the judgment, those who supported Christ’s “brothers” (his spirit anointed “joint heirs”) will be rewarded for their ongoing assistance.

“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right: ‘Come, you who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and you received me hospitably; 36 naked and you clothed me. I fell sick and you looked after me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’” (Matt 25:31-40)

There are two groups mentioned there.... Christ’s “brothers” and those who render assistance to them.
How have you not discerned the two groups? No new light....which means that you all got stuck in the past and have never progressed. I find that rather sad actually, because “faith follows the thing heard”...it comes from what we are led to believe.....so it’s not “what” we believe at the end of the day....but “who” we believe......isn’t it?

Try putting II Peter 1 into practice.,

 

[The Learner]

Your choice, but don't forget everlasting life is on the line for all. Satan has had 99% mislead ever since the fall in Eden. The only time maybe not was when Israel stood strong, but he got them to fall over and over. Even Solomon fell. He is the god of this system of things. Alls he has to do by transforming into an angel of light( him and his teachers) 2Cor 11:12-15) is get one to partake off the table of demons.1 Cor 10:21--and they will lose. Because God says-one CANNOT partake off his table if they partake off of that one. Yet billions are being mislead into trying both tables--Gods table counts 0 for them.

whom did satan tell the one percent truth to?

 

[The Learner]

rth

 

[Keiw]

No I believe the bible as it is written, not reinterpreted by an organization allegorizing the word to fit their toxic agenda.

Your best scenario is to learn all that Jesus actually teaches. His teachings in every translation on earth back the JW teachers, as does Israelite true God worship history--0 doubt in all creation. So where do you think that leaves the rest?

 

[Keiw]

whom did satan tell the one percent truth to?

Satan didnt. The one religion that listens to Jesus gets holy spirit to guide all truth to them. Satan is taking all he can to destruction.
In every translation on earth, the teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers, as does Israelite true God worship history. There is 0 doubt about that.

 

[RR144]

So what Jesus told you to do is unimportant? You are not out to "convert as many as we can before Armageddon"? (Ezek 3:17-19)
Even though the scriptural command is there in plain sight, you still see no responsibility to put in the legwork?
The command was to "search" for "deserving" or "worthy" ones and "teach them to observe all the things I have commanded you".....the word "commanded" means its not negotiable, not like a recommendation. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20)

Acts 5:42 reads "And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they kept right on teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ." All Christians adhere to the Gospel message that salvation comes only through Jesus. Who was it that Jesus was calling to hear him? Was it anyone and everyone or were his messages designed for just a few to respond to, with provisions made for everyone else later? Why did Jesus speak in parables? Why did he, for the most part, limit his teaching to just the Jews? What was the great commission to preach the Gospel to all nations all about? Was it to convert everyone or was it to draw out a comparatively few disciples from all nations?

Ok, so Jesus promised, “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.” (Matthew 24:14) Does this promise mean that now is the only time of salvation for all people? The common words ALL and EVERY are two of the most important words in the Bible. In Luke 2:10 the angel who announced the birth of Jesus said, “Behold I bring you good tidings of great joy which shall be to ALL people.” Verses 30 and 31 speak of salvation for “ALL people.” 1 Timothy 4:10 speaks of God as “the Saviour of ALL men.”

The simple logic of Jesus dying for ALL is found in 1 Corinthians 15:22: “As in Adam ALL die even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive.” Romans 5:18 shows that “by the offence of one [Adam] judgment came upon ALL men to condemnation: even so by the righteousness of one [Christ] the free gift came upon ALL men.” Adam sinned with the unborn race yet in his loins. Therefore, ALL were born in sin and shapen in iniquity (Psalm 51:5) and thus worthy of death. God knew that Adam, due to a lack of experience would disobey. 1 Peter 1:19,20, speaks of the blood of Christ as being foreordained for our redemption even before Adam was created. Since ALL were lost in Adam, it was necessary that Jesus “by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY man” (Hebrews 2:9).

Now John 1:7 speaks of Jesus as “the Light, that ALL men through him might believe.” Verse 9 says he is “the True Light, which lighteth EVERY man that cometh into the world.” How can this be? Countless millions died before the time of Jesus. They never saw the True Light! They never heard the name of Jesus. And since the death of Jesus, millions died never hearing of the only “name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). If you are a Bible-believing Christian, you know that no one is saved through ignorance but only by believing in Jesus as his or her saviour. This is a seeming contradiction. The answer is found in 1 Timothy 2:5,6, “. . .Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for ALL, to be testified in due time”-a plain statement that Jesus died for “ALL.” If Jesus died for “ALL,” why is it that ALL do not have the opportunity to hear this good news? The key of harmony is found in the phrase “due time.” The Greek word translated “time” is plural; i.e., times (Thayer’s Lexicon of the New Testament). The knowledge that Jesus is a ransom for ALL will be testified “in due times.” The due time for those God is calling to be of the Church is during the Christian Age. The due time for ALL other people to understand is during the 1,000-year reign of Christ.

Now is not the time for ALL to hear the name of Jesus. God is not trying to convert the world between the first and second advents. If He was, then He has obviously failed. For after nearly 2,000 years, less than one third of the world’s population even claims to be Christian. The fact is Jesus predicted only that the gospel would be a witness to the world, not that all would be converted before the end of the Age.

Mark 4:11,12, specifically states that God is not trying to convert the world now. Jesus said to his disciples, “Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without all these things are done in parables. That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.” Think about what these verses are saying.

If Jesus died for ALL, why has God arranged that many would not be able to understand the Bible and, therefore, not be converted and have their sins forgiven? The Bible is not written like a textbook system of logic. God purposely had the Bible written in parables and symbols, so that many would not be converted and have their sins forgiven. This is why there are over 250 Christian denominations with so many different interpretations of the Bible. God has not attempted to convert the world, but is only calling a “little flock” at this time. If man’s eternal destiny was dependent upon understanding the Bible now, our God of love (1 John 4:8) would have surely made the Bible plain and simple for all to understand.

Acts 15:14-17 reveals that “God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for His name [not to convert all]. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, after this I will return [Second Advent] and build again the tabernacle of David [set up the kingdom of God]… that the residue [REMAINDER] of men might seek after the Lord and ALL the Gentiles….” God’s work since the death of Jesus has not been to convert all humankind, but merely to take out or to call out a “people for his name.” In the Kingdom, all the REMAINDER of men, who are not of these called out ones, will have their opportunity to seek the Lord.

 

[RR144]

God has always provided shepherds for his people....."by their fruits" you will identify them.

True, these are the elders who shepherd the flock. They do not Lord it over the congregation. 1 Peter 5:2-3 tells us: “Tend the flock of God which is among you, exercising the oversight, not of constraint, but willingly, according to the will of God; nor yet for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; neither as lording it over the charge allotted to you, but making yourselves ensamples to the flock.”

“Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars” (Revelation 2:1-2).

While today we do not have apostles, we do have congregational elders, who not only serve their local congregations, but who from time to time are invited to serve other congregations and conventions. Their qualifications as elders are highlighted in 1 Tim. 3:1-7. They are to shepherd the flock that has been entrusted to them, by teaching them, encouraging them and preparing them for what the Lord describes as “wolves in sheep’s clothing.” – Mark 7:15

In our Revelation text, the Lord said, “thou hast tried them.” According to Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, the word “tried” is defined as: “to try, make trial of, test: for the purpose of ascertaining his quality.” Does that sound like we should just go along with what the elders say and teach? The Lord says you can either easily put them to the test or you can easily be deceived.​

Paul said, “Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ” (1 Corinthians 11:1). Paul said the leader is to follow Christ. Follow a man only as he follows Christ. We can’t do that unless we are testing and proving all things. It’s very biblical to do so.


“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). John pleaded with God’s beloved people to “try the spirits.” Why? Because there are “many” false prophets and false leaders. Often these deceivers were among God’s people. We must always test our leaders with God’s Word.​

Peter denied knowing Jesus three times. The apostles were constantly arguing over who among them was the greatest.
Judas betrayed the son of God with a kiss....meaning that when he was first chosen, he was not a bad person, but it says that "satan entered into him" because he loved money more than his master.

They weren't spirit begotten then. What SIGNIFICANT MISTAKES did the apostles make AFTER they were spirit-begotten?

We agree except where you mention Paul as a "replacement" for Judas.

Tell that to Paul, who until his dying day had to defend his Apostleship. The following comes from The Watchtower [https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1951925?q=did+paul+replace+judas?&p=doc]

On the night of his betrayal and arrest Jesus said to the eleven faithful apostles: “You did not choose me, but I chose you, and I appointed you.” (John 15:16, NW) The original twelve apostles were selected by direct choice and appointment by Jesus, not by the casting of lots, as in the case of Matthias. In seeking to fill the vacancy left by faithless Judas, Peter had in mind the fulfillment of Psalm 109:8, quoting: “Let a different man take his office of overseer.” But by casting lots to find one to “take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas deviated”, Peter and those with him were acting in advance of the Lord Jesus Christ and without any instruction from him. (Acts 1:20, 25, NW) They did not wait to “become clothed with power from on high”, to “be baptized in holy spirit not many days after this”, and hence this pre-Pentecostal selection of Matthias was not done under the guidance of the holy spirit.—Luke 24:49; Acts 1:5, NW.​

​

After the casting of lots no mention is made in the Scriptures of Matthias personally. True, Acts 1:26 (NW) says he was “reckoned along with the eleven apostles”; but it does not say he was reckoned as an apostle of Jesus Christ. Acts 6:2 and; 1 Corinthians 15:5 speak of “the twelve”, referring to the eleven apostles and Matthias, because Matthias and the eleven apostles were associated together as a committee of special servants in the congregation at Jerusalem; but it is noteworthy that in these cases the terms “twelve” and “apostles” are not used together.​

​

But that a replacement, and only one, for Judas was selected in fulfillment of Psalm 109:8 is made certain by Revelation 21:14, which refers to “the twelve apostles of the Lamb”. That replacement was chosen by Christ Jesus, just as were the original twelve apostles. Was not Paul specially chosen, Christ the spirit creature spectacularly manifesting himself to Paul? Concerning Paul Jesus said to Ananias: “This man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel.” (Acts 9:15, NW) Jesus sent Paul forth, and Paul was excelled by no other “sent-forth one” or apostle of Christ. He was not bragging, but was writing under inspiration when he wrote concerning himself: “Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through God’s will.” “Paul, an apostle, neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father.” “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus under command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus.” “I was appointed a preacher and an apostle.”—Rom. 1:1; 1 Cor. 1:1; 2 Cor. 1:1; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 1:1; Col. 1:1; 1 Tim. 1:1; 2:7; 2 Tim. 1:1, 11; Titus 1:1, NW.​

​

Nevertheless, Paul’s apostleship was disputed by some in his day, making it necessary for him to declare frequently his appointment from the Lord. He challenged his disputants: “Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are not you my work in the Lord? If I am not an apostle to others, I most certainly am to you, for you are the seal confirming my apostleship in relation to the Lord.” (1 Cor. 9:1, 2, NW) As Paul’s words here indicate, and Peter’s at Acts 1:22 suggest, it seemed that one of the tests of being an apostle of the Lamb was to have seen Christ after his resurrection. Hence in this same epistle Paul repeats: “But last of all he appeared also to me as if to one born prematurely. For I am the least of the apostles, and I am not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the congregation of God. But by God’s undeserved kindness I am what I am.” (1 Cor. 15:8-10, NW) Paul was known as the “apostle to the nations”. (Rom. 11:13, NW) He produced “the signs of an apostle”. (2 Cor. 12:12) He unquestionably became the twelfth apostle of the Lamb.​

Now that is rather comical....who on earth told you this? Those appointed to the position of an elder come on the recommendation of the other elders in the congregation....no one who does not know them well, and has observed their good conduct, in line with 1 Tim 3 has any say in the matter.

So why does it take a visiting overseer to make those decisions? Why can't the local elders say "Brother so-and-so, we are appointed you as elder, do you have an objections?" and then appoint him as such? Where in the scriptures does it say that anyone besides the congregation makes that decision?

 

[RR144]

What happened for the major part of the Christian era? You are NOT focused on anyone's door, yet Jesus told his disciples to go out and "search" for the "worthy ones" and to teach them.....and baptize them....and here you are saying that an internet discussion was all that was necessary.....that is NOT what Jesus told us to do. You've read it....you know that this kind of conversation is only very new compared to the almost 2,000 years that have elapsed since Jesus gave his command. Was no one supposed to preach in the meantime? The "wheat" have always been in the world, though overpowered somewhat by the "weeds".....they never went away.....some who were brave enough to speak up, lost their lives.

and where in the scriptures does Jesus tell his disciples, go, build Kingdom Halls and bethels and printing presses and publishing in the millions? Don't you get it. house to house preaching or preaching in the square as the Apostle Paul did was the norm in those days. It's all they had. 2,000 years later, we have technology that supersedes that. Didn't the Society have a radio station that broadcast 24/7? Didn't they use radio cars to preach their message up and down the streets? Don't they have a website to point people too? You guys don't even publish anymore, you have tablets that you use.

I think you forget that we are living in a judgment period like the people of Noah's day were. (Matt 24:3-39) Noah warned them of God's intentions but no one took him seriously, and when the rains came and the underground springs burst forth, they soon got the message.....but it was too late. This will not be a 'second' death for those who ignore the message today, but a first and permanent one. The "goats" are separated from the "sheep" (who will be granted life), then the goats are dispatched to the lake of fire, which is reserved for the devil and his cronies at the end of the thousand years of Kingdom rule. Only the sheep will inherit life....these are the "other sheep" which are not part of the “little flock” (the elect), but are still saved through the great tribulation. (Rev 7:13-14)

We agree, we're living in a judgment, where God through Jesus and his body members will judge this world's system. He will destroy them, BUT ,... BUT ... it is just the systems he will destroy, the systems that Satan uses to bind the minds, to deceive. People will die, there are always causalities in war. But Jesus is the ransom FOR ALL. And they will ALL live again. They will be taught in the Kingdom, where Satan and his minions will not be able to deceive. They will learn the Truth as to what God has done for them through Jesus, at the end of the 1,000 years, they will make a decision, those who want life eternal will get it, those who do not, will get death.

 

[RR144]

Are you part of Russell's International Bible Students?

Yes I am. I'm not one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm a Bible Student.

 

[RR144]

Jehovah's Witnesses do not need someone from the world to confirm our relationship with God...we do not work for anyone from the world, and our identity comes from God and is secure and firm. When a Jehovah's Witness posts on an internet forum, everyone knows who is ... what we believe, what our official site is, where we can be found, what we do, what we don't do, etc.

When anyone criticizes us, insults us and attacks us... who is that? Just a nobody who thinks he gains value when he attacks us, quixotic... If we're here it's to help you; none of you gives us anything. We know who we are, and you know who we are, but: who do you think you are?

and there you have it, "We have the Truth and you don't. We don't listen to what you tell us because we have the Truth and you don't, so why bother. Just be quiet and listen to what we have to tell you. We're not hear to listen or learn, were here to teach , because we and we alone have the Truth."

Is it any wonder why you're referred to as the "BORG"? because you've been assimilated.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Not everyone has the knowledge or calling to reach out to them. I have been doing this for over 50 years now. A new believer should spend their time learning true doctrines under wise teachers. 2 John 1:10 tells the lady in charge, not to let false teachers into the church so not to have people lead astray.

I am reminded of the Samaritan woman at the well. She had just met Jesus and brought a whole town to Jesus. I have been at this for 49 years, and I agree a believer should be discipled and know how to answer false doctrine, but every believer has the Holy Spirit and can bring people to confront their Savior.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your best scenario is to learn all that Jesus actually teaches. His teachings in every translation on earth back the JW teachers, as does Israelite true God worship history--0 doubt in all creation. So where do you think that leaves the rest?

In time if you do not repent and allow god to shine light into you, you will find out how false nearly all the Watchtower teachings are.

But the big one which keeps you from entering paradise is that you accept that Jesus did not physically rise from the dead, which keeps you from ever being saved! You will be like the folks in Matt. 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I can wait until the Great White Throne Judgment to know He physically rose from the dead, but if you wait until death, you are lost forever, and that is a great tragedy that is so unneeded.

 

[Keiw]

In time if you do not repent and allow god to shine light into you, you will find out how false nearly all the Watchtower teachings are.

But the big one which keeps you from entering paradise is that you accept that Jesus did not physically rise from the dead, which keeps you from ever being saved! You will be like the folks in Matt. 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I can wait until the Great White Throne Judgment to know He physically rose from the dead, but if you wait until death, you are lost forever, and that is a great tragedy that is so unneeded.

Jesus teaches-The Father( one who sent him= THE ONLY TRUE GOD( John 17:3)---What dont you understand about that? So by ones teaching God to be a trinity are actually calling Jesus a liar--We all must choose who we believe. All true followers believe Jesus.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I'm not so sure he was. Here is a short discussion on the subject. Here is a presentation on the subject:

Thank you, that was very informative, detailing how an ancient edifice, connected to an ancient culture came to be viewed as something it wasn’t. There is way more assumption than fact in that presentation. What does a pyramid have to do with God and his Christ? Do we see pyramids erected in Israel to bury their kings?
Egypt came into existence through the flood survivors' descendants, through Noah’s son Ham.
Ancient Egypt’s religion appears to have been mainly a matter of ceremonies and spells, designed to achieve certain desired results through the providence of one or more of their numerous gods, so not really any connection to the true God there, spiritually speaking.

By the time of the tower of Babel, earth’s inhabitants were again rebelling against God, and Nimrod was leading the way by disobeying God’s specific directive to spread out in the earth. He instead became the world’s first political leader and promoted the building of cities to make a great name for himself and the pagan culture he was leading. God responded by confusing their language, and forcing them to separate and quit building their tower of false impression.....supposedly "with its top in the heavens" so that if God were to flood the world again, they would have a place of escape. (legend has it).....so again mankind were alienated from their Creator.

It's your choice whether to watch it or not.

I just shook my head actually, because I had to ask why God would build such an edifice to show what the simple words of Genesis 3:15 had already demonstrated? This was God’s immediate response to Adam’s sin.....not the building of a gigantic monument that is connected to rebellious people and the worship of false deities....but a simple but profound prophesy that would reach way into the future....to our day.

The meaning of Genesis 3:15 was shrouded in mystery for many centuries until Messiah came and God’s spirit revealed who the ‘players’ were. The "heel" wound was struck in the first century with Christ’s death, but it was only temporarily disabling because God resurrected his son who would later inflict the fatal "head" wound that will come at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ and his elect. The devil and his hoards will then be consigned to the lake of fire where the "goats" will already be. (Matt 25:41)

And what is it you're searching and rescuing for?

The whole point of the preaching work is to....
1) To tell people about the “good news of the Kingdom” (Matt 24:14)....so what is that good news?....that finally mankind will have a government of God ruling over the whole earth, bringing about the blessings that God intended for the human race right at the beginning. Those chosen to rule mankind will all have lived as humans on earth (including Jesus) and will be compassionate and patient with sinners as Jesus was, bringing about an end to sin and death, and facilitating a complete reconciliation with Jehovah, their Creator.

2) Because we are again living in a judgment period, it is imperative that we warn the people of God’s impending day when all the people of the earth will stand before his appointed judge. We have to give them the message because their lives are at stake, and we owe them the truth of God’s word in a world where it has been lost in the confusion of Christendom’s many false doctrines. The "weeds" that Jesus said would be "sown by the devil" would envelop those who were weak in faith and lead them off into many different directions......following the "doctrines of men". (Matt 15:7-9)

This responsibility is so great that God indicated to his prophet Ezekiel....

“Son of man, I have appointed you as a watchman to the house of Israel; and when you hear a word from my mouth, you must warn them from me. 18 When I say to someone wicked, ‘You will surely die,’ but you do not warn him, and you fail to speak in order to warn the wicked one to turn from his wicked course so that he may stay alive, he will die for his error because he is wicked, but I will ask his blood back from you.” (Ezekiel 3:17-18)

We are under obligation to these people to warn them and to help them to change their ways. If they refuse to listen and to come to God in repentance, then they will never be able to say..."no one told me"....and we will never be able to say "I didn't warn them". (Matt 24:37-39)

There are only two categories of people who will perish at the judgment.....
2 Thess 1:6-10...
"This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you."

So those who "do not know God" because they don't want to know him....and those who know, but "do not obey" the teachings of his Christ because they don't think it is necessary to carry out ALL that he taught and commanded.....(just the convenient things will do)....."everlasting destruction" is what they can expect.....but "the witness" given to them was to form the basis of their judgment.

Who is providing that global witness? (Rom 10:14-15; Matt 24:14) Who are calling on people all over the world to offer them the good news that soon this ugly world of wicked mankind will be eliminated from existence, to make way for the "meek" to "inherit the earth" under the rulership of God's Kingdom? Can it be from a people about whose existence, hardly anything is known?

The light on the path has not brightened for you guys (Prov 4:18)....as far as I can see, you are stuck with old, outdated understanding and little knowledge of your real obligations toward others.

 

[Aunty Jane]

But the big one which keeps you from entering paradise is that you accept that Jesus did not physically rise from the dead, which keeps you from ever being saved!

What gives you the idea that we do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead? Is it the word "physically"...and by that do you mean in the flesh? Is that what Peter said? Did Jesus rise physically from the dead as Lazarus had done?
"For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit." (1 Peter 3:18)

A very important point was made by the apostle Paul....
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God"....flesh and blood, IOW, if mortal creatures that were designed to live on Earth, cannot inherit the heavenly Kingdom, then Jesus did not rise in the flesh. He rose as Peter said..."in the spirit"....as a spirit he could return to heaven in the form he had before coming to fulfill his mission on earth.

You will be like the folks in Matt. 7:

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Indeed those folks who fail to "do the will of the Father" will be rejected, even though they are so certain of their standing with God, prophesying, casting demons and doing wonderful works, all in Jesus' name....and yet Jesus says, "I never knew you"...."never" means "not ever".....so not for a single day has Jesus ever known these "workers of iniquity".

I can wait until the Great White Throne Judgment to know He physically rose from the dead, but if you wait until death, you are lost forever, and that is a great tragedy that is so unneeded.

He didn't physically rise from the dead.....If flesh and blood cannot go to heaven, show me where it says this....?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What gives you the idea that we do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead? Is it the word "physically"...and by that do you mean in the flesh? Is that what Peter said? Did Jesus rise physically from the dead as Lazarus had done?
"For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit." (1 Peter 3:18)

If Jesus did not rise on teh body He died in, you are yet in your sins. But Jesus did rise! The very word resurrection means just that!

And 1 Peter 3:18 should read "by" the spirit for that is consistent with the rest of the NT Epistles!

What gives you the idea that we do not believe that Jesus rose from the dead? Is it the word "physically"...and by that do you mean in the flesh? Is that what Peter said? Did Jesus rise physically from the dead as Lazarus had done?

Jesus did not die and invisible spirit creature so He cannot "ana-stasis" as an invisible spirit creature. ANASTASIS means a standing AGAIN. Jesus did not stand the first time as an invisible spirit creature.

I know the WT has declared they have the right to reveal new light any time and you cannot question it, but Peter said this about those who through their philosophy reinterpret the plain meaning of Scripture:

2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus teaches-The Father( one who sent him= THE ONLY TRUE GOD( John 17:3)---What dont you understand about that? So by ones teaching God to be a trinity are actually calling Jesus a liar--We all must choose who we believe. All true followers believe Jesus.

Not at all! If The Father is the only true god- then Jesus has to be a false God, not that Watchtower garbage that says He is a reflection of the true.

God is both an essence (like humanity is the essence of people) As well as a person. The Father is the God who is above all including Jesus as a person. However, Jesus is equally divine as His Father or equally god as His Father.

Equal in essence but subordinate in position!

 

[Wrangler]

However, Jesus is equally divine as His Father or equally god as His Father.

Yet not one verse says this.