The Son of Man returns with and for his people

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
5,063
674
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
@Timtofly by chance have you familirised yourself with the many OT prophecies concerning the future of natural Israel? Or have you chosen to spiritualise them in favour of spiritual Israel?

Let me ask you this...has Jeremiah 3:15 been fulfilled? And how can we know for certain this is speaking of a work, post second coming?

Read that section very carefully Tim!

F2F
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
5,063
674
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
The common Church teaching of a Jewish redemption, is wrong and made only to support the false 'rapture to heaven' theory.
Maybe we could start a new thread proving Jewish redemption?
The Bible doesnt teach Heaven going so no problem with the last part of your comment!
However, the Bible has plenty to say about the Jews redemption. Happy to show you anytime!
F2F
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,761
1,930
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Maybe we could start a new thread proving Jewish redemption?
The Bible doesnt teach Heaven going so no problem with the last part of your comment!
However, the Bible has plenty to say about the Jews redemption. Happy to show you anytime!
F2F
How does God identify the Jews that will be redeemed?

1. Religion
2. DNA
3. Culture
4. Community

Something else?

With supporting Scripture, of course.
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
5,063
674
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
How does God identify the Jews that will be redeemed?

1. Religion
2. DNA
3. Culture
4. Community

Something else?

With supporting Scripture, of course.
It sounds miracluous doesnt it?
The return of Christ will bring many activities in the Earth - saving the "Tents of Judah first" is one of them.
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
5,063
674
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
How does God identify the Jews that will be redeemed?

1. Religion
2. DNA
3. Culture
4. Community

Something else?

With supporting Scripture, of course.
To anwser you question I'm not certain there is a verse which tells us how Christ will determine the tribes. Do you have anything in mind?
 

covenantee

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2022
4,761
1,930
113
73
Canada
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Salvation is of the Jews afterall.
So the Jews have not had to wait for the New Covenant.

It's been available to them since Calvary.

The vast multitude of Jews who have received Christ since Calvary have received His New Covenant.

As have those of the whole world who have received Christ since Calvary.
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
5,063
674
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
So the Jews have not had to wait for the New Covenant.

It's been available to them since Calvary.

The vast multitude of Jews who have received Christ since Calvary have received His New Covenant.

As have those of the whole world who have received Christ since Calvary.
Yep, if you know Yahweh He will not leave them like they have of Him. The consuming fire is coming.
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
5,063
674
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
So the Jews have not had to wait for the New Covenant.

It's been available to them since Calvary.

The vast multitude of Jews who have received Christ since Calvary have received His New Covenant.

As have those of the whole world who have received Christ since Calvary.
I get what you are driving at, I do.

Speak to me of the unfinished work of Elijah? Turning the heart of the fathers to the children and the children to the fathers. Also, for the 12 disciples to rule over the 12 tribes we must see firstly, Israel make Jesus their King, and secondly the Kingdom of God on earth must begin with Israel! No other way...for all the earth will become Israel eventually.

If you are a Christian who believes the Son of Man is returning just for the Saints, we are sadly mistaken. Our work is going to be huge!

Jer 3:15 And I (Yahweh) will give you (Israel) pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

A work for the righteous is to teach Israel the New Covenant by helping them write it on their hearts as it is in us.

Do you know how you can prove Jeremiah 3 is later day prophecy?

Have a read and let me know!

F2F

"according to My Heart"...Just love that!
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
4,056
787
113
61
Atlanta,Ga
Why is it, whenever I show the right understanding to a verse, 9 out of 10 times they run to the Revelation to try and force a preconceived point? It's a highly symbolic chapter and this thread / OP isnt about the Historial significance of Rev 6 (while I'd like to show you I've got too much going on in the forum at the moment sorry).

If you think the alter is literal you would be wrong.
If you think this is talking about an immaterial immortal divine essense wafting around under altars you would be absolutely wrong
Ecclesiastes 12:6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern."


The "cistern" is the clay flesh body that our soul lives in. The cistern is built to hold the water or life that is within the flesh body, but once that bowl is broken the water or life leaks out of it, just as water leaks out of this flesh body. The "silver cord" is what holds your soul and the spirit together with the flesh body. We can call it the process of thought, which is the intellect of the mind, or soul. When one is brain dead, there is no electrical impulse within the brain, and mankind is considered dead, even though the physical body may still be pumping blood. Life support systems are generally discontinued in most cases.

When that silver cord parts, and the heavenly Father allows it to happen, and this flesh body becomes biologically dead, the very inner man departs for this physical body, and returns to the Father. This decaying body will never be used again, ever. For the soul has entered into its new incorruptible body.


Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."


Then when? After the silver cord breaks, the mind is brain dead, and the body loses its life. Then shall the body "dust" return to the earth as it was, before it was formed into food, and entered your mouth as food to make your flesh body healthy.

The spirit is the intellect of the soul, that gives the soul its identity. This is not complicated. When the body dies, and goes to the grave, the physical body will never have a use again, for the soul has returned to the Father, to God who created it in the first place. Because this is a promise of God, it should be what all Christians look forward to all the days of their lives. That is the day that we will be with the Father and Jesus Christ is heaven, not at some distant time in the future.

 

Keraz

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,263
938
113
82
Thames, New Zealand
www.logostelos.info
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
The bringing of the Jews into the New Covenant
There will be no general Jewish redemption. Only those few Jews who have accepted Jesus now will be part of the new Israel.
Paul could not be clearer: Of Israel, [the Jewish peoples] only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

As for starting a new thread on whether there will be a Jewish redemption or not, - until you show understanding of the separation between the House of Judah and the House of Israel, the 10 Northern tribes and their continued separation, then discussion is impossible.
 
Last edited:

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,079
1,236
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Okay to everything you just said ,but you wrong.
So at this so called rapture you all going to heaven in flesh bodies ?

No. Scripture says there is bodily change before the people are raptured. The destination is not heaven (where God is) but is to the clouds of the Earth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keraz

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
5,063
674
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
There will be no general Jewish redemption. Only those few Jews who have accepted Jesus now will be part of the new Israel.
Paul could not be clearer: Of Israel, [the Jewish peoples] only a remnant will be saved. Romans 9:27

As for starting a new thread on whether there will be a Jewish redemption or not, - until you show understanding of the separation between the House of Judah and the House of Israel, the 10 Northern tribes and their continued separation, then discussion is impossible.
Keraz, do you have OT prophecies you tend to explain away, or are you open to their interpretation? Take your point re the separation.

"And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand" Ezek 37:17

Been and gone? Yet to be fulfilled? Done away with in Spiritual Israel?

F2F
 

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
8,627
592
113
Mount Morris
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So this verse is teaching that in our current state where sin has dominion, we groan and are burdened by mortality and the weakness of the flesh. Future tense "when we will be clothed" to mean the putting on of immortality, post resurection and judgement! We shall then have this Heavenly Dwelling i.e Divine Nature!

Till then dust you are and dust you will return!
Well since that moment was the Cross, that was when all souls could receive a physical body. You can wait for your body, or not, as you are not the potter, just the clay.

I was never dust. I am not the body, but the soul.

Did humans start with the body or the soul:

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
 

face2face

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2015
5,063
674
113
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
"a living breathing creature"
Same as the animals!

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity Eccl 3

In terms of our physical makeup our bodies are precisely the same - your quote in Genesis confirms this as do many Scriptures.

Our ability to reason is the "likeness" made and that's it!

A soul that sins dies!

F2F
 

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2020
8,627
592
113
Mount Morris
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"a living breathing creature"
Same as the animals!

For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity Eccl 3

In terms of our physical makeup our bodies are precisely the same - your quote in Genesis confirms this as do many Scriptures.

Our ability to reason is the "likeness" made and that's it!

A soul that sins dies!

F2F
You still don't get it. You have something, but not the truth. Especially since you keep insisting on the wrong application of Scripture.