DECONSTRUCTION - How far is too far?

[quietthinker]

Adam does not "represent" the race. When God created Adam, God created Humanity. He made one man, and in that man was all the men who would come from him.

Think along the lines of, Levi was in the loins of Abraham paying tithes to Melchizedek. Adam was the race of Humanity. We were all in Adam. And when we come to faith, and God gives us rebirth, we are moved out of Adam, into Christ.

Much love!

I think you are too close to the trees marks. Paul is standing back and drawing a parallel of sorts with Adam and Jesus.
In Adam all are lost, In Jesus all are a new creation. This is not a subjective perspective. He is not talking about our personal experience. He is talking about how God views humanity.

 

[face2face]

I think you are too close to the trees marks. Paul is standing back and drawing a parallel of sorts with Adam and Jesus.
In Adam all are lost, In Jesus all are a new creation. This is not a subjective perspective. He is not talking about our personal experience. He is talking about how God views humanity.

Ah, so you also hold this strange view - good to know.

 

[marks]

I think you are too close to the trees marks.

We all have our opinions of other people, and some feel free to share their opinions. I tend to see that more often when there are disagreements.

I like to pay close attention to the words of God, if that's what you mean. I think it's a good thing.

Much love!

 

[St. SteVen]

Unfortunately St. SteVen you will continue to keep coming up against the qualifier.

Only the responsible are judged and saved/rejected.

What do you make of this?

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[St. SteVen]

I don't say this to be condescending, but when you post a Scripture do you really think about what is being conveyed? - or do you approach it with your own ideas of what you think it means?

Verse 19 is super clear, that not all obey the one man and not all will be made righteous and be saved.

It might be a comprehension issue - not ,sure but from where I sit its super clear!

We are both approaching this with preconceptions.
You just assume that your preconception is right and mine is wrong. Why?

 

[face2face]

We are both approaching this with preconceptions.
You just assume that your preconception is right and mine is wrong. Why?

Because if you go back to the verses you posted, you highlighted aspects of the text without considering the whole text. What's also interesting is you are shown the correct interpretation and rather staying with the text you jump to the next passage.

I've come across this style of conversing many times and ultimately its always the same; one is being shown "what is true" but never coming to a knowledge of truth.

F2F

 

[face2face]

What do you make of this?

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

So who will be judged that is the question?

Verse 28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Well done! you have taken us back to 1 Corinthians 2 (full circle so to speak)

Those who welcome the circumcision in heart are judged/saved or rejected.

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

Ah, so you also hold this strange view - good to know.

The Jews also thought Paul's perspective was strange They also thought a dead Messiah didn't add up......anyway, we believe that Jesus died for sinners (humanity) Was he not also resurrected for humanity?

We killed him, God raised him from the dead. God did something in Jesus unprecedented in human thinking, ....and in Pauls language, '......but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,...10but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 2 Timothy 1:9-10

It is God's perspective, not our subjective one. Paul now tells the world of God's perspective. That does not mean that all want it nor will it become their subjective reality if they are not interested.
We who believe hold this reality by faith. We believe it because through Paul this is what God said he has done.

 

[face2face]

We are both approaching this with preconceptions.

No, I think you are wrong here (said respectfully) - one of us is approaching the Word with misconceptions while the other is reading the Word and allowing it to teach.

There is a big difference.

F2F

 

[face2face]

The Jews also thought Paul's perspective was strange They also thought a dead Messiah didn't add up......anyway, we believe that Jesus died for sinners (humanity) Was he not also resurrected for humanity?

We killed him, God raised him from the dead. God did something in Jesus unprecedented in human thinking, ....and in Pauls language, '......but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,...10but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 2 Timothy 1:9-10

It is God's perspective, not our subjective one. Paul now tells the world of God's perspective. That does not mean that all want it nor will it become their subjective reality if they are not interested.
We who believe hold this reality by faith. We believe it because through Paul this is what God said he has done.

True, though Paul had the Holy Spirit and held truth, so its a rather poor example.
But it was a bold move to liken yourself to Paul.
F2F

 

[quietthinker]

I like to pay close attention to the words of God, if that's what you mean. I think it's a good thing.

I think we all want to understand God's perspective. No doubt, paying close attention is required.....without it, we miss it and hear what is not being communicated.

 

[ScottA]

This is somewhat of a follow-up to my previous topic from June 23, 2023:

Is there a cure for my religious upbringing? - other than atheism, I mean.

Hello deconstruction. Atheism, is the obvious over-reaction to escaping a religious upbringing. Study on this issue shows people going in many different directions both toward and away from religion. This video outlines the frustration involved in deconstruction. Let's discuss.

www.christianityboard.com

Here's another video that talks specifically about the process of deconstruction that Sara Martin went through.

The question is: Deconstruction; how far is too far?
- Should we NEVER question our faith?
- Are reasonable questions with biblical answers okay?
- Is it okay to ask the really tough questions?
- Are there questions that would offend our brothers and sisters of the faith?
- Should we be concerned about easily offend folks when we need answers?
- What sort of questions are out-of-bounds for a Christian to ask?
- Should a Christian pull away from church to seek answers?
- Should a Christian leave church all together if they can no longer cope?

Let's discuss.

This is a great topic that should indeed be seriously looked at--objectively.

The reason to look at this topic and ask these types of questions is that it is a biblical fact that "there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies" 2 Peter 2:1. In addition to Peter, Paul also warned that a "lie" would be believed and cause "strong delusion" and great apostacy. These were warnings to the church of what would occur--in the church, which John said would not just be in the future or in the last of the last days, but "the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world" 1 John 4:3--beginning 2,000 years ago!

With such great warning and prophecy of the certainty of false doctrine on a grand scale throughout church history--only a fool would think that what they have been taught is "the real truth."

 

[face2face]

So who will be judged that is the question?

Verse 28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Well done! you have taken us back to 1 Corinthians 2 (full circle so to speak)

Those who welcome the circumcision in heart are judged/saved or rejected.

F2F

@St. SteVen @quietthinker

You might have missed this but to make the point more fully felt, consider this.

I'm not sure if you both are men? Maybe you are, I've been caught out here before assuming a man to be a woman, so I wont make that mistake again. Regardless, I'm sure you both understand the act of physical circumcision?

What of circumcision of the heart?
For those who go there, does it hurt?
What is cut away?
Why?

Few go there and even fewer do so!

Now, would you believe God is going to give salvation to those who dont?

If you both are ignorant to what circumcision really means, try the physical! It's nothing compared to the spiritual cutting away of the flesh!

Maybe you both can change tact and begin to immerse yourself in the Word of God, to the point it hurts.

F2F

 

[quietthinker]

I'm not sure if you both are men? Maybe you are, I've been caught out here before assuming a man to be a woman, so I wont make that mistake again.

Oh dear F2F, respectfully, if you haven't worked that out while interacting and in the present how will you work out that which was recorded in a previous millennium from a different culture and language?

 

[amigo de christo]

Not all are in Christ, and those who are not, are not made alive.

Much love!

SPOT ON RIGHT MY FRIEND . SO i say it again . SPOT ON RIGHT MYFRIEND .

 

[amigo de christo]

Adam does not "represent" the race. When God created Adam, God created Humanity. He made one man, and in that man was all the men who would come from him.

Think along the lines of, Levi was in the loins of Abraham paying tithes to Melchizedek. Adam was the race of Humanity. We were all in Adam. And when we come to faith, and God gives us rebirth, we are moved out of Adam, into Christ.

Much love!

Thats right my friend . YOU POINT TO CHRIST JESUS TILL the last breath . HE is our hope and our salvation .

 

[face2face]

Oh dear F2F, respectfully, if you haven't worked that out while interacting and in the present how will you work out that which was recorded in a previous millennium from a different culture and language?

Easy target
Weak!
F2F

 

[quietthinker]

Easy target
Weak!
F2F

??

 

[St. SteVen]

So who will be judged that is the question?

Everyone.
But it might depend on your definition of judgment.
Most see it as a pronouncement of punishment for being human.

The wood, hay, and stubble scripture is more what I see.
(remember, the whole thing can burn up, but the person is still saved)

I see an evaluation for reward and correction. A restored soul.

Mark 9:49 NIV
Everyone will be salted with fire.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 NIV
For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

 

[St. SteVen]

No, I think you are wrong here (said respectfully) - one of us is approaching the Word with misconceptions while the other is reading the Word and allowing it to teach.

There is a big difference.

That's not fair to say.
We all have preconceptions. Where did you get yours?
I was trying to disprove UR when this scripture spoke to me.
Why does it say, "not only for ours"?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.