DECONSTRUCTION - How far is too far?

[St. SteVen]

What of circumcision of the heart?
For those who go there, does it hurt?
What is cut away?
Why?

Good grief.
Pretty sure it is a symbol of sanctification.
(being set apart in this present world - as the Israelites were)
John chapter 15 tells us of God's pruning the vines. Better example?

And you shouldn't assume that we are biblically illiterate
just because we happen to disagree with you.
THAT'S pretty insulting.

@quietthinker

 

[St. SteVen]

The only thing that one can do really - is stop having faith.

 

[St. SteVen]

DECONSTRUCTION is about re-evaluating our religious upbringing.
Long before this term emerged, Catholics were converting to Protestantism, and vice versa.
In fact, a person coming to Christ in this life deconstructs from their previous life.
DECONSTRUCTION is not the enemy, except to those who uphold tribalism loyalties.

 

[face2face]

Good grief.
Pretty sure it is a symbol of sanctification.
(being set apart in this present world - as the Israelites were)
John chapter 15 tells us of God's pruning the vines. Better example?

And you shouldn't assume that we are biblically illiterate
just because we happen to disagree with you.
THAT'S pretty insulting.

@quietthinker

Pretty sure or sure?
So you believe those who aren't circumcised of heart can still be saved?
You're proving to be a tricky one to get a straight answer from!
Quiet went for an easy target and you appear to avoid everything.
F2F

 

[CadyandZoe]

DECONSTRUCTION is about re-evaluating our religious upbringing.
Long before this term emerged, Catholics were converting to Protestantism, and vice versa.
In fact, a person coming to Christ in this life deconstructs from their previous life.
DECONSTRUCTION is not the enemy, except to those who uphold tribalism loyalties.

smoke and mirrors.

 

[amigo de christo]

smoke and mirrors.

very deceptive is deconstruction . It comes to pull folks away from BIBLICAL TRUTH , from that GOD
and into an angeda by he who desired and desires to be AS GOD . Deconstruction is total bad news . Yes indeed .

 

[face2face]

DECONSTRUCTION is about re-evaluating our religious upbringing.
Long before this term emerged, Catholics were converting to Protestantism, and vice versa.
In fact, a person coming to Christ in this life deconstructs from their previous life.
DECONSTRUCTION is not the enemy, except to those who uphold tribalism loyalties.

I endorse deconstruction especially if it’s approached with Paul's mindset of "proving all things!" Traditions, customs and man-made teachings should all be put through this rigorous approach.

Our exchange is one such example. You believe in a form of universalism which I believe the Bible in no way teaches and while this has been proven to you on a couple of occasions, real change in belief will only happen when you take your own views above and apply them to "proving all things", only then will you be convinced in your own mind that you have the mind of Christ.

If you do verse 21 of 1 Thess 5, this will cause you to do verse 22, and God will carry out verse 23!

Verse 22 cannot happen without verse 21 and verse 23 cannot happen without verse's 21 & 22.

To say otherwise would be foolish.

F2F

 

[CadyandZoe]

I endorse deconstruction especially if it’s approached with Paul's mindset of "proving all things!" Traditions, customs and man-made teachings should all be put through this rigorous approach.

Our exchange is one such example. You believe in a form of universalism which I believe the Bible in no way teaches and while this has been proven to you on a couple of occasions, real change in belief will only happen when you take your own views above and apply them to "proving all things", only then will you be convinced in your own mind that you have the mind of Christ.

If you do verse 21 of 1 Thess 5, this will cause you to do verse 22, and God will carry out verse 23!

Verse 22 cannot happen without verse 21 and verse 23 cannot happen without verse's 21 & 22.

To say otherwise would be foolish.

F2F

He can't get off the starting blocks because he has decided that the Bible contains errors. As a consequence, he has given himself permission to worship a God of his imagination, or as Homer Simson said, "God is my favorite fictional character."

 

[Lambano]

He can't get off the starting blocks because he has decided that the Bible contains errors. As a consequence, he has given himself permission to worship a God of his imagination, or as Homer Simson said, "God is my favorite fictional character."

Is our faith the Bible's inerrancy? Or in Jesus Christ, to whom the Bible points?

Think about it. If you saw one contradiction in the Bible, say, Matthew's and Luke's conflicting accounts about the demise of Judas Iscariot, would you stop trusting Jesus to save you? I don't think you would.

And please, don't invent a non-biblical scenario about breaking ropes and splattering bodies. That just begs the question of why it's necessary to add something to the Bible in order to trust Jesus Christ.

 

[Lambano]

Is our faith the Bible's inerrancy? Or in Jesus Christ, to whom the Bible points?

Think about it. If you saw one contradiction in the Bible, say, Matthew's and Luke's conflicting accounts about the demise of Judas Iscariot, would you stop trusting Jesus to save you? I don't think you would.

And please, don't invent a non-biblical scenario about breaking ropes and splattering bodies. That just begs the question of why it's necessary to add something to the Bible in order to trust Jesus Christ.

Just a little post-script: I've heard some testimonies from those who lost their faith, and one of the reasons is because Evangelicalism has hitched its wagon to the Inerrancy principle. The logical corollary is that if there is one contradiction or factual mistake or even something that doesn't make sense, the whole edifice crumbles into dust. In my own deconstruction, I learned to differentiate the difference between an intellectual belief system and trust in a Person.

 

[MatthewG]

Never was much of a fan of sting, thank you for sharing steven.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Is our faith the Bible's inerrancy? Or in Jesus Christ, to whom the Bible points?

Can't have one without the other. If the Bible is not without errors, then I can claim that any idea with which I disagree must be an error.

Think about it. If you saw one contradiction in the Bible, say, Matthew's and Luke's conflicting accounts about the demise of Judas Iscariot, would you stop trusting Jesus to save you? I don't think you would.

Maybe. It depends. If my faith depends on a gospel message that is shown to be unreliable, on what basis does my faith persevere when under trial?

And please, don't invent a non-biblical scenario about breaking ropes and splattering bodies. That just begs the question of why it's necessary to add something to the Bible in order to trust Jesus Christ.

I don't know what you mean, but okay, I won't.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Just a little post-script: I've heard some testimonies from those who lost their faith, and one of the reasons is because Evangelicalism has hitched its wagon to the Inerrancy principle.

I doubt that. I mean, perhaps that is the rationalization they offer, but human beings have a great capacity for rationalization.

The logical corollary is that if there is one contradiction or factual mistake or even something that doesn't make sense, the whole edifice crumbles into dust.

That is correct. Consider the consequences of admitting that the Bible contains an error. Skeptics and Bible students alike will point to that error and say, "Well, if the Bible can't get THAT right, then what else is wrong?"

In my own deconstruction, I learned to differentiate the difference between an intellectual belief system and trust in a Person.

I get it. You want to pledge your loyalty to Jesus Christ. We all do. But you should realize that your comparison doesn't work. There are NO points of comparison between a belief system and trust in a person. In other words, the two concepts are so unalike, differentiation is not only unnecessary, it's impossible.

Secondly and just as important, Jesus gave us his teaching and we follow him. Necessarily then, our faith has content -- a set of truth claims that must be evaluated, which is a mental process. Knowledge, according to the apostles is a fundamental aspect of the faith and a blessing of God.

Deconstructionists are not concerned with learning knowledge or wisdom from the apostles and prophets. Deconstructionists are like the original rationalists who sat around in their ivory towers imagining what God must be like. Reality is what imagine it is. Instead of going out to see the world for what is actually is, rationalists ask, "If I were to create a universe, what would it look like?"

Deconstruction is nothing more than rationalism. If I were to imagine a savior, what would he look like?

 

[amigo de christo]

He can't get off the starting blocks because he has decided that the Bible contains errors. As a consequence, he has given himself permission to worship a God of his imagination, or as Homer Simson said, "God is my favorite fictional character."

The reason folks are falling prey to a lie is due to they wont do ONE THING .
See the lies come in with partial truths blended in amongst it .
Example . deconstruction tries to imply a partial truth by saying its against the denominational teachings of men
that caused divisions . BUT IT , ITSELF is creating nothing more than the ulitimate false path way .
IT cometh to remove not just traditions of men gone wrong , BUT THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH of that bible .
IF you examined every single denomination amonsgst even christendome
you would see they do have partial truths and also errors . Sorry if that offends but its true .
Now some are much worse than others , no doubt .
But what false ones have done through all ages
is nothing different then what the serpent did at the tree . Even the serpent said ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil .
And man indeed did know good and evil . GOD SAID THIS HIMSELF .
BUT it introduces lies and a twisted persepective which , causes one to DISOBEY GOD , to not TRUST IN GOD
but rather what IT TEACHES . example . GOD had said YE SHALL SURELY DIE
the serpent had said YE shall not surely die . ONLY ONE OF THEM was right
and eve and adam chose to beleive the WRONG one .
SO back to the topic of what i said . THEY WONT DO ONE THING .
IF we all did this ONE THING , things could have been so much simplier and so much better off would we be .
BUT this one thing i speak of , DECONSTRUCTION IS DEAD SET AGAINST .
What is this thing i speak of , what is the truth i bring . ITS TIME TO GET OFF our rumps AND GET BACK IN THE BIBLE
FOR OURSELVES .
IF i had my way i would stand before the entire world and say this . GET THE HECK OUT of your denominations
AND GET the HECK back in the BIBLE . BELIEVE EVERY SINGEL WORD IN IT . TRUST GOD not man
GET IN THOSE BIBLES and lets all just start afresh IN IT . BUT most wont do it . most refuse it
and rather just at most they read it but only THROUGH their teachers views and not FOR THEMSELVES .
WELL , guess what , THOSE aint gonna make it . Sorry to have to say that , but its out of love that i do say it .
GET back in the bible everyone . We can learn IT and talk about IT FOR OURSELVES .

 

[amigo de christo]

Can't have one without the other. If the Bible is not without errors, then I can claim that any idea with which I disagree must be an error.

Maybe. It depends. If my faith depends on a gospel message that is shown to be unreliable, on what basis does my faith persevere when under trial?

I don't know what you mean, but okay, I won't.

this might seem hard to believe in this day and age . BUT THE BIBLE does NOT contain errors .
It contains TRUTH . what seems as a contradiction WILL SOON be understood that is what our MISUNDERSTANDING OF IT
that made it SEEM like a contradiction .
And this is coming from a man WHOM GOD put into that bible and has been in it for hours daily ever since .
Since may thirtieth , GOD put me INTO that bible and in it i do spend hours daily , every day .
And pardner , Thats been since two thousand and six . THEY ARE LYING TO US
people just want to make the bible seem as though its mens intreptations of things . IN ORDER TO DECIEVE
us into what MEN NOW TEACH TODAY as though THAT IS SOMEHOW ABSOLUTE TRUTH .
THE BIBLE IS TRUTH my friend . IT does not contain errors . IF errors are spotted its only because
we think its an error . I learned over time . I sure did .
I mean even in the beginning one might think paul and james are odds . BUT AGAIN they are not
this only would appear so , DUE TO OUR , notice the word OUR own lack of understanding .
THIS IS WHY I BEEN BEGGING N PLEADING FOLKS to get back into the bible
stop heeding men who try and make it seem like it has errors , or those who twist it
or those who try and pit scrips against scrips . READ IT FOR Y OURSELVES
and KEEP reading it and then KEEP READING IT .

 

[amigo de christo]

He can't get off the starting blocks because he has decided that the Bible contains errors. As a consequence, he has given himself permission to worship a God of his imagination, or as Homer Simson said, "God is my favorite fictional character."

BINGO . that is exactly what the devil does . HAS GOD REALLY SAID , nay nay ..
the devil comes to create DOUBT in what GOD said . SO marvel not that his men try and create doubt in the BIBLE .
YOU HIT THE NAIL SO DEEP INTO THE WOOD that nail is now a hybrid of wood and metal . YOU GOT IT MY FRIEND .
Now thank GOD for that , cause were it not for him we would be in dire trouble and be decieved by men .

 

[MatthewG]

Deconstructionists are not concerned with learning knowledge or wisdom from the apostles and prophets.

That is a very huge statement that could be or not be true CadyandZoe.

You should interview them.

Not every human being is the same nor should they all be clumpped up to be the same as every individual is unique and not every single one is brainwashed though brainwashed people who have been stunted by religion and manmade traditions need helping hand to get out of that mud puddle.

Not every baptized believes every thing another baptiezed may believes.
Not every catholic believes every thing another catholic may believe.
Not every jehovah witness may believe everything their congergation says,
Not every Mormon believes everything their congergation says…

This is why desconstruction does exist it revovles around looking at your inferstruction; and examining it closely and also examining your preconcieved notions; and also tradtions you may been taught that. May not hold water when one studies and looks at what God had done and Jesus said and the apostles.


I guess in a way that is why so many bibles exist and the only way to get to as close to what the copies were is to go back to greek and hebrew but not everyone is willingly to fo such things and that is okay… cause the bible does contain errors but its not on a massive scale ; but there also bibles that get away from the original and go for paraphase or thought for thought functions.

Its the spirit of what is written that matters; does it lead to love? Does lead to building up faith?

 

[CadyandZoe]

That is a very huge statement that could be or not be true CadyandZoe.

You should interview them.


Not every human being is the same nor should they all be clumpped up to be the same as every individual is unique and not every single one is brainwashed though brainwashed people who have been stunted by religion and manmade traditions need helping hand to get out of that mud puddle.

Not every baptized believes every thing another baptiezed may believes.
Not every catholic believes every thing another catholic may believe.
Not every jehovah witness may believe everything their congergation says,
Not every Mormon believes everything their congergation says…

This is why desconstruction does exist it revovles around looking at your inferstruction; and examining it closely and also examining your preconcieved notions; and also tradtions you may been taught that. May not hold water when one studies and looks at what God had done and Jesus said and the apostles.


I guess in a way that is why so many bibles exist and the only way to get to as close to what the copies were is to go back to greek and hebrew but not everyone is willingly to fo such things and that is okay… cause the bible does contain errors but its not on a massive scale ; but there also bibles that get away from the original and go for paraphase or thought for thought functions.

Its the spirit of what is written that matters; does it lead to love? Does lead to building up faith?

I agree with your righteous sentiment. We ought not to paint everyone with a broad brush. I get that and I agree with you on that point. But am I really painting people with a broad brush?

Words have meaning and in order to attain a fuller understanding of various concepts, one needs to tighten up definitions. One might examine preconceived notions but is that, in truth, deconstruction? One might explore presuppositions but is THAT, in truth, deconstruction? One might question a religious tradition, but is that, in truth. deconstruction?

I don't think so. Consider the word "deconstruction" itself. If I am right, the prefix "de-" in the word "deconstruction" indicates "reversal". A particular belief system is systematically being reversed, which results in a departure from that system altogether.

In the building trade, we call that "demolition" -- the process of removing part or all of a building to make way for newer parts or a completely new building. It is very costly to remove an entire building. It is more cost-effective to remove the roof and the walls and keep the foundation.

Paul the apostle spoke about this in his first epistle to the Corinthians. In that context, Paul speaks about his role as the foundation builder, and one man might build on top of the foundation with fireproof materials. In contrast, another man might build with combustible materials. The foundation, of course, is non-combustible. The teaching of Paul is uncontestable as it comes by direct revelation from above. Thus, if a man or a woman were to build on the solid foundation of Jesus Christ, one would be saved even if he or she should build with combustible materials. (false doctrines.)

Thus, concerning the faith, one will do well to demolish down to the foundation but keep the foundation. Based on the conversations I have been reading on this board, I fear that some are deconstructing or demolishing the foundation itself.

But why is it called "deconstruction"? Why do people use $10 words they borrowed from a college professor? I fear some are giving way to peer pressure, or attempting to gain approval, or fear the lack of authenticity.

I design houses for a living, so one might say that I am in the construction business. Builders begin with the foundation and build everything on top of that. The strength of the building depends on strong materials and good engineering practices. But suppose the house has a leaky roof. One is not likely to deconstruct the house all the way down to the foundation and rebuild the house just to fix a leaky roof.

Deconstruction doesn't seem to indicate an examination of a doctrinal confession. The goal of deconstructionism isn't to fix the house; the goal of deconstructionism is to demolish the house. The use of a $10 word seems to obfuscate the actual process. A Baptist who questions one of the distinctives isn't destroying the foundation. Not even close. But I am concerned for those in the deconstruction movement who claim to have abandoned Christianity, when in fact, one has abandoned "folk" Christianity characteristic of young children.

But I also fear for the college-age Christians who beg the approval of professors and classmates and in the face of challenges to authenticity, burn the entire house down.

 

[St. SteVen]

Pretty sure or sure?
So you believe those who aren't circumcised of heart can still be saved?

Wow. Like that has anything to do with salvation. Seriously?
Not exactly a major doctrine. Surprised you would make a big deal out of that.
Unless I am missing something here.

You're proving to be a tricky one to get a straight answer from!
Quiet went for an easy target and you appear to avoid everything.

I don't bother with loaded questions, or ones I don;t care to respond to.
I'm not obligated to reply to anything. Right?
Do you feel that you are entitled to have all your questions answered?
You may find me very frustrating. Don't take it personally.

 

[St. SteVen]

smoke and mirrors.

And now you want me to read your PM?
You obviously don't take me seriously.
No wonder so many Christians with questions became atheists,
Who would want to associate themselves with Christians?