I have noticed the following Negatives about the 'rapture'...

[keithr]

STAND on the HOLY DOCTRINE OF THE LORD . for many now stand on the precepts and doctrines of men . And that
will not help them at all .

Yes, don't blindly believe what people tell you, but read the Bible for yourself and figure out what it really says. That's how the Protestant movement came about, when the original manuscripts were read and it was discovered that what the Roman Catholic church was teaching was incorrect. The churches still teach some incorrect doctrine, so we need to read and study the Bible for ourselves - don't be lazy and just trust what others say; your eternal future may depend on it!

I've tried to help by quoting various verses on the subject of the rapture timing, and telling how I interpret them, and others have done the same. It's up to the reader to apply his/her own reasoning to decide what they believe.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, don't blindly believe what people tell you, but read the Bible for yourself and figure out what it really says. That's how the Protestant movement came about, when the original manuscripts were read and it was discovered that what the Roman Catholic church was teaching was incorrect. The churches still teach some incorrect doctrine, so we need to read and study the Bible for ourselves - don't be lazy and just trust what others say; your eternal future may depend on it!

I've tried to help by quoting various verses on the subject of the rapture timing, and telling how I interpret them, and others have done the same. It's up to the reader to apply his/her own reasoning to decide what they believe.

Yet you blindly believe in a 'pre-trib' rapture that cannot be found in scripture = unless you add your words upon God's words.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Many are deceived by the lies of satan, deceived by the doctrines of man, puffed up by their own vain conceits but if any have not repented & turned from sin to a living God then it will not benefit them at Christ's second coming!​

All will be loss to those looking or not looking for his appearance simply bc instead of being " IN CHRIST", they remained in the flesh, resisting the Spirit!

The mouth of a deceived heart spouts words that it's soul will be required to pay!

​

Revelation 2:10​

“Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.”

 

[rebuilder 454]

STAND on the HOLY DOCTRINE OF THE LORD . for many now stand on the precepts and doctrines of men . And that
will not help them at all .

Does the "Holy Doctrine" include Jesus declaration of the pretrib rapture?
Or should we reframe what is there into your insistence that only YOUR DOCTRINE is infallible?
You are actually making a fool of yourself.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I've tried to help by quoting various verses on the subject of the rapture timing, and telling how I interpret them, and others have done the same. It's up to the reader to apply his/her own reasoning to decide what they believe.

Amen! Precious brother Keith, have done that and decided for myself. Praying for others 'on the fence':

God's Great GRACE Departure!

I have decided to follow Jesus?

Amen.

 

[keithr]

Yet you blindly believe in a 'pre-trib' rapture that cannot be found in scripture = unless you add your words upon God's words.

Once again you have made wrong assumptions! I have not ignored my own advice, but I have read the Bible carefully, particularly the book of Revelation, along with guidance such as can be found in this video - The Book of Revelation - Session 10 of 24 - A Remastered Commentary by Chuck Missler, and have come to my own conclusions. I don't blindly believe any doctrine. It's not in my nature to do that as I am a very logically thinking person - I need to understand a Bible teaching in order to fully believe in it.

 

[David in NJ]

Once again you have made wrong assumptions! I have not ignored my own advice, but I have read the Bible carefully, particularly the book of Revelation, along with guidance such as can be found in this video - The Book of Revelation - Session 10 of 24 - A Remastered Commentary by Chuck Missler, and have come to my own conclusions. I don't blindly believe any doctrine. It's not in my nature to do that as I am a very logically thinking person - I need to understand a Bible teaching in order to fully believe in it.

Use 'logic' then.

#1 - Christ specifically said HE is Coming after the Tribulation of those days = Matt ch24

#2 - Christ always said HE is Coming at the End of this Age and NEVER said HE would come before that.

#3 - The Prophets and Apostles all said Christ is Coming after the Tribulation/Antichrist

Logic commands us that HE who created all things is CORRECT.

All 'pre-tribbers' abandon 'logic' and the very words of God so that they can prop-up their opinion.

 

[MatthewG]

The negativity comes when faced with challenges to ones beliefs.

Some people even find that assaulting to their character.

Some people find that it is a challenge to their already comfortable and content place of being.

Everyone is in there own Garden, in which they are choosing how to live and believe, may the trust God to lead them to truth, and ... the bible is the word of God - sharper than any two edged sword.

 

[keithr]

Use 'logic' then.

#1 - Christ specifically said HE is Coming after the Tribulation of those days = Matt ch24

Jesus is answering three questions in that chapter, but none of those questions is "When will you return to receive us to yourself?" (from John 14:3, "... I will come again, and will receive you to myself; that where I am, you may be there also").

#2 - Christ always said HE is Coming at the End of this Age and NEVER said HE would come before that.

As I just quoted from John 14:3, he did say that he would come to resurrect and gather the Church so that we may be with him.

#3 - The Prophets and Apostles all said Christ is Coming after the Tribulation/Antichrist

You're putting words into their mouths and making incorrect assumptions. Paul never mentioned when the rapture/resurrection would take place, and only commented that a trumpet will sound, as in 1 Corinthians 15:52, when he wrote:

(52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.​

However, although you might be assuming that he was referring to the last of the seven trumpets in Revelation 8-11, this cannot be, since the visions recorded in that book had not yet been written. And if you were to watch that video I linked to you would also know that the Church, represented symbolically in Revelation by the 24 elders, will have already been resurrected and are in heaven with Jesus before the Great Tribulations starts.

All 'pre-tribbers' abandon 'logic' and the very words of God so that they can prop-up their opinion.

That is a false accusation. Remember Paul's advice to Timothy, 2 Timothy 2:24-26 (WEB):

(24) The Lord’s servant must not quarrel, but be gentle towards all, able to teach, patient,​

(25) in gentleness correcting those who oppose him: perhaps God may give them repentance leading to a full knowledge of the truth,​

(26) and they may recover themselves out of the devil’s snare, having been taken captive by him to his will.​

 

[rebuilder 454]

Once again you have made wrong assumptions! I have not ignored my own advice, but I have read the Bible carefully, particularly the book of Revelation, along with guidance such as can be found in this video - The Book of Revelation - Session 10 of 24 - A Remastered Commentary by Chuck Missler, and have come to my own conclusions. I don't blindly believe any doctrine. It's not in my nature to do that as I am a very logically thinking person - I need to understand a Bible teaching in order to fully believe in it.

Missler is one of the best teachers.
He always says, " check things out for yourself, i am only provoking you to dig in the word for yourself".
He is the one that i got the phrase "condemnation before investigation"

 

[rebuilder 454]

Use 'logic' then.

#1 - Christ specifically said HE is Coming after the Tribulation of those days = Matt ch24

#2 - Christ always said HE is Coming at the End of this Age and NEVER said HE would come before that.

#3 - The Prophets and Apostles all said Christ is Coming after the Tribulation/Antichrist

Logic commands us that HE who created all things is CORRECT.

All 'pre-tribbers' abandon 'logic' and the very words of God so that they can prop-up their opinion.

QUOTE ;
"#2 - Christ always said HE is Coming at the End of this Age and NEVER said HE would come before that."

Just go ahead and cut rev 14 out of your bible
Then change "before the flood" in mat 24 to "after the flood"

Then pretend Jesus misspoke when the said concerning the one taken/left; "watch and be ready".

Then pretend rev is wrong when it says all earths inhabitants take the mark, and those refusing are martyred.( which only leaves the jews ushered to safety in the trib)

It is ludicrous that you claim to invoke any logic. Logic is the enemy of false doctrine.

Your error's cornerstone is your starting place.
You begin in a aircastle dynamic of "pretrib is a lie"
Then you proceed to find verses that DO NOT prove anything, because we ALL believe Jesus returns after the trib.

But above all, rev 14 is such a destroyer of any hope of a postrib rapture, unless you also rip out that the dead in Christ Precede the living harvested in rev 14.
Wow
How can you devote such zeal to that dead doctrine?
You are left in ashes.
Your teachers were so evil to promote the "one coming" lie.
They deceived you big time.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The negativity comes when faced with challenges to ones beliefs.

Some people even find that assaulting to their character.

Some people find that it is a challenge to their already comfortable and content place of being.

Everyone is in there own Garden, in which they are choosing how to live and believe, may the trust God to lead them to truth, and ... the bible is the word of God - sharper than any two edged sword.

Jesus was hard on those with false doctrine.
So was paul
So was the prophets.
If i am shown that the bible is against my beliefs then i MUST change over to truth.
The prophets were hard on rebellion and spoke with authority.
They came " from heaven to men"
Lack of context, and twisting verses is the friend of deception.
I am a reader and conveyer.
If i am biblically sound, and harmonic with heaven, they are forced to refute the word.
I am only a messenger

 

[Cassandra]

Then pretend rev is wrong when it says all earths inhabitants take the mark, and those refusing are martyred.( which only leaves the jews ushered to safety in the trib)

Where do you get this?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Where do you get this?

" every man, woman, and child , all take the mark..."
In rev.
Revelation 13:16
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
.

 

[Cassandra]

About the Jews? Gal 3:28.29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

 

[rebuilder 454]

About the Jews? Gal 3:28.29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Both is true.
You are addressing one facet of the whole.
Read romans 9-11

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus was hard on those with false doctrine.
So was paul
So was the prophets.
If i am shown that the bible is against my beliefs then i MUST change over to truth.
The prophets were hard on rebellion and spoke with authority.
They came " from heaven to men"
Lack of context, and twisting verses is the friend of deception.
I am a reader and conveyer.
If i am biblically sound, and harmonic with heaven, they are forced to refute the word.
I am only a messenger

Rebuilder 454,

No problem with that, you got my support.

However that is only best done mainly in a setting where you are teaching where you can bring up the other ideas people have, and try to direct from those ideas to what the bible presents as truth by and through the spirit with even admitting that one can be wrong, but encouraging others to challenge themselves, and the traditions of man, and never just accept what someone says but test if by the spirit and to compare scripture with scripture.

All the best, in Christ,
Matthew

 

[David in NJ]

QUOTE ;
"#2 - Christ always said HE is Coming at the End of this Age and NEVER said HE would come before that."

Just go ahead and cut rev 14 out of your bible
Then change "before the flood" in mat 24 to "after the flood"

Then pretend Jesus misspoke when the said concerning the one taken/left; "watch and be ready".

Then pretend rev is wrong when it says all earths inhabitants take the mark, and those refusing are martyred.( which only leaves the jews ushered to safety in the trib)

It is ludicrous that you claim to invoke any logic. Logic is the enemy of false doctrine.

Your error's cornerstone is your starting place.
You begin in a aircastle dynamic of "pretrib is a lie"
Then you proceed to find verses that DO NOT prove anything, because we ALL believe Jesus returns after the trib.

But above all, rev 14 is such a destroyer of any hope of a postrib rapture, unless you also rip out that the dead in Christ Precede the living harvested in rev 14.
Wow
How can you devote such zeal to that dead doctrine?
You are left in ashes.
Your teachers were so evil to promote the "one coming" lie.
They deceived you big time.

Biblical Holy Spirit Logic = Post Trib declaration

And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Biblical Holy Spirit Logic = Post Trib declaration

And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Be ready?
You say the rapture us not untill every sign is completed, including the timing you misplace at the end of the wrath.
Your very testimony prohibits you from being ready for a rapture.
The only "ready" your doctrine suggests is for the antichrist to appear and chase postribbers from cave to cave.
IOW Your "understanding" basically has Jesus telling you that you have to be ready for the flood or great tribulation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Biblical Holy Spirit Logic = Post Trib declaration

And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

...and BTW, that goes without saying that the "one taken/left" would be at the white horses 2nd coming post wrath.
IOW, you would have the one taken and one left as 50% of the Earth's population righteous and 50% of the Earth's population as heathen, or , basically Satan worshipers with the mark of the beast. Now that's real interesting because the Bible says that the Antichrist kills anyone who does not take the mark.
so practically on every level, or every single belief that you're trying to impose on scripture ,it is a total failure.