Prophecy and History

[Reggie Belafonte]

What makes you "AntiSemitic" is the fact you attack a race and a nation with no sense that they have yet to accept Christ. You attack them as if they have already rejected Christ. As you surely know, many cultural groups reject Christ initially, only to hear the Gospel more clearly through a Christian equipped to reach that group.

Can you imagine my rejecting the whole world as damned because "they have rejected the Gospel?" That's not the attitude Christ had even in a day when all Israel seems to have rejected his message. He said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

In other words, many people reject Christ due to cultural upbringing and propaganda, and do so without a full knowledge of what they've been led to do. Black people may have been raised to believe all white people oppress them. But that is pure propaganda. Many white people are very happy with black people, and enjoy friendship together.

It's the same with religious propaganda. Muslims are taught that Christians are their enemies and want to destroy them. But when they actually meet a Christian they find that though many Christians are false Christians and would indeed kill them, real Christianity is quite different.

You should stop throwing rocks at Jews as if they are worse than any other cultural groups. They can come to Christ just like you and I did. What you're doing is not, in my opinion, exemplary Christianity. It is a very poor witness--not just to Jews but to any cultural group that rejects Christ.

Am i Anti-Semitic ? No not at all in fact, I am not against anyone because of their Race, that is stupid ! i find such moronic.

My Sir name is Jewish.

I want all people to come to Christ Jesus, why because they are Lost ! understand that ! and the reason, why should i respect one who is not worthy = Lost ! For they are as Jesus said, Under a curse ! for they are of this world that is Full of Delusions and Deceptions in fact !
Now such people abide in this world ? Just as they did what they did to Jesus ? That is who they are in fact and that means all people regardless who are not Saved in fact, for they are under the power of Satan in fact !
Now Jesus said forgive them for they know not what they do ? That's true. Jesus was calling to God.

Within Christian Churches ? their are demonic powers undermining such, clearly this is the case ! for within their are Satanic people working to undermine Christ Jesus and peddling this world in fact.

Then we have other Religions like Islam that are not worthy of Christ Jesus at all and the same that goes for the Jewish Religion etc etc for they are all about this world in fact ! it's bad enough that Christianity is sick with the love for this world, as Jesus explained was the problem in fact, for they are Lost ! get that ! Lost that means they are not worthy in fact. for they do not know what they do ? They are evil and rotten and cursed ! For if they were Saved they would know the fact that they were once under a curse in fact.

I remember the days that were of some Priest who stood up for Christ Jesus, not nowadays they don't, they peddle Religion ! and Governments dictate over them, for they are in bed with this world. But i stand up for Christ Jesus and his Body being the Church and not some yellow belly black snake Church of this world, for such will never lead one to Christ Jesus but only into Hell in fact ! I call such as them out ! for they are false !

I do not respect lukewarm so called Christians, for they are lost in fact.
One must be on fire for Christ Jesus a Light of hope and one does not put you candle under something but out for all to see.
Sure i understand the people who are not Saved and why ! but the thing is that many do not want to be Saved in fact, why because they love the darkness in fact more than the light. for such empowers themselves their ego with fools like wise ? That's why they killed Jesus ! They did not want him in fact and they wanted others to serve them ? why do they do this, is because they are depraved ! For they are a curse for all, a parasite !

I have worked for very wealthy people with huge houses everything but no real love from their wife or children or any real friends at all, everyone despise them as a person. They only get off on undermining others ? and that is typical of all fools, for they are just like any criminal. willing to inflict pain just like they did to Jesus, clearly this is the case ! So why should i stand with them ? I don't !
I stand with Christ Jesus, for i am with Christ Jesus.
They who do not stand with Christ Jesus will be in pain for their actions for ever, who would want that on your Soul, something that was not man enough ! for such created this world that is full of deceptions and delusions.
How about the Kingdom of God ! Good will towards all ? like a brother you promote growth in one, not decay !

 

[Patrick1966]

My Sir name is Jewish.

Do you mean surname?

 

[Patrick1966]

I do not respect lukewarm so called Christians

You're not their judge, brother. We're not supposed to judge or condemn others otherwise Jesus will judge us in the same way. We should feel pity for unbelievers and "lukewarm" Christians and then pray for them. That's much easier said than done, especially in the heat of a moment. I fall short of that all of the time. Still, that's what we're supposed to strive to do.

 

[Patrick1966]

They can come to Christ just like you and I did.

Jews will only go to Christ after all non-Jews (Gentiles) have done so. Until then, God will not permit all of them to do so. Through Paul, God also told us not to be arrogant about our knowledge of the truth (faith in Christ) and, yet, that's exactly what many Christians do.

Romans 11:25 ESV
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jews will only go to Christ after all non-Jews (Gentiles) have done so. Until then, God will not permit all of them to do so. Through Paul, God also told us not to be arrogant about our knowledge of the truth (faith in Christ) and, yet, that's exactly what many Christians do.

Romans 11:25 ESV
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

That's a little confusing to me, Patrick. 1st you say Jews will "only go to Christ after Gentiles have done so." Then you say "God will not permit *all* of them to do so." So which is it? Can some come or not?

But I believe that God will separate the sheep from the goats on the day he comes back, to establish the Jewish nation on faith. It is only in the present age that the nation is held back from coming to Christ *as a nation.* And that's because there are still too many enemies allowed to go free to stir things up, preventing people from coming to Christ.

 

[Patrick1966]

Can some come or not?

My understanding is that some are permitted to believe in Jesus as we see many cases of Jews being converted. However, the entire body of Jewish believers will not and cannot believe in Jesus until all Gentiles have gone to Jesus. Again, that is my understanding based on what Paul wrote.

 

[Patrick1966]

But I believe that God will separate the sheep from the goats on the day he comes back, to establish the Jewish nation on faith. It is only in the present age that the nation is held back from coming to Christ *as a nation.* And that's because there are still too many enemies allowed to go free to stir things up, preventing people from coming to Christ.

I share your belief based on the following:

1 Corinthians 15:22-25 ESV
22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

All people who ever lived will go to Jesus and they will be "under his feet" just as people were under the feet of emperors and kings in Paul's time.

 

[ewq1938]

Jews will only go to Christ after all non-Jews (Gentiles) have done so.

That isn't from scripture though. There is no mass national conversion of the Jews to Christ in scripture. Individuals come to Christ, which would be a re-grafting back to the Olive tree but not on a national level.

 

[Randy Kluth]

That isn't from scripture though. There is no mass national conversion of the Jews to Christ in scripture. Individuals come to Christ, which would be a re-grafting back to the Olive tree but not on a national level.

I wouldn't agree. All Israel subscribed to the Old Covenant at Sinai, and later. They began en masse.

That being said, follow through is another thing entirely... Yes, individuals must decide if they're going to stick with God's Covenants, or not.

When a nation falls into decline, it may do so with little hope of recovery, when the evil-doers become so dominant that the majority is kept from reform. But God is able, at the proper time, to remove the evil-doers, to allow a complete recovery of a nation. I believe God's word is at stake on this.

 

[ewq1938]

I wouldn't agree.

Sure but done without any scripture declaring a mass conversion. It's just one of many things believed in but without scriptural support.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Sure but done without any scripture declaring a mass conversion. It's just one of many things believed in but without scriptural support.

There are many, many prophecies of the restoration of Israel. You won't likely accept any of them. You can begin, however, with Acts 1.

 

[ewq1938]

There are many, many prophecies of the restoration of Israel. You won't likely accept any of them. You can begin, however, with Acts 1.

Be more specific. Also, we are talking about the belief that in the end times, all Jews will accept Christ. It is not found in scripture.

Israel has been restored through Christ, where the only members of Israel are Christians and this is no longer racial but spiritual. Showing that Israel is restored does not prove the mass conversion belief and has nothing to do with those who reject Christ since their branches are removed.

 

[Patrick1966]

There is no mass national conversion of the Jews to Christ in scripture.

Is it reasonable to surmise that Jews (and most everyone else) will likely follow Jesus upon his return?

 

[ewq1938]

Is it reasonable to surmise that Jews (and most everyone else) will likely follow Jesus upon his return?

How does Armageddon happen then? Armies are there to try to fight Christ. They don't convert to him.

 

[Patrick1966]

How does Armageddon happen then? Armies are there to try to fight Christ. They don't convert to him.

Isn't Armageddon after Satan is released after the thousand years?

 

[ewq1938]

Isn't Armageddon after Satan is released after the thousand years?

No, it's at the second coming before the thousand years. At Armageddon the beast and FP will be defeated along with their armies leaving satan to be imprisoned in the pit.

The only battle after satan is released is when he brings a new army to Jerusalem which is burned by fire from heaven.

 

[Patrick1966]

No, it's at the second coming before the thousand years. At Armageddon the beast and FP will be defeated along with their armies leaving satan to be imprisoned in the pit.

The only battle after satan is released is when he brings a new army to Jerusalem which is burned by fire from heaven.

Ok. I readily confess to being utterly confused about end-times eschatology.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Jews will only go to Christ after all non-Jews (Gentiles) have done so. Until then, God will not permit all of them to do so. Through Paul, God also told us not to be arrogant about our knowledge of the truth (faith in Christ) and, yet, that's exactly what many Christians do.

Romans 11:25 ESV
Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Their is no such thing as Jews nowadays truly, for such are not worthy of God in fact. as the real Jews who were worthy of God moved forward in Christ in fact, for they are Christians in fact.

As for one claiming to be Jewish ? that would be one who follows the OT totally and nothing to do with bloodline.

Fact is that once one is 3 times removed from your blood line such does not exist truly in regards to your forefathers ? That means you are related to your Mum and Dad and back to your Grand Mothers and Grand Fathers and your Great Grand Mothers and Great Grand Dads but before them one is not truly related much at all by blood. So one can only truly go back 3 generations to be meaningful truly related in any real way, because the 4th generation becomes so wide it fails to be worthy of reality in fact.

So all this rubbish about the so called people claim to be Jews by race is nonsense in fact.

The number one thing for all people is to be born again, outside of that you are a nobody in relation to God in fact.

The Jews are totally Lost bro. unless they are born again Christians ! outside of that fact, such a one is peddling an Anti-Christ message in fact.
You need to read Rom 11 again and all of Rom for that matter bro, so as too get a true handle on the issue that was at hand in regards to what Paul is truly on about in all this.

 

[Jay Ross]

Isn't Armageddon after Satan is released after the thousand years?

No, Armageddon is going to occur in our near future around the time of the end of this present age. That is when Satan is judged and dispatched into the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Be more specific. Also, we are talking about the belief that in the end times, all Jews will accept Christ. It is not found in scripture.

No, that is not my argument, that every Jew will accept Christ. My argument is that a large majority of Jews will accept Christianity as the standard for their nation, just as many European nations did in history.

Many nations became Christian when the leadership or the government embraced Christianity. The leadership sometimes adopts what it thinks is good for the country and will be accepted by the country. Over time, however, the leadership and the country capitulate to tolerance for minorities within the country that want something else.

In the Millennial Kingdom, the same forces will be at play. However, the international dynamics will change, since hostile nations will have been broken in the spiritual world. There will be insufficient support for resistance to God's word in the hearts of all nations.

When Christian nations return to Christ, and when Israel comes to Christ, it will be a conscientious choice by the majority of the people with much less resistance to religious dogmatism. Independence from religious "coercion" will not find support in societies that wish to be blessed of God.

I've given my evidence for the mass conversion of Israel at the coming of Christ many times. It begins with Gen 12-17, where God promised Abraham a nation of his descendants. It continues through the Prophets where it is reaffirmed that Israel will continue despite her setbacks. And in the New Testament, Paul argues that Israel's current "lost" state as a nation is just temporary. That is in Rom 9-11. Acts 1 shows how the Disciples of Jesus expected him to come back to restore Israel as a nation. That would require a *mass* return to the word of God.

Israel has been restored through Christ, where the only members of Israel are Christians and this is no longer racial but spiritual. Showing that Israel is restored does not prove the mass conversion belief and has nothing to do with those who reject Christ since their branches are removed.

You shouldn't base your whole argument on truths that all Christians believe, or on a single metaphor, which can easily be misunderstood. Israel had the original calling, and in Paul's time it would appear that Gentiles are coming to Israel in their conversion. But the purpose has always been to form *many nations,* without actually joining Israel's membership.

We all agree that race and nationality does not prevent non-Jews from coming to Christ. So that is a diversion away from the subject. The question is, does God make specific promises to specific nations? I would argue that He does, even though He is impartial with respect to Salvation.