Are the words of Jesus still meant for Christians?

[Episkopos]

Yes, they are falling all around us. In my own natural family, I see too many things and often I can but bite my own tongue. If I am not there now, I certainly have been there in my own history. God has led me out, but am I completely out of the world and its ways? I hope to always be able to say that with His help I am still growing becoming always more like Him.

Episkopos said:
"We are supposed to discuss the subject at hand...without attacking the person. I will allow several attacks on my person until I respond."

Such ideal discussion would be a good thing, but too seldom is it seen in many places.

I seldom am able any more to participate as I have done in the past. God has, purposely I suppose, put me in some difficult places recently. Sometimes I believe that I have an answer, but then He checks me and I am unable to "open my mouth".

Amen! Remaining humble, honest, and faithful will always be a challenge and one made harder when accusers come to bait believers into reacting in the same way back to them...in the flesh.

Because this is a public forum...I have to respond to the false advertizing...the fake news, as it were, of those who seek to denigrate not only me as a person...but also the gospel.

 

[Mr E]

That other thread was you doing your normal accusations against the brethren. You are precisely what you accuse me of. But you can't see past that mountainous ego of yours. Mr. E... as you will be.

This thread is your treatise on ‘being judged as you judge others.’ By your own definition of ‘goading’ in your attempt to call out what you perceive as his error as I’m calling out yours, aren’t you goading him?

We would be left with a site where correction is not permitted.

 

[Episkopos]

This thread is your treatise on ‘being judged as you judge others.’ By your own definition of ‘goading’ in your attempt to call out what you perceive as his error as I’m calling out yours, aren’t you goading him?

We would be left with a site where correction is not permitted.

I'm correcting him....his outer man. I'm always hopeful that carnal believers will humble themselves to see beyond the limits of their own egos...into an eternal realm of possibilities found in Christ.

There is a difference between engaging a doctrine or position....and attacking the person.

What is hard to differentiate between with SO MANY is the certainty of religious ideology...and the truth. I'm confident in the truth...not based on what serves me...but what I know from God. Can just anyone see that? Of course not. Only those who have been likewise allowed into the kingdom realm will be able to see the difference with any kind of accuracy.

So then let people be as certain as they want to be. Judgment is coming.

 

[Episkopos]

Jesus said that many will come into Him by another way...through ideology, or a false gospel. Not through the front door...not through the narrow way. He calls these thieves.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that enters not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Jesus is coming back to these as a thief in the night...to take away all their certainties, lies, and accusations that these thieves add to the assemblies. He is coming to take back what is His.

 

[MatthewG]

Also Jesus words are life and spirit.

So its important to learn who he is, and become rooted in Him.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

While i dont believe that Jesus is coming back like promised to the people in revelation (cause I believe he did that already and estbalished the heavenly Kingdom that resides in the hearts of believers today); there is no other way to the Father except through the Son.

Some people remain in “the way” outercourt, some people remain in “the truth” inner couter, some people remain in “the life” the holy of holies.

Then there are those who try to come in without the right clothing, and then you have some that dont care that pass right by.


Death inevitable. Its best to be rightly clothed before you leave out of this world and are judged upon your last breathe, for all good and evil. Everyone will be rewarded rightly and God is not mocked; everyone reaps what they sow be it by the flesh or by the spirit.

 

[St. SteVen]

Presuming you are correct about the childlike faith, how many adults [adults according to the flesh] know what childlike faith is... and/or have such faith?

When was Peter fully converted? If different from when he was fully converted, when did Peter, if ever, know all of the correct answers to the questions I posed? Can a person with below average intelligence according to human guidelines [I.Q. or Intelligence Quotient] be saved without knowing all of those answers? Did Jesus give us the answer with the following words?

Lu 12:48

But he that knew not, and committed things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For to whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom men have committed much, from him they will ask the more.

"Much is given... much [is] required"!

Luke 18:16 NIV
But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me,
and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus is coming back to these as a thief in the night...to take away all their certainties, lies, and accusations that these thieves add to the assemblies. He is coming to take back what is His.

Does that mean that when the Second Coming happens that Jesus will steal the show? - LOL

 

[amigo de christo]

The words of men will always be for men and men will happily go with the flow of the tides .
BUT THE WORDS OF GOD and OF CHRIST and of them apostels , ARE FOR THE LAMBS . AND THEY DO STILL APPLY .

 

[amigo de christo]

The words of men will always be for men and men will happily go with the flow of the tides .
BUT THE WORDS OF GOD and OF CHRIST and of them apostels , ARE FOR THE LAMBS . AND THEY DO STILL APPLY .

TRUTH IS THE WORDS OF CHRIST are what SHALL ENDURE . anything contrary WILL be burned up .

 

[Laurina]

I swear, the gospel is so easy to understand, and yet we are forever throwing up barriers. If there exists a thing we don't understand, we are to keep reading, and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance.

Proverbs 3:5-6

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

 

[Lizbeth]

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, ESPECIALLY (but not exclusively) for those that believe. Your brain fizzes out at the very idea.

I don't think anyone's brain fizzes out at that idea at all....most of us have loved ones who aren't saved and we in our humanity would much rather think they will all be saved somehow. However we are not God and our human perspective is not as high as His, which is why we need to receive His word and place it above our own thoughts and feelings.

It's hard to take one isolated verse and take it in a way that contradicts all other scriptures. We need to rightly divide it in a way that harmonizes with other scriptures. It would be helpful to at least start by looking into the meaning of that word "especially". Here are some synonyms in the English and it doesn't necessarily always have the meaning you are ascribing to it:

Thesaurus.com - The world's favorite online thesaurus!

Thesaurus.com is the world’s largest and most trusted online thesaurus for 25+ years. Join millions of people and grow your mastery of the English language.

www.thesaurus.com

As we can see in the link the word "especially" can mean primarily, mainly, chiefly, principally, but it can also mean exclusively, uniquely, specifically, singularly, expressly. It' can be kind of an ambiguous word and I believe it is on on purpose in that verse, because the truth is that Jesus IS the saviour of all men, but as we also know from other scriptures that receiving Him, the engrafted Word, is a necessary condition of partaking of the salvation that He brought, and unfortunately not all do receive Him. We need the Holy Spirit to help us get the right sense of what is meant by that verse.

 

[Episkopos]

I don't think anyone's brain fizzes out at that idea at all....most of us have loved ones who aren't saved and we in our humanity would much rather think they will all be saved somehow.

The truth is not about what suits you. You have to go beyond that kind of superficiality in your reading of the bible.

However we are not God and our human perspective is not as high as His, which is why we need to receive His word and not our thoughts and feelings.

It's hard to take one isolated verse and take it in a way that contradicts all other scriptures. We need to rightly divide it in a way that harmonizes with other scriptures. It would be helpful to at least start out looking into the meaning of that word "especially". Here are some synonyms in the English and it doesn't necessarily always have the meaning you are ascribing to it:

Thesaurus.com - The world's favorite online thesaurus!

Thesaurus.com is the world’s largest and most trusted online thesaurus for 25+ years. Join millions of people and grow your mastery of the English language.

www.thesaurus.com

Unlike my detractors, I always base biblical doctrines by seeing from multiple angles ...both from the OT and the NT...from prophecy to fulfillment. I can't help it if people want to have a superficial understanding. I can't impart the same care I take to have God confirm His word.

That one verse has many others that say the same thing.

Here is another example among too many to list.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

There seems to be a great difficulty in reading what the bible says by so many. Either no one is saved in the world or everyone. No balance. Only an argumentative slant based on an extremist view. The modern church has not yet discovered balance. This could be remedied but for the many ego ministries that have lifted up the carnal religious man...rather than consigning him to the cross.

Whoever doesn't understand how God sees righteousness...needs to start over and read the bible with an open mind and an open heart. An arduous process...but a necessary one to avoid iniquity and future judgment.

Remember that the Pharisees also said they saw (understood)...when they didn't.

 

[Lizbeth]

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Meaning the propitiation for sins was not for the Jews only but for the Gentiles (world/nations) as well. There are scriptures that need to be looked at from the perspective of Israel, since it was to the Jew first.

 

[St. SteVen]

Episkopos said:
Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, ESPECIALLY (but not exclusively) for those that believe. Your brain fizzes out at the very idea.

I don't think anyone's brain fizzes out at that idea at all....most of us have loved ones who aren't saved and we in our humanity would much rather think they will all be saved somehow. However we are not God and our human perspective is not as high as His, which is why we need to receive His word and not our thoughts and feelings.

Seriously?
No one has a problem with our loved ones in a forever burning hell with no hope of escape? Wow.
If our humanity has a problem with that... maybe we need to be MORE human!

It's hard to take one isolated verse and take it in a way that contradicts all other scriptures. We need to rightly divide it in a way that harmonizes with other scriptures. It would be helpful to at least start out looking into the meaning of that word "especially". Here are some synonyms in the English and it doesn't necessarily always have the meaning you are ascribing to it:

I think what typically happens, is we discount (or create workarounds for) verses that don't align
with our own PERSONAL doctrinal position. IMHO

The scripture in question CLEARLY makes "especially for those that believe" a SUBSET of "all people".

1 Timothy 4:10 NIV
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God,
who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

 

[Episkopos]

Meaning the propitiation for sins was not for the Jews only but for the Gentiles (world/nations) as well. There are scriptures that need to be looked at from the perspective of Israel, since it was to the Jew first.

You are not being honest here. Was John writing to the followers of Judaism...or can we see he is speaking to believers in Christ?

You are as slippery as an eel.

If you don't want to be honest before God...stay as you are.

 

[Episkopos]

As per @ Lizbeth

Lizbeth said



" Meaning the propitiation for sins was not for the Jews only but for the Gentiles (world/nations) as well. There are scriptures that need to be looked at from the perspective of Israel, since it was to the Jew first."


Since the dishonesty around here is never challenged I thought to expose the darkness by showing how twisted a thought process can be...when it suits the flesh.

To @ Lizbeth's claim that 1 John 2:2 was regarding the Jews...not Christians. Let's follow her reasoning for a bit....

1 John2 :1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. (According to Lizbeth, this would be John exhorting the Jews to keep the Mosaic law) And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: (Curiously, Lizbeth has Jesus backing up the Old Covenant, thereby negating His sacrifice) (Whatever supports the flesh, I suppose)


2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: (According to Lizbeth, that's the Jews only) and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (Ok, that's us, right Lizbeth...the "also ran's")


3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (According to Lizbeth, this could only be Moses being spoken of here...Jesus is already cast away by her thinking as being not the subject of interest)

Way to go Lizbeth!

 

[Episkopos]

What we see in modern religious ideologues is not only the words of Jesus being ignored, denied, and deviated...but also any deeper connotation of His words through the testimony of others also being deviated and denied.

Makes for an interesting judgment day, doesn't it. When all lies and darkness is exposed to the light. Coming to a place near you.

 

[St. SteVen]

New thread. (another shameless self-promotion)
Welcome one and all.

God wants to save Christians too. --- Say what?

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 NIV So, this says: God is the Savior of all people, and... that will include "believers". Very good news. His salvation of all...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Episkopos]

New thread. (another shameless self-promotion)
Welcome one and all.

God wants to save Christians too. --- Say what?

That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. - 1 Timothy 4:10 NIV So, this says: God is the Savior of all people, and... that will include "believers". Very good news. His salvation of all...

www.christianityboard.com

Can modern ideologues be saved? An interesting question that has many facets.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

What say you?

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Tim. 3:16-17
All 66 books are the word of God, regardless of which messenger wrote it.

Inspired / "God - breathed".

God coummunicated directly or indirectly by putting the words in their minds, exactly how He wanted them to say it. He used their personalities, style of communication, experiences that He brought them through to convey His message.

And of course, the fact that we Trinitarians believe that Jesus is God, everything from the Bible came from Him. This is why He is referred to as the Logos.
I know, it is a conundrum to Non- Trinnys.
It is good that you at least put a value on the Red Letters ... but don't dismiss the rest, they are His as well.