Are the words of Jesus still meant for Christians?

[Episkopos]

Dude.

I posted her quote. where she said Jews and Gentiles

I posted your slander. where you claim she said only jew.

You just keep proving how proud you really are.

if people will not call you out for your lies. thats on you, you will have to answer to God though..

More dissimulation. You guys try to obscure the truth...then scream slander when your are discovered in the act. It's like lifting up a rock and watching the creepy crawlies scurry about. Really!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, Moses heard Israel's promise to do all that the law commands. But don't forget also, the law also made provision for mistakes, errors and even intentional disobedience through the sacrificial system. I don't think the rich young ruler believed that obedience was the pathway to salvation, otherwise, he wouldn't have asked Jesus about it.

I agree with your observation that Jesus wanted the RYR to rethink his position. Jesus challenged the rich young ruler to think deeper about his relationship to the law and to God himself. As we know, being students of Jesus, salvation has always been a matter of inwardness. What attitude did the RYR maintain that allowed him to trust in his money?

I believe that James did not intend to imply that following the Law is impossible. Instead, he was addressing those who only followed the "major" laws such as not committing adultery or murder without understanding the deeper meaning behind them. James was specifically addressing those who committed sins by showing favoritism, which is also against God's laws, even if it is not explicitly stated.

The law was given to show us sin.

as paul said, I did not know sin, until the law..

We will not repent and come to chrisd if we think we are perfect and do not need salvation.

that was the purpose of the law. to show our sin. and also to show what must be done to remove the penalty of sin for remission of said sin. (sacrifice)

which is what Christ came to fulfill..

the RYR thought he obeyed the law since birth. I do not think he had animal sacrifice on his mind, i think he thought he had not sinned or broken the law

Jesus confronted him with the 1st of ten commands.. to show him he did not keep it as he claimed

instead of responding and seeing the truth, he was sad and walked away..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

More dissimulation. You guys try to obscure the truth...then scream slander when your are discovered in the act. It's like lifting up a rock and watching the creepy crawlies scurry about. Really!

More lack of repentance. More lies.

You said she said it was for Jews only

she did not

Meaning the propitiation for sins was not for the Jews only but for the Gentiles (world/nations) as well.

You need to stop.. Because all you are doing is proving what people say about you..

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, Moses heard Israel's promise to do all that the law commands. But don't forget also, the law also made provision for mistakes, errors and even intentional disobedience through the sacrificial system. I don't think the rich young ruler believed that obedience was the pathway to salvation, otherwise, he wouldn't have asked Jesus about it.

All Jews believe that obedience is the pathway to salvation...as it is.

A Christian is meant to obey the gospel. But too many would rather look down on those who haven't receivied that calling..in order to justify themselves.

I agree with your observation that Jesus wanted the RYR to rethink his position. Jesus challenged the rich young ruler to think deeper about his relationship to the law and to God himself. As we know, being students of Jesus, salvation has always been a matter of inwardness. What attitude did the RYR maintain that allowed him to trust in his money?

Not exactly. Jesus affirmed the young man concerning INHERITING life. What He challenged the young man about was his future standing in that future life. Jesus offered him a Bride position...ie, the calling of a saint...in perfection not just salvation. But the RYR wasn't willing to go that far to make his "calling and election sure"

Remember Jesus didn't approach the man. The man went to Jesus.

Too many people read Jesus words .... "If you will be perfect"...to mean..."If you would be saved" This is a way to get the gospel all wrong. The scale of things is missing.

I believe that James did not intend to imply that following the Law is impossible. Instead, he was addressing those who only followed the "major" laws such as not committing adultery or murder without understanding the deeper meaning behind them. James was specifically addressing those who committed sins by showing favoritism, which is also against God's laws, even if it is not explicitly stated.

Amen. James sought to balance out Paul's teaching about being justified by faith...to show that we are also justified by works.

Paul was concerned with holiness. And James was concerned with righteousness.

Both are to be maintained in order to fully preach the gospel.

 

[CadyandZoe]

All Jews believe that obedience is the pathway to salvation...as it is.

A Christian is meant to obey the gospel. But too many would rather look down on those who haven't receivied that calling..in order to justify themselves.

Not exactly. Jesus affirmed the young man concerning INHERITING life. What He challenged the young man about was his future standing in that future life. Jesus offered him a Bride position...ie, the calling of a saint...in perfection not just salvation. But the RYR wasn't willing to go that far to make his "calling and election sure"

Remember Jesus didn't approach the man. The man went to Jesus.

Too many people read Jesus words .... "If you will be perfect"...to mean..."If you would be saved" This is a way to get the gospel all wrong. The scale of things is missing.



Amen. James sought to balance out Paul's teaching about being justified by faith...to show that we are also justified by works.

Paul was concerned with holiness. And James was concerned with righteousness.

Both are to be maintained in order to fully preach the gospel.

I don't think James intended to "balance out" what Paul was saying, since James wasn't talking about "works of the law." James was using the term "works" in a different sense. Let me give you an example.

Suppose a man came to your door to tell you that a bomb would fall on the city tonight. The following is what James might to the man.

James (hypothetically)
Okay, you say that a bomb will fall on our city. But anyone can say that. If you truly believe that, I want to see you packing up your car and leaving the city. If you don't attempt to leave the city, then what good is your claim that a bomb is going to fall?

In his letter, James discussed the correlation between our actions and our beliefs. If we believe that there is a potential danger approaching tonight, we will naturally take all necessary actions to protect ourselves. These actions are a reflection of our beliefs. Similarly, if we believe in receiving undeserved grace from God, we will exhibit kindness, gentleness, and forgiveness toward others. Our ability to forgive others results from God's forgiveness towards us. If we want grace to be part of our universe, we must offer grace to others.

Here's another example. If I believe that God desires fairness and justness, then it's only right that I use a fair set of weights. However, when someone wrongs me, I crave justice, but when I'm the one in the wrong, I seek forgiveness. My scales are uneven. James might advise me to "accept justice from others if you want justice, and accept mercy if you want mercy." Essentially, James is suggesting that my actions should align with my beliefs.

By contrast, Paul takes issue with those who teach justification by rule-keeping. According to this view, God doesn't care about how we feel about it; all God cares about is doing what he says. He argues that those who believe one must follow rules to receive justification are mistaken. Instead, God justifies those who live according to the principles behind the rules. It's important to note that justification by faith apart from the law does not mean justification instead of the Law, as God still justifies those who follow the Law. However, this justification is limited to those who have internalized the Law, integrating God's attitudes, values, standards, and will into their own identity and sense of self. Doing what the law says isn't enough. Adopting God's attitude and values is also required.

While Gentile Christians are not obligated to live Jewishly; we are obligated to learn what God likes and like what he likes; we are to learn what God values and to value what God values; we are to learn what God loves and love what God loves.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't think James intended to "balance out" what Paul was saying, since James wasn't talking about "works of the law." James was using the term "works" in a different sense. Let me give you an example.

Suppose a man came to your door to tell you that a bomb would fall on the city tonight. The following is what James might to the man.

James (hypothetically)
Okay, you say that a bomb will fall on our city. But anyone can say that. If you truly believe that, I want to see you packing up your car and leaving the city. If you don't attempt to leave the city, then what good is your claim that a bomb is going to fall?

In his letter, James discussed the correlation between our actions and our beliefs. If we believe that there is a potential danger approaching tonight, we will naturally take all necessary actions to protect ourselves. These actions are a reflection of our beliefs. Similarly, if we believe in receiving undeserved grace from God, we will exhibit kindness, gentleness, and forgiveness toward others. Our ability to forgive others results from God's forgiveness towards us. If we want grace to be part of our universe, we must offer grace to others.

Here's another example. If I believe that God desires fairness and justness, then it's only right that I use a fair set of weights. However, when someone wrongs me, I crave justice, but when I'm the one in the wrong, I seek forgiveness. My scales are uneven. James might advise me to "accept justice from others if you want justice, and accept mercy if you want mercy." Essentially, James is suggesting that my actions should align with my beliefs.

By contrast, Paul takes issue with those who teach justification by rule-keeping. According to this view, God doesn't care about how we feel about it; all God cares about is doing what he says. He argues that those who believe one must follow rules to receive justification are mistaken. Instead, God justifies those who live according to the principles behind the rules. It's important to note that justification by faith apart from the law does not mean justification instead of the Law, as God still justifies those who follow the Law. However, this justification is limited to those who have internalized the Law, integrating God's attitudes, values, standards, and will into their own identity and sense of self. Doing what the law says isn't enough. Adopting God's attitude and values is also required.

While Gentile Christians are not obligated to live Jewishly; we are obligated to learn what God likes and like what he likes; we are to learn what God values and to value what God values; we are to learn what God loves and love what God loves.

Yes.

It is foolish to say you have faith in God. yet never do anything he says.. in this way it is a claimed faith only. or as james put it. a dead faith

The law of love is what helps.. Thats how we become Christlike. by learning to love as he loved.

Thats why Jesus said, In these two commands are ALL the law and prophets.

its God

 

[Lizbeth]

When discussing matters within the Jewish faith, it is logical for Jesus to state that those who uphold the commandments will be saved. However, it is important to understand that "keeping" the commandments goes beyond mere obedience. To "keep" the commandments involves cherishing and preserving them. The individual who "keeps" the commandments not only follows them but also holds them dear and strives to protect them (internally). Some individuals may go through the motions without truly contemplating the commandments' significance. But not David, who composed many Psalms in which he expressed his devotion to the commandments, frequently meditating on them and cherishing God's word.

Similarly, while Gentile believers are not bound by the law, we still hold onto God's word. We contemplate his teachings and protect them in our hearts. Although we are not required to follow every law, we should hold onto them in our hearts and reflect upon them.

The act of cherishing God's word is a marker of one whom God is saving.

With regard to the Jewish context Paul wrote Romans 10, which sometimes we gentile believers miss.

Romans 10:5-13

For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).” But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”​

For a long time, I overlooked Paul's interpretation of Deuteronomy 30. He argues that Moses also taught justification by faith. According to Moses, anyone under the law who keeps the word "near you, in your mouth and in your heart" will be declared "justified" by God. This means that Moses was teaching a "righteousness based on faith." Keeping the commandments involves more than just following them; it also involves loving them, meditating on them, talking about them, and safeguarding them in the heart. According to Paul, this is what Israel should have done instead of seeking their own way to find God's declaration of "justified."

Sorry for the long post, but I think this is an important concept that is easy to miss but so very important to understanding our faith.

Within the Christian context, we keep Jesus' commandments in like manner. Not only do we obey Jesus, we love his word, we meditate on what he said, we talk to each other about what he said, and we preserve what he said in our hearts. Jewish believers and Christian believers are united in that aspect of the faith. We love what God said, we meditate on it, and we safeguard it in our hearts.

Amen. "The Law" is God's law and was and is a beacon of light in an otherwise rudderless and dark pagan world. We as believers delight in and are instructed by it.......even though we are not "under" it but are free from it to serve in the new way of the Spirit.

 

[Lizbeth]

Doing what the law says isn't enough. Adopting God's attitude and values is also required.

While Gentile Christians are not obligated to live Jewishly; we are obligated to learn what God likes and like what he likes; we are to learn what God values and to value what God values; we are to learn what God loves and love what God loves.

Amen. An inward change of heart in other words. AKA the washing of the water of the word ( which when we hear and receive and are instructed by it, brings about a change inwardly).