What is the Lords Day?

[Mikey-for-sure]

So... you seem to be claiming that worship on Sunday is a pagan religion. - LOL
Does the day of worship determine which god you worship?
Do those who worship on Saturday, honor Saturn?

Hello Steven.
No what I was explaining how Sabbath on the 7 th day as prescribed by the Jews was changed to the 1st day called sunday. Recollections vary on the dates but the salients are there if you are curious.

If I celebrate my wife's birth on my ex-girlfriend's birthday, what character would you ascribe to me? If my wife asks me why I celebrate on my ex's birthday, what should I say?

March 7, 321 AD – Constantine’s Sunday Law

March 7, 321 AD – Constantine’s Sunday Law by Kelly McDonald, Jr. On March 7 321 AD, Constantine approved the “day of the sun” as a day of rest for the Western Roman Empire. It was a la…

sabbathsentinel.org

On the seventh day of March, 321, Constantine gave forth his Sunday law: Let all the judges and town people and the occupation of all trades rest on the venerable day of the sun (Dies Solis); but let those who are situated in the country, freely and at full liberty, attend to the business of agriculture; because it often happens that no other day is so fit for sowing corn and planting vines; lest the critical moment being let slip, men should lose the commodities granted by Heaven. Right there we find the genesis of Sunday keeping in the Christian Church.

The Council of Laodicea - The church followed the leadership of Constantine, and in the year 364, at the council of Laodicea, passed a law requiring that Christians must not Judaize by resting on Saturday.

 

[Hobie]

Hello Steven.
No what I was explaining how Sabbath on the 7 th day as prescribed by the Jews was changed to the 1st day called sunday. Recollections vary on the dates but the salients are there if you are curious.

If I celebrate my wife's birth on my ex-girlfriend's birthday, what character would you ascribe to me? If my wife asks me why I celebrate on my ex's birthday, what should I say?

March 7, 321 AD – Constantine’s Sunday Law

March 7, 321 AD – Constantine’s Sunday Law by Kelly McDonald, Jr. On March 7 321 AD, Constantine approved the “day of the sun” as a day of rest for the Western Roman Empire. It was a la…

sabbathsentinel.org

On the seventh day of March, 321, Constantine gave forth his Sunday law: Let all the judges and town people and the occupation of all trades rest on the venerable day of the sun (Dies Solis); but let those who are situated in the country, freely and at full liberty, attend to the business of agriculture; because it often happens that no other day is so fit for sowing corn and planting vines; lest the critical moment being let slip, men should lose the commodities granted by Heaven. Right there we find the genesis of Sunday keeping in the Christian Church.

The Council of Laodicea - The church followed the leadership of Constantine, and in the year 364, at the council of Laodicea, passed a law requiring that Christians must not Judaize by resting on Saturday.

Yes, you have to read the history to see how this came about, but clearly the early church were Sabbath keepers, it was only when the church in Rome began to allow the ancient 'traditions' and forced it on other areas of the empire that you begin to see changes. In his study on the history on this in his book 'From Sabbath to Sunday', theologian Samuele Bacchiocchi argues that Sunday-keeping was a Roman Catholic innovation that achieved universality because of the authority of the Roman church.

Anti-Jewish sentiments were strong in Rome, and Gentiles became prominent in the church there. Since Hadrian fought against the Jews, his reign would be a likely candidate for the beginning of Sunday observance.

Because of the exigency that arose to separate Christians from the Jews and their Sabbath, Gentile Christians adopted the venerable day of the Sun from pagan sun worship as a substitute. Although the church in Rome influence some areas of the empire, it was not able to change long-standing Sabbath worship in all parts, especially in the East where those beliefs were based on apostolic practice.

Emperor Aurelian begins new Sun cult. (274 A.D.)
[p. 55] In 274, Aurelian created a new cult of the Invincible Sun. Worshipped in a splendid temple, served by pontiffs who were raised to the level of the ancient pontiffs of Rome, celebrated every fourth year by magnificent games, Sol Invictus was definitely promoted to the highest rank in the divine hierarchy and became the official protector of the Sovereigns and of the Empire He [Aurelian] placed in his new sanctuary the images of Bel and Helios, which he captured at Palmyra. In establishing this new State cult, Aurelian in reality proclaimed the dethronement of the old Roman idolatry and the accession of Semitic Sun-worship

[p. 56] This sidereal theology, founded on ancient beliefs of Chaldean astrologers, transformed in the Hellenistic age under the twofold influence of astronomic discoveries and Stoic thought, [was] promoted, after becoming a pantheistic Sun-worship, to the rank of official religion of the Roman Empire.
Source: Franz Cumont, Astrology and Religion Among the Greeks and Romans (reprint; New York: Dover Publications, Inc., 1960), pp. 55, 56.
First Sunday Law enacted by Emperor Constantine -

March, 321 A.D.
On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain-sowing or for vine-planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them for the second time [A.D. 321].)
Source: Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3 (5th ed.; New York: Scribner, 1902), p. 380, note 1.

Transition from Pagan to Christian
[p. 122] This legislation by Constantine probably bore no relation to Christianity; it appears, on the contrary, that the emperor, in his capacity of Pontifex Maximus, was only adding the day of the Sun, the worship of which was then firmly [p. 123] established in the Roman Empire, to the other ferial days of the sacred calendar

[p. 270] What began, however, as a pagan ordinance, ended as a Christian regulation; and a long series of imperial decrees, during the fourth, fifth, and sixth centuries, enjoined with increasing stringency abstinence from labour on Sunday.
Source: Hutton Webster, Rest Days, pp. 122, 123, 270. Copyright 1916 by The Macmillan Company, New York.
Yes, the title Pontifex Maximus is pagan, derived from the Sun worshipping Roman Empire, and the source of the papal title of Pontiff.

Pagan Festivals and Church Policy
The Church made a sacred day of Sunday largely because it was the weekly festival of the sun; for it was a definite Christian policy to take over the pagan festivals endeared to the people by tradition, and to give them a Christian significance.
Source: Arthur Weigall, The Paganism in Our Christianity, p. 145. Copyright 1928 by G. p. Putnams Sons, New York.

 

[Hobie]

The history shows that Christianity let heathen festivals come in and made a acceptance of ancient pagan practices, and the one they used to bring about the change of the Sabbath to the first day was the pagan festival of Easter. The general symbolic story of the death of the son (sun) on a cross (the constellation of the Southern Cross) and his rebirth, overcoming the powers of darkness, was a well worn story in the ancient world. There were plenty of parallel, rival resurrected pagan gods too.

In 195 A.D., Victor, bishop of Rome, tried to force all of the eastern church leaders to keep the annual celebration of Christ's resurrection on Sunday. Of course, the bishops of the other churches protested, insisting that if done at all, the Biblical precedent for this was on the fourteenth day of the month Nisan [Ex 10,12,14, Lev 23:5].

But Victor would not consider this, and had the boldness to write letters "ex-communicating" all leaders and churches that refused to do as he said. He declared all the churches of Asia to be apostates because they would not follow his example in the matter. Back in those days, some churches were more influential than others, but none were "over" the others. What Victor tried to do in 195 AD. was not sanctioned in any way by scripture. This was probably the first time in history that the bishop of Rome attempted to gain control over all the other churches, and commenting on it, Dr. Bower, in his History of the Popes, volume 1, page 18, calls it "The first essay of papal usurpation." In simple language, we would call it, "the first attempt at papal takeover."

Christians at Rome had been faithful as they were persecuted for many years but as they became accepted and persecution stop, other challenges had begun to come in. Greek philosophy and Gnosticism had been picked up and now the old pagan beliefs and festivals were being allowed in, and the Romans and many Christian and leaders didnt see a problem with it.

So disputes arose as the bishop of Rome allowed the celebration of the Pasch or Passover to continue till the following Sunday so Christians could also celebrate Spring Equinox festival (Easter) as they had done before.

Now the danger of allowing the Christians to join in pagan solstice celebrations was overlooked as the new pagan 'converts' joined the church and swelled the numbers under the bishop of Rome. But other Christian leaders saw the danger of worship according to the old pagan festivals and tried to stop it in what came to be known as Paschal/Easter controversies. The first recorded such controversy came to be known as the Quartodeciman controversy.

Eusebius of Caesarea (Church History, V, xxiii) wrote:
"A question of no small importance arose at that time [i.e. the time of Pope Victor I, about A.D. 190]. The dioceses of all Asia, according to an ancient tradition, held that the fourteenth day of the moon [of Nisan], on which day the Jews were commanded to sacrifice the lamb, should always be observed as the feast of the life-giving pasch (epi tes tou soteriou Pascha heortes), contending that the fast ought to end on that day, whatever day of the week it might happen to be. However it was not the custom of the churches in the rest of the world to end it at this point, as they observed the practice, which from Apostolic tradition has prevailed to the present time, of terminating the fast on no other day than on that of the Resurrection of our Saviour." So the bishop of Rome began the practice of fixing the celebration of Passover for Christians on Sunday and it spread through the old areas of the Empire. Polycarp the disciple of John the Apostle who was now the bishop of Smyrna, came and confronted Anicetus, the Bishop of Rome who had allow the changes in the Passover and other changes to bring in converts. According to Irenaeus, around the 150s or 160, Polycarp visited Rome to discuss the differences that existed between the other centers of Christianity in Asia and Rome "with regard to certain things" and especially about the time of the Pasch or Passover which in Rome were now the Easter festivals.

Irenaeus says that Polycarp, the bishop of Smyrna, observed the fourteenth day of the moon, whatever day of the week that might be, following therein the tradition which he derived from John the Apostle. Irenaeus said that on certain things the two bishops speedily came to an understanding, while as to the time of the Pasch and the change to Easter, each adhered to his own custom. Polycarp following the eastern practice of celebrating Passover on the 14th of Nisan, the day of the Jewish Passover, regardless of what day of the week it fell while the bishop of Rome let it be observed on Sunday.

So the Bishop of Rome ignore the warning and continued to allow the Passover to be observed on Sunday at the pagan Spring Equinox festival connected to the "goddess of sunrise" so this is how the Pasch was change to the festival of Easter.

But not only was it just the festival but had been elevated as more pagan converts came in, they were allowed to worship on the pagan day of worship which they were used to, while Christians continued to worship on Sabbath.
A careful study of the historical records reveals that gradually, with the passing of the years, the Roman bishop tended to use his new day, Sunday, as a ploy for political supremacy over the other churches. Now the danger of allowing the Christians to join in pagan solstice celebrations was overlooked as the new pagan 'converts' joined the church and swelled the numbers under the bishop of Rome. Victor's decree was the first ecclesiastical Sunday Law of any kind, in history. The festival on Easter controversy continued, with the Eastern churches giving it stiff opposition until the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D., at which time Sunday was declared the official day for Easter observance. Then as history shows, we find that Emperor Constantine immediately followed this, the same year, with civil enactments enforcing it among the churches.

 

[Hobie]

Here is from Wikipedia where it lays it out what the conflict was about...
"Quartodecimanism (from the Vulgate Latin quarta decima in Leviticus 23:5,[1] meaning fourteenth) refers to the custom of early Christians celebrating Passover beginning with the eve of the 14th day of Nisan (or Aviv in the Hebrew Bible calendar).

The modern Jewish Passover and Feast of Unleavened Bread is seven days, starting with the sunset at the beginning of Nisan 15. Judaism reckons the beginning of each day at sunset, not at sunrise as is the ancient custom in European traditions. The biblical law regarding Passover is said to be a "perpetual ordinance" (Exodus 12:14), to some degree also applicable to proselytes (Exodus 12:19).

Regarding the chronology of Jesus, some claim the Gospel of John (e.g., 19:14, 19:31, 19:42) implies that Nisan 14 was the day that Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem and that the Synoptic Gospels instead place the execution on the first day of Unleavened Bread (Matthew 26:17). In Ancient Israel the first day of Unleavened Bread was on Nisan 15 and began a seven-day feast to the Lord (Leviticus 23:6). By the time of Christ, many customs in regard to the festival had changed, notable among them the intermixing of the two festivals in some customs and terminology. The eight days, passover and the feast of unleavened bread, were often collectively referred to as the Passover, or the Pesach Festival.[2][3]"...Quartodecimanism - Wikipedia

So the Bishop of Rome ignore the warning and continued to allow the Passover to be observed on Sunday at the pagan Spring Equinox festival, so basically this is how the Pasch was change to the festival of Easter.

Now the change from Passover for the Pasch by the bishop of Rome, there is no dispute...

Quartodecimans | Encyclopedia.com

Quartodecimanism - Oxford Reference

Passover (15): Why Jewish Passover and Easter don’t match -Chuck Missler

This is a excellent study...
"Why did POLYCARP and the Asiatic bishops refuse to accept the Roman Method of reckoning the date to celebrate the death of Christ? And why did they the Asiatic churches emphasize the DEATH
of Jesus rather and his resurrection?

The answer can be found in what is written about POLYCARP himself.

"Bishop of Smyrna, 2nd century martyr .... a disciple of St.
John, probably the Apostle. ....Polycarp journeyed to Rome as representative of the churches of Asia Minor and dealt with the Pope Anicetus (155-166) on the Quartodeciman question....
CATHOLIC ENCY. ART. 'POLYCARP ').

Did you catch it? Polycarp was a disciple of the apostle John!

Mr. LATOURETTE, writing about Irenaeus in his "HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIANITY" says, "....A native of either Syria or Minor, Isrenaeus had in his youth seen POLYCARP, Bishop of Smyrna. Polycarp, he informs us, had been instructed by the apostles and had talked with many who had seen Christ" page 131.

 

[Hobie]

Now the fact that Sabbath was supplanted by the church at Rome and even the anti-Judaism stirred up by Jewish revolts is well known and documented, and the claim that came out that it was from the 'resurrection', one but has to look at the historical record to understand..

"The author of the "Epistle of Barnabas" adduces the occurrence of the Resurrection on the first day as the reason for the observance of this "true day" (xv.). In the meantime the attitude of the Roman authorities had become intermittently hostile to the Jews; and after the rebellion under Hadrian it became a matter of vital importance for such as were not Jews to avoid exposing themselves to suspicion (Huidekoper, "Judaism at Rome"). The observance of the Sabbath was one of the most noticeable indications of Judaism. Hence, while in the first Christian century more or less regard and tolerance for the Jewish day were shown in Rome, even by non-Jewish Christians, in the second century the contrary became the rule (Justin Martyr, "Dial. cum Tryph." ii., § 28). In the East, however, less opposition was shown to Jewish institutions. Saturday and Sunday both were celebrated by "abstaining from fasting and by standing while praying" (Rheinwald, "Archäologie," § 62), In the West, especially where Roman influence dominated, Saturday was turned into a fast-day (Huidekoper, ib. pp. 343-344). The name "Sunday" is used for the first time by Justin Martyr ("Apologies," i. 67) in accommodation to a Roman nomenclature, but with reference to the circumstances that the light was created on the first day (noticed also in the Midrash; Gen. R. iii.: "ten crowns adorned the first day") and that the "light of the world" rose from the night of the grave on the first day of the week. The Christians, accordingly, were obliged to defend themselves against the charge of worshiping the sun (Tertullian, "Apologeticus," xvi.). The celebration of two days (by the Judæo-Christians?) is attested by Eusebius ("Hist. Eccl." iii. 37) and by the "Apostolic Constitutions," which advise the keeping of Saturday as a memorial of the Creation, and of Sunday, the Lord's day, in memory of the Resurrection (ii. 59).

Originally, then, Sunday and Sabbath were kept sharply distinct. But, like the Jewish Sabbath, Sunday was deemed not merely a holiday, but a holy day, and hence fasting thereon was interdicted (Tertullian, "De Corona Militis," § 3). Ease of mind (ευφροσύνη, which corresponds to "naḥat ruaḥ"; "Epistle of Barnabas," l.c.) was the proper condition for the day. One should not kneel at prayer (Irenæus, "Fragm. de Paschate"; "Apostolic Constitutions," l.c.); the standing posture, being at first a protest against mourning and ascetic rites (such as were forbidden on the Jewish Sabbath), came to be explained as suggestive of the Resurrection.".... SABBATH AND SUNDAY - JewishEncyclopedia.com

So to try to say it was changed by the disciples or their actions or the resurrection just is not true, as there was no change to the Sabbath. The first day or Sunday has nothing even after the resurrection as the disciples continued with the Sabbath as it was before and Christ tells it it would continue so you have to really bend scripture to fit Sunday as the day of worship. It just isnt there.

 

[St. SteVen]

The funny thing is likely the Hebrew and Gregorian calendars are off and no one knows what day it really is. The Sabbath could be on Tuesday. The Father probably told Jesus, "Don't stress about the Sabbath, these bone heads misplaced it a thousand years ago."
You guys think the earth was created on this day, 5784 years ago? I think they are not only off on the days, but a couple hundred years as well.

Even Adam and Eve (assuming) would have been off of God's "Holy Day" calendar.
Sabbath rest comes after six days of work. A&E were created on the sixth day.

 

[mailmandan]

The Sabbath points to the creation week. The creation week does NOT point to the Sabbath.
Sabbath was not introduced to the Israelites until Exodus chapter 16 with the collection of manna.
And there is no evidence of anyone observing the Sabbath until then. Verse 30 specifically.

I'll ask you again...
Does the evidence you brought prove that "the Lord's Day" is something other than Sunday?

Now although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the sabbath being kept before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. *Nowhere in scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.*

The word "sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.

Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: “The Israelites are to observe the sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.” (Exodus 31:16-17)

After commanding Sabbath observance in Deuteronomy 5:12-14, Moses gives the reason the sabbath was given to the nation of Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the sabbath day.” (Deuteronomy 5:15)

 

[mailmandan]

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations (under the old covenant of law) was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Whenever SDA's set out to keep the sabbath day, are they truly "keeping the sabbath?" To "keep the sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant of law involved compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If sabbath day observances are still required today, then so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So, no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath. (Exodus 35:3) Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath. (Exodus 16:29) No trading. (Amos 8:5) No marketing. (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19)

*These regulations were commanded by God to Israel. (Exodus 35:1-3)

If keeping the sabbath day is still in effect today, then why don't sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD has commanded? How can someone keep a certain law when he only keeps part of it? If the sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Now who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church or perhaps the government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant of law, no sabbatarian today can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

 

[Hobie]

Even Adam and Eve (assuming) would have been off of God's "Holy Day" calendar.
Sabbath rest comes after six days of work. A&E were created on the sixth day.

So what day did they rest with God? I think God would have talk with them on this...

 

[Hobie]

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations (under the old covenant of law) was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Whenever SDA's set out to keep the sabbath day, are they truly "keeping the sabbath?" To "keep the sabbath" as it was required in the Old Testament under the old covenant of law involved compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If sabbath day observances are still required today, then so would the burnt offerings which went along with them (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13). So, no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath. (Exodus 35:3) Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath. (Exodus 16:29) No trading. (Amos 8:5) No marketing. (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19)

*These regulations were commanded by God to Israel. (Exodus 35:1-3)

If keeping the sabbath day is still in effect today, then why don't sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the LORD has commanded? How can someone keep a certain law when he only keeps part of it? If the sabbath day laws were still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people.

Now who is going to enforce that? The Jewish synagogue? The Seventh day Adventist church or perhaps the government? Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under the old covenant of law, no sabbatarian today can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations.

Only the Ten Commandments are from God, written with His finger...

 

[Hobie]

So lets look to see how the change of Gods Law especially the fourth points out who is the Beast and his mark of authority.

In Revelation 14: 9-11, the Bible describes the terrible fate of those who receive the Mark of the Beast.

Revelation 14:9-11
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

In stark contrast, the next verse describes those who stand victorious with Jesus on Mount Zion:
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

And we see in Revelation 7: 1-3 an angel ascends from the east with the seal of the living God.
Revelation 7:1-3
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their forehead

This angel comes down from heaven and puts a seal on people's foreheads. Two classes are represented: Those who receive the mark of the beast and eventually receive the plagues. Those who keep the commandments of God, who are sealed by the angel, and do not receive the plagues. In Isaiah we find more..
Isaiah 8:16
Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

Therefore, the seal of God is contained in His law. The Bible teaches that the final issue will be over the seal of God as opposed to the mark of the beast.

The Mark of the Beast is his seal of authority, and that would be "a rule or order that it is obligatory to observe" which he has passed. This would include the Sabbath along with all the other changes he has made that he claims he has the authority to do so.

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:

So it is a change of Gods seal of authority which are his laws which have been with us since creation and were written out on the tablets of stone, by the Beast with false laws or rules of divine observance that are his seal of authority. We are charged to follow Gods truth not traditions or doctrines of men, and his commandments stand as Jesus said:

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Colossians 2:4-8 And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words: . . . beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.;

Colossians 2:18-22 Let no man beguile you of your reward. . . . Why as though living in the world, are you subject to ordinances . . . after the commandments and doctrines of men.

Notice what it says on the "tradition" and "doctrines" of man, and we've seen what those are in what we covered on this.

 

[Hobie]

And the mark of its authority which this entity claims to have and says has infallibility is given in their own statements..

"Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her;she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
---A Doctrinal Catechism by Stephen Keenan, Imprimatur by John Cardinal McCloskey, Archbishop of New York

"Distinctive of the Roman Catholic Church, Sunday Mass observance became a mark of a practicing Catholic."
--- Dictionary of the Liturgy, Rev. Jovian P. Lang, OFM., Catholic Book Publishing Co., 1989,

"The attendance at [Sunday] Mass is the mark of a practical Catholic. One who fails to attend is not worthy of the name. While all mortal sins involve great malice, there is attached to this sin a peculiar and unique malice." ---The Faith of Millions, by the Reverend John A. O'Brien, PH.D., Copyright 1938,

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. It could not have been otherwise as none in those days would have dreamed of doing anything in matters spiritual and ecclesiastical and religious without her. And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things". ---Letter to Cardinal Gibbons, November 11, 1895, from C.F. Thomas.

"The Church is above the Bible; and this transference of Sabbath observance to Sunday is proof positive of that fact. Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God." ---The Catholic Record, London, Ontario Canada, September 1, 1923

"The Pope has power to change times, to abrogate (change) laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ." --- Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop.

No one has to make claims what the sign of God or the mark of beast are. The claims have already been made by their respective parties.

 

[mailmandan]

Only the Ten Commandments are from God, written with His finger...

2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

I was once in a discussion with a SDA on a different Christian forum and all he mainly talked about obeying the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on keeping the 4th commandment) as the basis or means of obtaining and maintaining salvation. His perverted gospel culminated in "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9) He once made this statement to me below.

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

Are you in the same boat with him?

 

[Hobie]

2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

I was once in a discussion with a SDA on a different Christian forum and all he mainly talked about obeying the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on keeping the 4th commandment) as the basis or means of obtaining and maintaining salvation. His perverted gospel culminated in "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9) He once made this statement to me below.

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

Are you in the same boat with him?

You are saved by faith, not by works, but it does show who you follow, and if you follow the adversary and his mark, then you have a problem at the end as God lays out.

 

[Hobie]

Now one very important thing that most miss when reading of Creation in Genesis, is what happens during the days from First to Seventh.
To fully understand the importance of Gods Sabbath as it pertains to his authority we begin at the first day of creation.
Genesis 1:1-5
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning were the first day.

Thus the first day finished and we are told that Jesus was here with God as part of the trinity and yet he didnt make any claim for this day or mark it as a special day for man. Now contrast this with the way the seventh day is set aside:

Genesis 2:1-3
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [a] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

So the Creator of the heavens and earth rested from all his work on the seventh day and blessed it and made it holy. Was he tired after all those days of creation, of course not. He was making a exclamation point on his creation that it was his, and to drive the point home he set his standard or mark on it, the seal of his authority. This seal or mark. much as one see's on the front of stands of world leaders, was set on this planet to show his domain, lay claim, delineate his area of authority. Nothing was made on the sabbath so there was no reason for him to create it except as a gift which he had the power and authority to do. God placed His presence in the Sabbath by resting on that day. He "sanctified" the Sabbath, separated it, set it apart for holy use or purpose. He, not man, made the seventh day then made it the Sabbath and made it Holy. There were not six days of creation, but seven. On the Seventh day, the Creator ended His work, not His creating. He created the Sabbath by His rest.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Even Adam and Eve (assuming) would have been off of God's "Holy Day" calendar.
Sabbath rest comes after six days of work. A&E were created on the sixth day.

So what day did they rest with God? I think God would have talk with them on this...

That's a HUGE assumption with absolutely no biblical support.

The Pentateuch was written by Moses. Obviously after the Sabbath had been instituted.
That's why the creation account POINTS to the Sabbath. Not vice versa.

Question: If the Sabbath was observed from the beginning,
why did the Israelites need to be instructed in Exodus chapter sixteen?
AND... why was it not a law for the Israelites until Exodus 20?

 

[St. SteVen]

Only the Ten Commandments are from God, written with His finger...

That was the first set that Moses destroyed.
Where did the second set come from?

 

[St. SteVen]

And what was the 'day of rest', if not the Sabbath made for man for reflection, enjoyment and worship for God’s people. It comes from where, well the seventh day of the creation week, when God stopped His work and took time to rest and savor what He had made.

That's a charming thought, but your Sabbath doctrine was not "wrested" from reality. - LOL

 

[Hobie]

St. SteVen said:
Even Adam and Eve (assuming) would have been off of God's "Holy Day" calendar.
Sabbath rest comes after six days of work. A&E were created on the sixth day.

That's a HUGE assumption with absolutely no biblical support.

The Pentateuch was written by Moses. Obviously after the Sabbath had been instituted.
That's why the creation account POINTS to the Sabbath. Not vice versa.

Question: If the Sabbath was observed from the beginning,
why did the Israelites need to be instructed in Exodus chapter sixteen?
AND... why was it not a law for the Israelites until Exodus 20?

Do you think God walked with them and didnt speak to them, I think not..
Genesis 3:8
And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.

As for your question, look how far off we have gone with 'traditions' of man today, and they had been slaves in Egypt with their idol worship for years. But we see that there was those who did follow after Adam and Eve and the Bible shows it..

Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

 

[Hobie]

That's a charming thought, but your Sabbath doctrine was not "wrested" from reality. - LOL

I think the Bible is clear and not just one part here and there, but throughout..
1 John 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

f you didn't know then it would be different...
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

But the Bible is crystal clear on this as we see. When we unknowingly make a honest mistake, Gods grace is sufficient and He winks at our ignorance. But when we knowingly do it...