Paul: The Law is a Ministration of Death, 2 Cor. 3:7.

[Mikey-for-sure]

When Jesus fulfilled the law all of the law was fulfilled. This is why the scripture says, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for those that believe" Romans 10:4. If there is no law, there is no sin, Romans 4:15. We establish the law by being "In Christ". God sees his people as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

one verse up. It tells you how to read it.

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Till all, not just the law, that was prophesied about Jesus and as King of the New Earth and the New Heavens

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Emulating Bob Estey would get me to the heights of heaven, but since I am mediocre, I would be on the bottom of Bob's classroom bell curve, but statistically I would still be in the house of God I figure. Emulating you, on the other hand, with the least of heaven in mind, would I the mediocre one make it?

19(a)Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
(b)but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So if my thoughts say I am holy as I am watching some TV channel and I linger on it's various blasphemies am I still righteous in spirit.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Last but no least, the psalms which proclaim the messiah.

Psalm 111
7The works of his hands are verity and judgment;all his commandments are sure.
8They stand fast for ever and ever,and are done in truth and uprightness.

 

[Robert Pate]

one verse up. It tells you how to read it.

17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Till all, not just the law, that was prophesied about Jesus and as King of the New Earth and the New Heavens

18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Emulating Bob Estey would get me to the heights of heaven, but since I am mediocre, I would be on the bottom of Bob's classroom bell curve, but statistically I would still be in the house of God I figure. Emulating you, on the other hand, with the least of heaven in mind, would I the mediocre one make it?

19(a)Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
(b)but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So if my thoughts say I am holy as I am watching some TV channel and I linger on it's various blasphemies am I still righteous in spirit.

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Last but no least, the psalms which proclaim the messiah.

Psalm 111
7The works of his hands are verity and judgment;all his commandments are sure.
8They stand fast for ever and ever,and are done in truth and uprightness.

Mikey you are a concern. It appears that you don't believe the Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of all things. In the Gospel we are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In the judgment if you are not found to be in him you will perish.

 

[Behold]

I would also point out Paul's word in Hebrews chapter 11, wherein Paul asserts that God is granting justification to those who know that God exists and that he is a rewarder of those who seek him. That's it. 1) know God exists, and 2) know him as one who rewards those who seek him.

You are teaching a false gospel.
Galatians 1:8
Don't do that.

God does not "grant" justification, based on seeking God, or doing a history search for the "historical Jesus".

God does not "grant" anything.
God offers the Gift of Salvation, to "all who BELIEVE in Jesus".

To do that, you have to first HEAR the Gospel....as 'faith comes by HEARING" the word of God.

God accepts FAITH to Justify.
God requires FAITH to impute Righteousess.

Listen..

Religion is man seeking God, and man trying to be one.

CHRISTianity, is God coming down here to give you what He requires you to have, so that He can accept you, and that is strictly based on Christ's Cross.

John 14:6

 

[St. SteVen]

Emulating Bob Estey would get me to the heights of heaven, but since I am mediocre, I would be on the bottom of Bob's classroom bell curve, but statistically I would still be in the house of God I figure.

Wow Bob, Did you see this? Kudos.
@Bob Estey

 

[Bob Estey]

Emulating Bob Estey would get me to the heights of heaven, but since I am mediocre, I would be on the bottom of Bob's classroom bell curve, but statistically I would still be in the house of God I figure. Emulating you, on the other hand, with the least of heaven in mind, would I the mediocre one make it?

If you rob a bank, you'll go to prison. Am I to blame for that?

 

[Bob Estey]

Wow Bob, Did you see this? Kudos.
@Bob Estey

No, I didn't.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You are teaching a false gospel.

Is your argument with me or with Paul? Is it difficult to understand what he said?

God does not "grant" justification, based on seeking God, or doing a history search for the "historical Jesus".

Are you sure about that? Have you never read, "seek and you shall find?"

God does not "grant" anything.

He grants justification. Consider Paul's quote of Genesis.

Romans 4
9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.”

Accounted, credited, granted it's all the same thing.

God offers the Gift of Salvation, to "all who BELIEVE in Jesus".

I respectfully disagree. God doesn't offer salvation. He chooses whom to save, and faith is evidence of those whom he chose. Remember, faith is evidence.

To do that, you have to first HEAR the Gospel....as 'faith comes by HEARING" the word of God.

Again, I respectfully disagree with you oft incorrect interpretation of that verse. Paul isn't saying that "faith comes by hearing" as many translations have it. No. Paul just argued that Israel heard the message but didn't believe the message they heard. Therefore, Paul concludes "faith must accompany the hearing."

God accepts FAITH to Justify.
God requires FAITH to impute Righteousess.

You are placing the conditions on the wrong person. In your view, we must meet the conditions of salvation, which Paul argues is like wages. But in reality, God meets the conditions of our salvation, which is why salvation is by grace.

 

[Behold]

Is your argument with me or with Paul? Is it difficult to understand what he said?

There is a very distinct difference between what He is teaching, and how you portray it.

Are you sure about that? Have you never read, "seek and you shall find?"

Yes, and ive read "take a little wine for your stomach's sake".

Lots of stuff in that bible.

Ive read "may God recompense to Him, according to His deeds"...

So, sure, i can quote lots of verses.

And?

He grants justification. Consider Paul's quote of Genesis.

The Cross is all that God offers to the World as God's Justification.

See John 3:16
See John 14:6

Romans 4
9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “Faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.”

His faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness.

Paul teaches that "Abraham is the Father of our FAITH".

"without Faith, its impossible to please God".

"Justification by Faith" "without works" "without deeds of the Law".

It's "GRACE... through FAITH"

Accounted, credited, granted it's all the same thing.

Bui you left out HOW..

You left out JESUS.

You left out John 14:6

Its The Cross, you left out...
Understand yet @CadyandZoe

So, when you leave that out of God's Justification while teaching your GOSPEL.... you become this one.

Galatians 1:8

I respectfully disagree. God doesn't offer salvation. He chooses whom to save

That's John Calvin's "Limited Atonement" = theological vomit.
Try not to return to it.

Paul concludes "faith must accompany the hearing."

Yes, "FAITH comes by hearing".

You have to hear the message, to know the message, so that you can then believe it.

A.) common sense

"By HEARING... the message, The Gospel...."Faith Comes", or it doesn't, as some hear it, and wont have it.

Acts 28:28

You are placing the conditions on the wrong person. In your view, we must meet the conditions of salvation,

The condition required for you to be saved is to be a sinner.

"All have sinned".

Therefore all qualify for Redemption that is the Blood Atonement.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

Mikey you are a concern. It appears that you don't believe the Gospel. In the Gospel Jesus is the end and the fulfillment of all things. In the Gospel we are complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In the judgment if you are not found to be in him you will perish.

Robert, thank you for your concern, :) but it is not I who is negating the words of God. It is not I who overrides the instruction of the apostle. I would never insinuate the Messiah would contradict God who sent him. Whatever gospel you are preaching it is some doctrine the commandments of men.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

If you rob a bank, you'll go to prison. Am I to blame for that?

Yeah, I'm not a calvinist either?

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

Wow Bob, Did you see this? Kudos.
@Bob Estey

Just saying compared to Robert's logic. :) Hope he didn't mind being used as an example.

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert, thank you for your concern, :) but it is not I who is negating the words of God. It is not I who overrides the instruction of the apostle. I would never insinuate the Messiah would contradict God who sent him. Whatever gospel you are preaching it is some doctrine the commandments of men.

The Gospel that I preach is the same Gospel that Jesus gave to Paul, Galatians 1:11-12. It is the Gospel that justifies ungodly sinners, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

 

[Bob Estey]

Yeah, I'm not a calvinist either?

I'm trying to remember what a Calvinist is.

 

[ChristisGod]

Let me give it a shot:

As I said, we don't want to sin, because that brings trouble into our lives, so we have to figure out what sin is.

The most general of all statements is in Matthew 22:34-40, where we learn the two great commandments. Everything stems from these.

But they need definition. The Ten Commandments go a long ways towards defining the two great commandments.

Remember that Jesus said this, "You know the commandments: `Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother." Luke 18:20 RSV

The Lord might use different strategies with different people. The strategy he used on me was this:

But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:33

In other words, he showed me my sins, one by one, over a period of time, and he showed me that when I repented of my sin, I had peace. That can be conveyed in this verse:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matthew 4:17 RSV

People refuse to believe this, but yes, we can have heaven right now, I believe. All we have to do is repent of our sin. I'm not saying it's easy, but it beats a life of sin.

basic truth 101- people sin because they want to sin, they desire to sin. the question is what is the greater desire self of Christ ?

hope this helps!!!

 

[ChristisGod]

I'm trying to remember what a Calvinist is.

think of a flower names tulip
think of God damning and predestining the majority of mankind to hell without ever having a choice to be saved
think of Gods sovereignty in this way- he predetermined everything that comes to pass including every evil act for his glory including the rape and murder of ones spouse.

is that enough to make you throw up or do you need more ?

 

[St. SteVen]

think of a flower names tulip
think of God damning and predestining the majority of mankind to hell without ever having a choice to be saved
think of Gods sovereignty in this way- he predetermined everything that comes to pass including every evil act for his glory including the rape and murder of ones spouse.

is that enough to make you throw up or do you need more ?

Makes Christian Universalism seem sensible. - LOL (shameless promotion)
You should give Bob the TULIP acronym spelled out. (that would help)

 

[St. SteVen]

Bob Estey said:
No one said it's easy. It still beats a life of sin, doesn't it?

Is this your "proof-text" for this idea?
(cart before the horse?)
Do you have to be UNDER a law to transgress it? (yes) See Romans 5:13

1 John 3:4 KJV
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:
for sin is the transgression of the law.

Imagine being pulled over in your car while driving in the state of Nevada.
(I know that would never happen to you, so try to imagine it) - LOL
But the police officer was from the state of California. Then he proceeded to write you a ticket
for violating a California law for something that was not against the law in Nevada?
Would you pay the fine or question it?

How is this any different than a Christian observing the Jewish Sabbath?
Is that Christian free to do that? Yes, of course. Is that same Christian right to criticize
other Christians for NOT observing the Jewish Sabbath? (nope)

Is the Jewish Sabbath a biblical law? Yes, of course. Is it for Christians? (nope)

@ChristisGod

 

[ChristisGod]

Makes Christian Universalism seem sensible. - LOL (shameless promotion)
You should give Bob the TULIP acronym spelled out. (that would help)

Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P. Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin) Unconditional Election Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement) Irresistible Grace Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

@Bob Estey

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

The Gospel that I preach is the same Gospel that Jesus gave to Paul, Galatians 1:11-12. It is the Gospel that justifies ungodly sinners, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

Concerning Galatians 1:11-12
Paul was a pharisee that hunted Christians and produced the first martyr. He was living well off the blood of Christ followers but bang he was made into an apostle. Truly a miraculous testimonial. Is there a similar testimonial on your part you wish to share.

A few verses up, the Giver of Grace is identified as the of Jesus and that of Paul for ever and ever. The law was given to us as part of that Grace.

Galatians 1:3Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: 5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Galatians 1: 8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Here is a Pauline quote.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Once again, the law is an indicator of works not that the law is void or negated. Faith and works are not in a zero sum game.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Is the law good or outdated or something else or are you preaching a different gospel? I am so confused.

 

[St. SteVen]

Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P. Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin) Unconditional Election Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement) Irresistible Grace Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

@Bob Estey

Thanks.
So, kinda like this?

T = Total depravity
U = Unconditional election
L = Limited atonement
I = Irresistible grace
P = Perseverance of the saints