Paul: The Law is a Ministration of Death, 2 Cor. 3:7.

[Robert Pate]

The words "Law" and "Religion" basically mean the same thing. When one is doing their religion, they are doing the law. When one is doing the law they are doing their religion. Law and religion are things that we do. Paul said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what we do) no flesh will be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin, Romans 3:20. What Paul is saying is that your religion, (what you do) is worthless. The law does not save, nor does the law justify. This is very offensive to people that are religious because they are the ones that practice religion and law.

This is why Paul said, "The letter (law) kills, but the Spirit gives life" 2 Corinthians 5:6. The Spirit is the Gospel. The law is a ministration of death, 2 Corinthians 3:7, for those who believe that they will be saved and justified by the law or their religion. If one believes that they will be saved because of their religion (what they do) they are lost. We are saved and justified by what Jesus did, not by what we do. We are the sinners, Jesus is the savior. Jesus is the one that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. He does this by his life, death and resurrection.

We are saved and justified by faith alone, because we are saved and justified by Christ alone. This is true because we are still sinners, saved sinners. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him and because of him. All that are in Christ are waiting for the redemption of their bodies, Romans 8:23. As long as we are in these Adamic bodies, we are corrupt and need to be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:53-54.

Many believe that to live by the law and the commandments pleases God. This is not true. The only thing that pleases God is his Son Jesus Christ and our faith in him. Paul said, "The law works wrath" Romans 4:15. The reason that the law works wrath is because the law (religion) is not of faith. All of the religious law keeping Pharisees went to hell. In the 23rd chapter of Matthew Jesus called them every name in the book, the worst one was "Sons of hell". Those that live by law and religion are under a curse, Galatians 3:10. "Cursed is everyone that does not continue to do all of the things written in the book of the law". There are over 2,000 laws in the book of the law.

 

[Bob Estey]

The words "Law" and "Religion" basically mean the same thing. When one is doing their religion, they are doing the law. When one is doing the law they are doing their religion. Law and religion are things that we do. Paul said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what we do) no flesh will be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin, Romans 3:20. What Paul is saying is that your religion, (what you do) is worthless. The law does not save, nor does the law justify. This is very offensive to people that are religious because they are the ones that practice religion and law.

This is why Paul said, "The letter (law) kills, but the Spirit gives life" 2 Corinthians 5:6. The Spirit is the Gospel. The law is a ministration of death, 2 Corinthians 3:7, for those who believe that they will be saved and justified by the law or their religion. If one believes that they will be saved because of their religion (what they do) they are lost. We are saved and justified by what Jesus did, not by what we do. We are the sinners, Jesus is the savior. Jesus is the one that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. He does this by his life, death and resurrection.

We are saved and justified by faith alone, because we are saved and justified by Christ alone. This is true because we are still sinners, saved sinners. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him and because of him. All that are in Christ are waiting for the redemption of their bodies, Romans 8:23. As long as we are in these Adamic bodies, we are corrupt and need to be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:53-54.

Many believe that to live by the law and the commandments pleases God. This is not true. The only thing that pleases God is his Son Jesus Christ and our faith in him. Paul said, "The law works wrath" Romans 4:15. The reason that the law works wrath is because the law (religion) is not of faith. All of the religious law keeping Pharisees went to hell. In the 23rd chapter of Matthew Jesus called them every name in the book, the worst one was "Sons of hell". Those that live by law and religion are under a curse, Galatians 3:10. "Cursed is everyone that does not continue to do all of the things written in the book of the law". There are over 2,000 laws in the book of the law.

I think the purpose of the law was to keep us out of trouble. For example, if you rob a bank, you'll probably go to prison for a long time. Therefore, the Lord told us not to steal. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17).

 

[Robert Pate]

I think the purpose of the law was to keep us out of trouble. For example, if you rob a bank, you'll probably go to prison for a long time. Therefore, the Lord told us not to steal. Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17).

Having fulfilled it, he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. He nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

I hate to tell you this. The law promotes sin, Romans 7:7-10. The more law, the more sin.

 

[Bob Estey]

Having fulfilled it, he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. He nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

I hate to tell you this. The law promotes sin, Romans 7:7-10. The more law, the more sin.

Having fulfilled the law, he abolished it? He said he did not come to abolish the law.

The law promotes sin? The law keeps us out of trouble.

 

[Robert Pate]

Having fulfilled the law, he abolished it? He said he did not come to abolish the law.

The law promotes sin? The law keeps us out of trouble.

The Holy Spirit not the law is the Christians guide and keeper, John 16:13. That is unless you are a Pharisee. His mission was not to abolish the law, even though he did, but only for believers. Unbelievers are under the law and will be judged by it.

Paul said, "But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (Lust) For without the law sin was dead" Romans 7:8. It is the law that promotes sin.

 

[Bob Estey]

The Holy Spirit not the law is the Christians guide and keeper, John 16:13. That is unless you are a Pharisee. His mission was not to abolish the law, even though he did, but only for believers. Unbelievers are under the law and will be judged by it.

Paul said, "But sin taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (Lust) For without the law sin was dead" Romans 7:8. It is the law that promotes sin.

But the Holy Spirit expects us to obey the two great commandments.

 

[Robert Pate]

But the Holy Spirit expects us to obey the two great commandments.

What are the two great commandments?

 

[Bob Estey]

What are the two great commandments?

That you should love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. The Ten Commandments help define these.

 

[MatthewG]

The Law is good, and leads a person to Christ, @Bob Estey. The one who did what we could never perfectly do, nor the Jewish people of his time.

Paul writing to Timothy says,

 

[Bob Estey]

The Law is good, and leads a person to Christ, @Bob Estey. The one who did what we could never perfectly do, nor the Jewish people of his time.

Paul writing to Timothy says,
View attachment 36140
View attachment 36141

Yes, I believe the Lord gave us the law as a gift, to show us the way.

 

[St. SteVen]

Jesus said he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17).

That's a common misquote, and misunderstanding. IMO

Compare the reading in the Beatitudes to what Jesus said after his resurrection.
Jesus did not come to abolish the Books of the Law, or the Books of the Prophets,
or the Psalms, but to fulfill what had been prophesied about him.

Matthew 5:17 NIV
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;
I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you:
Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, I believe the Lord gave us the law as a gift, to show us the way.

Amen.

I wouldnt know what sin was if I never heard about the Law. Praise God for Jesus fulfilling it. He is the one we look to now, and abide in. He will keep us from wanting to do and cause trouble, if we abide in him.

This is a great lesson he taught his chosen disicples (matthew 10.)

 

[St. SteVen]

Interesting discussion going here. But much miscommunication due to a lack of good definitions of terms.
I suggest you both check out this topic. (shameless self-promotion)

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

Having fulfilled it, he abolished it, Ephesians 2:15. He nailed it to his cross, Colossians 2:14.

I hate to tell you this. The law promotes sin, Romans 7:7-10. The more law, the more sin.

This is true. IMO
But, Bob doesn't follow what you are saying. So he slams you good.

Having fulfilled the law, he abolished it? He said he did not come to abolish the law.

The law promotes sin? The law keeps us out of trouble.

I disagree, but that was a perfect response to Robert. Slam dunk!

But the Holy Spirit expects us to obey the two great commandments.

The Holy Spirit?

That you should love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. The Ten Commandments help define these.

Good. But this is God's law.
The Ten were given only to the Israelites through Moses.

Yes, I believe the Lord gave us the law as a gift, to show us the way.

A gift? Did you read the OP? Or the topic title. The "ministration of death" is a gift? Wow.

 

[Bob Estey]

That's a common misquote, and misunderstanding. IMO

Compare the reading in the Beatitudes to what Jesus said after his resurrection.
Jesus did not come to abolish the Books of the Law, or the Books of the Prophets,
or the Psalms, but to fulfill what had been prophesied about him.

Matthew 5:17 NIV
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets;
I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Luke 24:44 NIV
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you:
Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

I just try to do what the Bible tells me to do.

 

[Robert Pate]

That you should love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. The Ten Commandments help define these.

And you think that you are doing that? The Pharisees thought that they were able to keep the law also, they all went to hell, Romans 3:20.

 

[Bob Estey]

And you think that you are doing that? The Pharisees thought that they were able to keep the law also, they all went to hell, Romans 3:20.

The Pharisees made up their own law.

 

[Robert Pate]

The Pharisees made up their own law.

No they didn't. Where does it say that? They were scholars of the Mosiac law. The Torah was composed of over 600 laws and rules that they had taken from the Old Testament. There are actually more than 2,000 laws in the Old Testament. Are you keeping all of them? Sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[Bob Estey]

No they didn't. Where does it say that? They were scholars of the Mosiac law. The Torah was composed of over 600 laws and rules that they had taken from the Old Testament. There are actually more than 2,000 laws in the Old Testament. Are you keeping all of them? Sin is the transgression of the law.

Not everything was a law. There were statutes, decrees, and ordinances. We are only concerned with the commandments - the law.

 

[St. SteVen]

I just try to do what the Bible tells me to do.

Yup.
You're a good guy, Bob. I know you mean well.
However, I do see many fine folks have a misunderstanding about Matthew 5:17, and the law in general.
The topic starter is sharing some discoveries I made decades ago in debate with SDAs and others about the law.
Best to pay attention. - God bless.

The law, the Law, God's law, and Christ's law - four different things.
Do you know the difference?

 

[St. SteVen]

No they didn't. Where does it say that? They were scholars of the Mosiac law. The Torah was composed of over 600 laws and rules that they had taken from the Old Testament. There are actually more than 2,000 laws in the Old Testament. Are you keeping all of them? Sin is the transgression of the law.

I like the direction you are going, but you should get your facts straight if you want to be taken seriously.

What are the 613 commandments in the Old Testament Law? | GotQuestions.org

What are the 613 commandments in the Old Testament Law? Are there really 613 commands in the Mosaic Law?

www.gotquestions.org

"In ancient times, when the people of Israel lived in their homeland, they created their own law:
the law of the Torah and the law of the Mishna and the Talmud"
Source:

Israeli law | Legal System & Rights Protection

Israeli law, the legal practices and institutions of modern Israel. In ancient times, when the people of Israel lived in their homeland, they created their own law: the law of the Torah and the law of the Mishna and the Talmud (see Torah; Mishna). Then came the separation of land and people for

www.britannica.com