The Rapture is Post-trib

[Spiritual Israelite]

The dead in Christ are raised up on the Last Day of the Gentiles, When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in part of Israel will have it's eyes opened as God turns His attention to His CHOSEN. Jacob worked 7 more years for the CHOSEN bride.

All of God's people, Jew and Gentiile, are His chosen. You need to read the New Testament.

Only in your mind.
1 Cor 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

When the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, when the Lord Himself comes for the Church, the harvest is over. Then we have 144,000 first fruits of the next harvest. When Jesus comes at the 6th seal, they that are Christs at His coming will be in the harvest. It's pretty simple

LOL. What Paul wrote is "pretty simple", but what you wrote is not simple at all. It's complete convoluted nonsense. Paul indicated that Christ Himself is the firstfruits. He's not referring to the 144,000 there.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

When you actually look at the context, you can see that Paul was saying Christ Himself is "the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep". That goes along with other scripture like this:

Acts 26:23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

This says that the Messiah, Jesus, was "the first to rise from the dead". Yet, Lazarus and others rose from the dead before He did. So, what does this mean? It means He was the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality. That is the context of the 1 Cor 15 passage as well. Paul indicated that next in order to be resurrected unto bodily immortality are "they that are Christ's at his coming". That's it. He doesn't mention any other resurrection. There's Christ resurrection itself and then all who belong to Him at His coming will be resurrected.

There will be no other resurrection of believers at any other time. The resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur at His second coming AFTER the tribulation. Trying to say there will be any other resurrection of believers is a case of adding things to scripture that aren't taught anywhere and it's a case of contradicting what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23.

 

[The Light]

LOL. What Paul wrote is "pretty simple", but what you wrote is not simple at all. It's complete convoluted nonsense. Paul indicated that Christ Himself is the firstfruits. He's not referring to the 144,000 there.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

When you actually look at the context, you can see that Paul was saying Christ Himself is "the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep". That goes along with other scripture like this:

Acts 26:23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

This says that the Messiah, Jesus, was "the first to rise from the dead". Yet, Lazarus and others rose from the dead before He did. So, what does this mean? It means He was the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality. That is the context of the 1 Cor 15 passage as well. Paul indicated that next in order to be resurrected unto bodily immortality are "they that are Christ's at his coming". That's it. He doesn't mention any other resurrection. There's Christ resurrection itself and then all who belong to Him at His coming will be resurrected.

There will be no other resurrection of believers at any other time. The resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur at His second coming AFTER the tribulation. Trying to say there will be any other resurrection of believers is a case of adding things to scripture that aren't taught anywhere and it's a case of contradicting what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23.

I realize you are unable to understand that He comes when you think not. But surely you can grasp Daniel 12:1-2. Or not.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I realize you are unable to understand that He comes when you think not. But surely you can grasp Daniel 12:1-2. Or not.

Weak response that doesn't address anything I said. Is this all you have to offer?

 

[The Light]

Weak response that doesn't address anything I said. Is this all you have to offer?

Actually, I addressed your question.

Since @Davy ALWAYS runs scared when we start talking scripture, maybe you could answer the question I asked him. Until I understand what you believe it is really impossible to fully address your statements.

Can you Identify in the book of Revelation when the tribulation is over. Chapter and verse?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Actually, I addressed your question.

Which question? I'm saying that you didn't address anything I said in post #281, which is true.

Since @Davy ALWAYS runs scared when we start talking scripture, maybe you could answer the question I asked him. Until I understand what you believe it is really impossible to fully address your statements.

My comments were very straightforward in post #281. There is no reason why you can't address them. I think you know that you can't refute anything I said there, so you decided to reply with meaningless nonsense instead.

Can you Identify in the book of Revelation when the tribulation is over. Chapter and verse?

Define what exactly you think "the tribulation" is and then I'll answer the question. I can't answer it without knowing that.

 

[The Light]

All of God's people, Jew and Gentiile, are His chosen. You need to read the New Testament.


LOL. What Paul wrote is "pretty simple", but what you wrote is not simple at all. It's complete convoluted nonsense. Paul indicated that Christ Himself is the firstfruits. He's not referring to the 144,000 there.

1 Corinthians 15:20 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

When you actually look at the context, you can see that Paul was saying Christ Himself is "the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep". That goes along with other scripture like this:

Acts 26:23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”

This says that the Messiah, Jesus, was "the first to rise from the dead". Yet, Lazarus and others rose from the dead before He did. So, what does this mean? It means He was the first to rise from the dead unto bodily immortality. That is the context of the 1 Cor 15 passage as well. Paul indicated that next in order to be resurrected unto bodily immortality are "they that are Christ's at his coming". That's it. He doesn't mention any other resurrection. There's Christ resurrection itself and then all who belong to Him at His coming will be resurrected.

I agree. Christ rises from the dead as first fruits and then they that are Christs at His coming are caught up. Then we have 144,000 first fruits and then they that are Christs at His coming are caught up. Simple order. First fruits and then they that are Christs at His coming.

There will be no other resurrection of believers at any other time. The resurrection of the dead in Christ will occur at His second coming AFTER the tribulation. Trying to say there will be any other resurrection of believers is a case of adding things to scripture that aren't taught anywhere and it's a case of contradicting what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15:20-23.

You'll have to identify when the tribulation is.

 

[The Light]

Define what exactly you think "the tribulation" is and then I'll answer the question. I can't answer it without knowing that.

"IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days"

 

[The Light]

Define what exactly you think "the tribulation" is and then I'll answer the question. I can't answer it without knowing that.

I responded.............IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days. That is the tribulation.

So are you just like @Davy and afraid to respond when asked a direct scriptural question?

Can you Identify in the book of Revelation when the tribulation is over. Chapter and verse?

 

[Davy]

It seems Daniel 12 shows that you are trying to INSERT a false time marker regarding the LAST DAY.

You shouldn't throw out statements like the above without giving Biblical proof to back it up. So now it is me that is LOL at you!

Daniel 12 agrees with the rest of the Book of Daniel, and with Christ's Olivet discourse SIGNS, and of course His Book of Revelation SIGNS. It's simply you that has failed to understand all that.

So when is the last day in the book of revelation? I highly suspect that you do not know.

The LAST DAY in Christ's Book of Revelation is the SAME Last Day He said it was in The Gospel Books, the day of the future resurrection (John 6:44).

Or maybe you don't think different Books of God's Word agree with each other about the same event? If you believe that, then it means you would believe God's Word is in error, and not God inspired via The Holy Spirit. It would mean your Faith is in doubt.

The way Christ's Book of Revelation points to that "last day" of John 6:44 is with the resurrection of Rev.20. And that's just one of the ways. The John 5:28-29 events confirm that resurrection will happen on the day of Christ's future return also, along with the "resurrection of damnation".

Even in 2 Thessalonians 2:8 reveals Christ's coming is what will reveal "that Wicked" one, and destroy him with the brightness of Christ's coming. That HAS TO MEAN the LAST DAY when that "man of sin" is destroyed by Christ's future coming...

2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
KJV

On the 6th Vial, Lord Jesus said He comes "as a thief", speaking to His Church that is still on earth. Then the 7th Vial happens and the time of His Wrath upon the wicked is poured out, along with the battle of Armageddon that happens on the last day of this world.

In 1 Thess.5, Apostle Paul taught that the "sudden destruction" event will come upon the wicked on that same "day of the Lord" that Jesus pointed to that will come "as a thief in the night". Likewise in 2 Peter 3:10-13, Apostle Paul showed that "day of the Lord" that will come "as a thief" is also the very last day of this present world, because he says all of man's works will be burned up on that day by God's consuming fire. That means the "man of sin" and his beast kingdom over all nations for the end will be BURNED UP! NO MORE! when that "day of the Lord" event happens.

But man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory instead wrongly teaches that "day of the Lord" happens PRIOR to the "great tribulation", which is a flat LIE against God's Word!

Easy Peasy when one heeds God's Word instead of man's word.

 

[The Light]

You shouldn't throw out statements like the above without giving Biblical proof to back it up. So now it is me that is LOL at you!

I gave Biblical proof. Daniel 12:1-2

Daniel 12 agrees with the rest of the Book of Daniel, and with Christ's Olivet discourse SIGNS, and of course His Book of Revelation SIGNS. It's simply you that has failed to understand all that.

Straw man.

The way Christ's Book of Revelation points to that "last day" of John 6:44 is with the resurrection of Rev.20. And that's just one of the ways. The John 5:28-29 events confirm that resurrection will happen on the day of Christ's future return also, along with the "resurrection of damnation".

You should probably study Daniel 12:1-2.

Even in 2 Thessalonians 2:8 reveals Christ's coming is what will reveal "that Wicked" one, and destroy him with the brightness of Christ's coming. That HAS TO MEAN the LAST DAY when that "man of sin" is destroyed by Christ's future coming...

2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
KJV

2 Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

On the 6th Vial, Lord Jesus said He comes "as a thief", speaking to His Church that is still on earth.

So you think that the Church is on earth at the 6th vial? The Church leaves the earth before the 1st seal is opened. There is not even the slightest of chances that the Church will be on earth at the 6th vial. The 6th vial takes place during the wrath of God.

1 Thes 5
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

It amazes me how little you understand. How could it be possible for the Church to be one earth when we are not appointed to wrath?

Then the 7th Vial happens and the time of His Wrath upon the wicked is poured out, along with the battle of Armageddon that happens on the last day of this world.

Revelation 15
And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

In 1 Thess.5, Apostle Paul taught that the "sudden destruction" event will come upon the wicked on that same "day of the Lord" that Jesus pointed to that will come "as a thief in the night". Likewise in 2 Peter 3:10-13, Apostle Paul showed that "day of the Lord" that will come "as a thief" is also the very last day of this present world, because he says all of man's works will be burned up on that day by God's consuming fire. That means the "man of sin" and his beast kingdom over all nations for the end will be BURNED UP! NO MORE! when that "day of the Lord" event happens.

So you know these things and still don't understand.
2 Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

But man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory instead wrongly teaches that "day of the Lord" happens PRIOR to the "great tribulation", which is a flat LIE against God's Word!

I have NEVER run across anyone that understand that the Lord Himself comes before the seals are opened that claim that the "day of the Lord" happens PRIOR to the "great tribulation"

Who teaches you these false things? In fact, I have never seen anyone that thinks the day of the Lord happens before the great tribulation.

Easy Peasy when one heeds God's Word instead of man's word.

What?

You can't even Identify in the book of Revelation when the tribulation is over. Chapter and verse?

 

[David in NJ]

Daniel chapter 12 only speaks of Post-Trib = same as JESUS spoke and the Apostles

The lie of pre-trib blinds you to this.

 

[The Light]

Daniel chapter 12 only speaks of Post-Trib = same as JESUS spoke and the Apostles

The lie of pre-trib blinds you to this.

And where in the book of Revelation does this Post tribulation rapture take place? Chapter and verse?

 

[ewq1938]

And where in the book of Revelation does this Post tribulation rapture take place? Chapter and verse?

Rev 14 is the only time the rapture is described. It is the first harvest by the son of man who is Jesus. Other books of the bible reveal this as happening post-trib. Not one time is there a Pre-trib rapture.

 

[David in NJ]

And where in the book of Revelation does this Post tribulation rapture take place? Chapter and verse?

Oh, its in there = we all learn/receive the same Way = pray, read and believe.

KEY = Revelation ch6, ch19 and ch20

 

[The Light]

Oh, its in there = we all learn/receive the same Way = pray, read and believe.

KEY = Revelation ch6, ch19 and ch20

Revelation 6 has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Revelation 19 and 20. Which is proof you do not understand the book of Revelation nor end times.

 

[The Light]

Rev 14 is the only time the rapture is described. It is the first harvest by the son of man who is Jesus. Other books of the bible reveal this as happening post-trib. Not one time is there a Pre-trib rapture.

Revelation 14 is a post trib rapture BEFORE the wrath of God. However, it is not the Church that is being raptured.

 

[David in NJ]

Revelation 6 has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Revelation 19 and 20. Which is proof you do not understand the book of Revelation nor end times.

Again you fail to SEE what God has spoken.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer,
until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[The Light]

Again you fail to SEE what God has spoken.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer,
until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us
when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

Revelation 6 has nothing whatsoever to do with Revelation 19 and 20!

 

[Davy]

Revelation 6 has nothing whatsoever to do with Revelation 19 and 20!

LOL at Biblical ignorance!

Rev.6 covers all... the events of the very end, including the day of Christ's future coming to pour out His cup of wrath upon the wicked, which is a 7th Vial event by the way. That is what His coming on a white horse wielding a sharp sword out of His mouth per Rev.19, is about.

So why don't you just admit it, you don't read The New Testament, and could care less about it, but are just here to push Judaizer doctrines against The New Testament Scriptures.

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 14 is a post trib rapture BEFORE the wrath of God. However, it is not the Church that is being raptured.

It is the church being raptured. The rapture only happens once, and the second coming only happens once, at almost the same time.