The 144,000 before God at the end.

[Zao is life]

You are confusing the Noah story which is the Church safely sealed in the ark 6 days before the flood with the story of Lot who left Sodom the same day the flood came.

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, in the seventeenth day of the month, in this day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of the heavens were opened up. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
In this same day, Noah and Shem and Ham and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, entered into the ark. -- Gen 7:11-13

Read it again. God told Noah seven days beforehand that he must get himself and all the animals into the ark. It was not until the 7th day that Noah entered the ark - the day the flood waters were opened:

1 And the LORD said to Noah, You and all your house come into the ark, for I have seen you righteous before Me in this generation.
2 You shall take with you every clean animal by sevens, the male and female. And take two of the animals that are not clean, the male and female.
3 Also take of the fowls of the air by sevens, the male and the female, to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
4 For in seven more days I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights. And I will destroy from off the face of the earth every living thing that I have made.
5 And Noah did according to all that the LORD commanded him.
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
7 And Noah went in. And his sons and his wife and his sons' wives went in with him into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
8 Of the clean animals, and of the animals that were not clean, and of the fowls, and of everything that creeps on the earth,
9 two by two they went in to Noah into the ark, male and female, as God had commanded Noah.
10 And it happened after seven days that the waters of the flood came into being on the earth.

I suppose you believe that Noah got all the animals into the ark on the same day that the flood came?

It took seven days. And on the 7th day, Noah obeyed the final part of the command - got himself and his family into the ark:

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, in the seventeenth day of the month, in this day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of the heavens were opened up. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
In this same day, Noah and Shem and Ham and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, entered into the ark. -- Gen 7:11-13

So what you say above is as much gibberish as what you say below, because you based what you say below on what you said above:
​

The story of Noah is a type showing the Church raptured before the tribulation. The story of Lot shows destruction the day Lot leaves Sodom.

The Church leaves before the seals are opened. The second harvest occurs at the 6th seal before wrath begins. Two raptures.


Noah and His family are in the ark before the tribulation OF THOSE DAYS happens where they remain until the flood comes 6 days after they are sealed in.

You should do some additional study. Noah does not enter the ark the day of the flood.


Yeah but you miss the part where the Lord comes for the second harvest at the 6th seal.


You are correct that Noah was told to enter the ark 7 days before the flood. Noah entered the ark on day one and the Lord shut him in. The flood came 6 days after Noah was shut in.

You need to study Genesis 7 some more so you will understand these types. Once you understand the story of Noah you should understand whose doctrine is false.

hahaha. You just proved beyond the shadow of any doubt that you need to read Genesis 7 some more because you have changed what it's saying in order to attempt to force scripture to comply with a pre-trib rature fantasy.

 

[rwb]

No problem. I allege that the 144,000 are first fruits from 12 tribes of Israel.

Here is the Biblical proof. Do you have any proof that this is in error?

Revelation 7
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 14
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

So...I'm scratching my head! According to this you agree the 144,000 are Old Covenant faithful saints! That's exactly what I said!!! Why then in your reply did you say: "Wow! Now the 144,000 are Old Covenant saints. I've never heard anyone make that up before. I heard the nonsense that the 144,000 is the Church. I've heard the baloney that the 144,000 is all of Israel and now I get to hear that the malarkey that the 144,000 are Old Testament saints." Now you say: " I allege that the 144,000 are first fruits from 12 tribes of Israel.

You think they are firstfruits from the twelve tribes, but they are not Old Covenant saints????

 

[The Light]

So...I'm scratching my head! According to this you agree the 144,000 are Old Covenant faithful saints! That's exactly what I said!!! Why then in your reply did you say: "Wow! Now the 144,000 are Old Covenant saints. I've never heard anyone make that up before. I heard the nonsense that the 144,000 is the Church. I've heard the baloney that the 144,000 is all of Israel and now I get to hear that the malarkey that the 144,000 are Old Testament saints." Now you say: " I allege that the 144,000 are first fruits from 12 tribes of Israel.

You think they are firstfruits from the twelve tribes, but they are not Old Covenant saints????

The first fruits are NOT OLD COVENANT SAINTS.

Hosea 6
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

God saw the fathers of the Jews as the first fruits OF THE FIRST HARVEST, but they served Baalpeor, so they would not be the first fruits of the first harvest.

The Gentiles will be the first harvest, which is the harvest of the fig tree AT HER FIRST TIME.

After the rapture of the Church, part of Israel will have it's eyes opened.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

After the rapture of the Church, there are 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest. This harvest takes place immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God at the 6th seal.

 

[rwb]

The first fruits are NOT OLD COVENANT SAINTS.

Hosea 6
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

God saw the fathers of the Jews as the first fruits OF THE FIRST HARVEST, but they served Baalpeor, so they would not be the first fruits of the first harvest.

The Gentiles will be the first harvest, which is the harvest of the fig tree AT HER FIRST TIME.

After the rapture of the Church, part of Israel will have it's eyes opened.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

After the rapture of the Church, there are 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest. This harvest takes place immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God at the 6th seal.

The faithful remnant of Old Covenant Israel are the firstfruits! They are symbolically numbered 144,000 because only the 'remnant' from the Old Covenant nation are eternally saved.

Isaiah 1:9 (KJV) Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

Isaiah 10:22 (KJV) For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

Isaiah 11:11 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Isaiah 46:3-4 (KJV) Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb: And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you.

Romans 9:27 (KJV) Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Romans 11:5 (KJV) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

These 144,000 faithful saints of Old are the remnant saved from the nation of Israel, firstfruits of God or the first to eternally saved according to grace through faith, and the first to be sealed with eternal spiritual life by the Holy Spirit. Being faithful unto death, they are now praising God in heaven a spiritual body and living souls.

 

[rwb]

Hosea 6
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

What translation are you using? This is not a true quoting from Hosea 6:10.

Hosea 6:10-11 (KJV) I have seen an horrible thing in the house of Israel: there is the whoredom of Ephraim, Israel is defiled. Also, O Judah, he hath set an harvest for thee, when I returned the captivity of my people.

 

[Timtofly]

I saw where you posted that the gathering of mat 24 by angels from heaven, is the rapture and you placed that timeframe about midtrib or immediately before the 144k are gathered. However, that mat 24 gathering is post wrath. As it clearly states.
That gathering is not the rapture as we can see from the context and would be impossible, for Jesus vividly declares a gathering pretrib, later on in the same chapter, which is obviously the rapture of the bride. And that gathering pretrib is a select few. Which is EMPHASIZED several times, almost in the same breath, by Jesus, a few sentences later, and continues into mat 25..if we invoke context and avoid omissions.

Matthew 24:29-31 is the Second Coming, between Israel becoming a nation, verse 32, and the Trumpets sounding, verses 21-28.

The Trumpets and Thunders are the final harvest, after the Second Coming. The 144k are on earth with Jesus and His angels during the Trumpets and Thunders. The Seals are pre-trib as the GT starts with the first Trumpet, and continues through the Trumpets and the 7 Thunders.

The rapture did not happen before Israel became a nation. Jesus did not mention the rapture at all in the Olivet Discourse. The rapture and the Second Coming happen at the same time. John never mentions the rapture in Revelation. The Second Coming and rapture still happen at the same time, the opening of the 5th and 6th Seal.

In Matthew 24:32, we see the start of the end, with a break in thought by a parable. The beginning of the end is the fact that the generation that understands the parable, and the birth of Israel will include people who will be alive on the battlefield known as Armageddon which is the end.

Matthew 24:36-50 then gives the timeframe from Israel becoming a nation until the Second Coming. Not the return in Revelation 19. Verse 14 gets us to that end.

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

That does not say the church will preach the gospel up until the end, as all post teachings declare. That just lets us know the gospel is still available until the end. The 2 witnesses are the last to preach the gospel, and are killed 4 days prior to the battle of Armageddon.

The gathering of the church at the Second Coming does not have to be a select few. Luke 18:8

"I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

That is a question, not a declaration of a fact.

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

So if God is willing that all come to repentance, why does the church of today wring their hands and seem to think only a few make it?

There is not a single verse in Matthew 24 that sets a limit on the success of the Gentile harvest of the church prior to the Second Coming.

 

[The Light]

Read it again. God told Noah seven days beforehand that he must get himself and all the animals into the ark. It was not until the 7th day that Noah entered the ark - the day the flood waters were opened:​

The first thing God told Noah was to enter the ark with all thy house. You think Noah did not enter the ark until the 7th day? Noah did as God told Him and entered the ark.

Genesis 7
1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

I suppose you believe that Noah got all the animals into the ark on the same day that the flood came?

No sir. You suppose wrong. Noah loaded the animals on the day that the Lord commanded, the first day.

It took seven days. And on the 7th day, Noah obeyed the final part of the command - got himself and his family into the ark:

It took one day for the all the animals, and Noah and his family to enter the ark. They entered on day one as commanded.

Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, in the seventeenth day of the month, in this day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of the heavens were opened up. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

In this same day, Noah and Shem and Ham and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, entered into the ark. -- Gen 7:11-13

So what you say above is as much gibberish as what you say below, because you based what you say below on what you said above:​

Now let's read it correctly.

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

The SAME DAY as what????????? The same day Noah was 600 years old the fountains of the deep were broken up. Simple.

Then what? There was rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights................................END OF PARAGRAPH

Genesis
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Then what???????? New parargraph. We are told that Noah, his family and all the animals enter the ark in the selfsame day. That would be day one, the day they were commanded to enter.

13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.

hahaha. You just proved beyond the shadow of any doubt that you need to read Genesis 7 some more because you have changed what it's saying in order to attempt to force scripture to comply with a pre-trib rature fantasy.

I don't think you understand what proving beyond a shadow of doubt means.

Don't worry about your doctrine. Worry about what the scripture says.

 

[The Light]

What translation are you using? This is not a true quoting from Hosea 6:10.

Hosea 6:10-11 (KJV) I have seen an horrible thing in the house of Israel: there is the whoredom of Ephraim, Israel is defiled. Also, O Judah, he hath set an harvest for thee, when I returned the captivity of my people.

Sorry about that. I fumble fingered. Hosea 9

 

[The Light]

So...I'm scratching my head! According to this you agree the 144,000 are Old Covenant faithful saints! That's exactly what I said!!! Why then in your reply did you say: "Wow! Now the 144,000 are Old Covenant saints. I've never heard anyone make that up before. I heard the nonsense that the 144,000 is the Church. I've heard the baloney that the 144,000 is all of Israel and now I get to hear that the malarkey that the 144,000 are Old Testament saints." Now you say: " I allege that the 144,000 are first fruits from 12 tribes of Israel.

I am not saying that the 144,000 are old testament saints. I'm say now YOU ARE TELLING ME that the 144,000 are old testament saints. I've heard that they are the Chuch, all of Israel and now I'm hearing that they are old testament saints. All these are poppycock.

You think they are firstfruits from the twelve tribes, but they are not Old Covenant saints????

Of course THEY ARE NOT Old Testament saints. I showed you were the fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest, but the served Baalpeor. The Gentiles are the first harvest. After that occurs there needs to be first fruits of the second harvest. That's why there are 144,000 first fruits. After the first fruits are in heaven, there will be a harvest. That harvest occurs at the 6th seal.

 

[The Light]

These 144,000 faithful saints of Old are the remnant saved from the nation of Israel, firstfruits of God or the first to eternally saved according to grace through faith, and the first to be sealed with eternal spiritual life by the Holy Spirit. Being faithful unto death, they are now praising God in heaven a spiritual body and living souls.

No. These 144,000 are of the seed of the woman. They are the firstfruits of the coming SECOND harvest. You are trying to make the 1st fruits the harvest. They are not the harvest, they are the first fruits of the harvest. And they are in heaven BEFORE the great tribulation.

Revelation 14
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 

[rwb]

I am not saying that the 144,000 are old testament saints. I'm say now YOU ARE TELLING ME that the 144,000 are old testament saints. I've heard that they are the Chuch, all of Israel and now I'm hearing that they are old testament saints. All these are poppycock.

If they are, as you say, firstfruits unto the Lord, they are Old Covenant saints. I've shown you proof from Scripture.
In fact they are the Church as she was in the wilderness before Christ came to earth a man.

Acts 7:37-38 (KJV) This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear. This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Of course THEY ARE NOT Old Testament saints. I showed you were the fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest, but the served Baalpeor. The Gentiles are the first harvest. After that occurs there needs to be first fruits of the second harvest. That's why there are 144,000 first fruits. After the first fruits are in heaven, there will be a harvest.

Of course THEY ARE Old Covenant saints who were saved through the Law and Prophets, believing the Law and the prophecy of the Messiah who would come to save them. IOW they were of faith in the Messiah to come. Whoever was of faith from the Old Covenant people are firstfruits unto the Lord. The majority of those for the Old covenant people died in unbelief, and served other gods and bowed down before them. Therefore God rejected them, just as He had told them He would. But the remnant of Old saved by grace through faith were never cast away from God. You seem to be using verses of Scripture to fit your preconceived unbiblical opinions.

 

[rwb]

No. These 144,000 are of the seed of the woman. They are the firstfruits of the coming SECOND harvest. You are trying to make the 1st fruits the harvest. They are not the harvest, they are the first fruits of the harvest. And they are in heaven BEFORE the great tribulation.

Revelation 14
And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Verse 4 very clearly says the 144,000 are firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. So why are you trying to force them to be of your imagined SECOND harvest? Just what do you think it means to be the firstfruits unto God of His harvest?

Matthew 13:39 (KJV) The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

The 144,000 of all the tribes of the children of Israel are firstfruits by virtue of being first to ascend spiritually alive to heaven after the cross and resurrection. Christ set them free from the bondage of death they were held in, taking them with Him to heaven alive through the Spirit. They died in faith waiting for fulfillment of the promise for the Messiah to come. Christ, through His Spirit did rescue them from the grave and they ascended with Christ to heaven a spiritual body of believers.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[The Light]

If they are, as you say, firstfruits unto the Lord, they are Old Covenant saints. I've shown you proof from Scripture.
In fact they are the Church as she was in the wilderness before Christ came to earth a man.

Whoa. The Word says they are first fruits. I am only agreeing with what is written. I find no need to make up a bunch of spiritualizing nonsense

Of course THEY ARE Old Covenant saints who were saved through the Law and Prophets, believing the Law and the prophecy of the Messiah who would come to save them.

The 144,000 are not Old Covenant saints. They are of the seed of the woman who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

They don't show up until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

IOW they were of faith in the Messiah to come. Whoever was of faith from the Old Covenant people are firstfruits unto the Lord. The majority of those for the Old covenant people died in unbelief, and served other gods and bowed down before them. Therefore God rejected them, just as He had told them He would. But the remnant of Old saved by grace through faith were never cast away from God. You seem to be using verses of Scripture to fit your preconceived unbiblical opinions.

No. The fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest but they served Baalpeor. Israel will now be the second harvest.

 

[The Light]

Verse 4 very clearly says the 144,000 are firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. So why are you trying to force them to be of your imagined SECOND harvest?

Imagined second harvest?

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The Word says there are two harvests. The fathers of Israel were seen as first fruits of the fig tree at HER FIRST TIME. The fig tree has two harvests. FACT.

Israel will now be the second harvest. And please don't waste your time with we are all Israel, as I understand that. But I also understand the TIMING of the Word of God.

Just what do you think it means to be the firstfruits unto God of His harvest?

It is the Wave Offering of the first fruits unto God. You ought to know what that is and the harvest that follows when the wave offering is acceptable.

The 144,000 of all the tribes of the children of Israel are firstfruits by virtue of being first to ascend spiritually alive to heaven after the cross and resurrection. Christ set them free from the bondage of death they were held in, taking them with Him to heaven alive through the Spirit. They died in faith waiting for fulfillment of the promise for the Messiah to come. Christ, through His Spirit did rescue them from the grave and they ascended with Christ to heaven a spiritual body of believers.

Great and they are not Old Testament saints.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

Matthew 27:52-53 (KJV) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Out of context regarding the 144,000 first fruits of the SECOND HARVEST, which occurs at the 6th seal.,

 

[Zao is life]

The first thing God told Noah was to enter the ark with all thy house. You think Noah did not enter the ark until the 7th day? Noah did as God told Him and entered the ark.

Genesis 7
1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.




No sir. You suppose wrong. Noah loaded the animals on the day that the Lord commanded, the first day.


It took one day for the all the animals, and Noah and his family to enter the ark. They entered on day one as commanded.

Genesis 7
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;


Now let's read it correctly.

11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

The SAME DAY as what????????? The same day Noah was 600 years old the fountains of the deep were broken up. Simple.

Then what? There was rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights................................END OF PARAGRAPH

Genesis
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

Then what???????? New parargraph. We are told that Noah, his family and all the animals enter the ark in the selfsame day. That would be day one, the day they were commanded to enter.

13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;

14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.


I don't think you understand what proving beyond a shadow of doubt means.

Don't worry about your doctrine. Worry about what the scripture says.

You just keep proving beyond the shadow of any doubt that despite all logic you will re-interpret scripture to suit your false doctrine of a pre-rapture rapture. PS: A pre-tribulation rapture is a pre-rapture rapture.

Genesis 7:10-13
And it happened after seven days that the waters of the flood came into being on the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, in the seventeenth day of the month, in this day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of the heavens were opened up. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. In this same day, Noah and Shem and Ham and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, entered into the ark.

There is no new paragraph unless you want to insert seven days after the seventh day that the text itself does not speak about. Total eisegesis. Ridiculous eisegesis.

I would stop now if I were you because you are making it very obvious each time you deliberately misinterpret this passage that there is a motive for your doing so - you are seeking to force what the scripture says to comply with your false doctrine of a pre-trib rapture.​

 

[Zao is life]

There is a grain harvest and a fruit harvest. Jacob had two brides, The fig tree has two harvests. The Lord himself comes at one coming and He sends His angels in another coming. One coming the dead rises first then the alive are caught up and another coming the dead and alive are changed at the same time. One coming we can escape all these things in the tribulation that come to pass and another coming occurs at the 6th seal BEFORE wrath.

One coming is like the days of Noah where Noah is sealed in the ark 6 days before the flood and one coming is like the days of Lot where the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. So are the coming of Jesus BEFORE the tribulation and again when He comes at the 6th seal, BEFORE wrath.

Joseph is the biblical type of Jesus. Jacob is the patriarch of Israel.

Joseph had one bride - a Gentile woman. His two sons were born to him in Egypt. They were Gentiles but were still the seed of Israel, their great-great grandfather.

 

[rwb]

Whoa. The Word says they are first fruits. I am only agreeing with what is written. I find no need to make up a bunch of spiritualizing nonsense

The 144,000 are not Old Covenant saints. They are of the seed of the woman who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

They don't show up until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.


No. The fathers of Israel were supposed to be the first fruits of the first harvest but they served Baalpeor. Israel will now be the second harvest.

None of your imagination is found in Scripture! Simply put you have no understanding of the Bible. Your approach to studying the Bible seems to be based on external writings that come from sources such as Tim Lahaye and the 'Left Behind' nonsense hoisted upon us. You should try writing fictional story books, because fiction seems to be your forte!

 

[rwb]

Imagined second harvest?

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The Word says there are two harvests. The fathers of Israel were seen as first fruits of the fig tree at HER FIRST TIME. The fig tree has two harvests. FACT.

Israel will now be the second harvest. And please don't waste your time with we are all Israel, as I understand that. But I also understand the TIMING of the Word of God.

It is the Wave Offering of the first fruits unto God. You ought to know what that is and the harvest that follows when the wave offering is acceptable.


Great and they are not Old Testament saints.


Out of context regarding the 144,000 first fruits of the SECOND HARVEST, which occurs at the 6th seal.,

More fictional nonsense! Your doctrine is convoluted, stinky GARBAGE!

 

[rebuilder 454]

Matthew 24:29-31 is the Second Coming, between Israel becoming a nation, verse 32, and the Trumpets sounding, verses 21-28.

The Trumpets and Thunders are the final harvest, after the Second Coming. The 144k are on earth with Jesus and His angels during the Trumpets and Thunders. The Seals are pre-trib as the GT starts with the first Trumpet, and continues through the Trumpets and the 7 Thunders.

The rapture did not happen before Israel became a nation. Jesus did not mention the rapture at all in the Olivet Discourse. The rapture and the Second Coming happen at the same time. John never mentions the rapture in Revelation. The Second Coming and rapture still happen at the same time, the opening of the 5th and 6th Seal.

In Matthew 24:32, we see the start of the end, with a break in thought by a parable. The beginning of the end is the fact that the generation that understands the parable, and the birth of Israel will include people who will be alive on the battlefield known as Armageddon which is the end.

Matthew 24:36-50 then gives the timeframe from Israel becoming a nation until the Second Coming. Not the return in Revelation 19. Verse 14 gets us to that end.

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

That does not say the church will preach the gospel up until the end, as all post teachings declare. That just lets us know the gospel is still available until the end. The 2 witnesses are the last to preach the gospel, and are killed 4 days prior to the battle of Armageddon.

The gathering of the church at the Second Coming does not have to be a select few. Luke 18:8

"I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

That is a question, not a declaration of a fact.

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

So if God is willing that all come to repentance, why does the church of today wring their hands and seem to think only a few make it?

There is not a single verse in Matthew 24 that sets a limit on the success of the Gentile harvest of the church prior to the Second Coming.

Rev 19 is the second coming and it is not by any means the rapture.
Besides that, the second coming on white horses also can not be the dead in Christ resurrection because rev 14 gathering is during the trib., which PRECEDES the white horse 2nd coming.
That means your doctrine disagrees that the dead in christ precede the living.
Also all take the mark or die in the trib.
So there is no believers by the end of the trib.
It even says the innumerable number are in heaven abd came out of the great trib.
That is just a few that your doctrine left out.
Omission is the only way for your doctrine to have traction, as your post vividly illustrates

 

[rebuilder 454]

None of your imagination is found in Scripture! Simply put you have no understanding of the Bible. Your approach to studying the Bible seems to be based on external writings that come from sources such as Tim Lahaye and the 'Left Behind' nonsense hoisted upon us. You should try writing fictional story books, because fiction seems to be your forte!

his post is 100% biblical.
Your response is ironically made up nonsense.
How ironic