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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Yep, the lake of fire burns everyone and everything up. To ashes. To the point where nothing exists, eventually not even a memory... That includes Satan.
KJV Ezekiel 28:16-19
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
No ashes in Hell or the Lake of fire.
See, "ashes" happen when they cremate your BODY....
So, you're body is on earth, it does not go into eternity. They bury it or they burn it.
Its your Spirit that leaves your BODY and goes into eternity. And if you are not born again, it goes to HELL, and it does not burn to ashes there or in the Lake of Fire, as the Spirit is not made up of what can be burned into ash.
People who died and went to Hell today, are not turning into ash, as its their Spirit, that is there, and its this same that ends up in the Lake of fire, and will remain.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
All I can say of those who believe scripture is telling them that God tortures sinners for all eternity without any end, without mercy, compassion, or any reference to true justice, do not know God as well as they should. God said the washers of sin is death. From that death, the second death, there is no resurrection. Therefore, they stay dead. No life, none whatsoever, as that same verse declared. Why not let God be God, and let Him have the final say, and afford Him the luxury and the right to put an end to sin, rebellion, and pain and suffering in His universe, instead of persisting and insisting on a human fallen canal instinctive understanding of what constitutes justice. A human dictator would dearly love to be able to torture people and keep them alive forever. The Romans had made that an art form with the crucifixion. And you make God out to be even worse than them!!!
I respond to what you are talking about.
Talk about Love and i'll talk about it.
Talk about sin, and i'll talk about it.
Talk about being born again, or trying to work your way into heaven, and i'll talk about it.
You choose the Topic, per post, and i'll respond and teach.
Ive done that now in over 11,000 response posts.
Count on it.
God does not torture.
You have a wrong understanding...
See, Hell and Heaven are destinations that you choose, as your eternity.
You know right now that Hell and the Lake of fire are horrible. So, if you dont choose Christ, and Salvation, then you have not chosen to go to Heaven.
You CHOSE to go to Hell and the Lake of fire, so do not blame GOD< for your Choice.
Blame you, as you have all your LIFE, to choose Heaven, and avoid Hell and the Lake of fire.
That's on you.
Just a bunch of dcotrine talk to say we're believing without obeying, and we're righteous without doing it. The truth of the Bible is of course not the same and is much more simple.
The imputed righteousness of the Bible, is when we believe God's word from the heart to do it. And so He puts His righteous knowledge within our hearts to do His righteousness. That's the faith that saves, that believe from the heart unto doing the righteousness of God. (Rom 10)
Faith without works and imputed righteousness without doing it, are the same. Dead and useless. Those claiming faith without works, as well as imputed righteousness without doing it, are just talking about something they know nothing of, because they're not doing it. It's just doctrine stuff without effect on how we live. Like vain philosophy.
Also, anyone claiming such faith and imputed righteousness, and are not doing it, make themselves more of sinners than those not making any such claim.
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
It's better to make no claims of faith nor righteousness, if we're not doing it. At least we're being more honest about still not doing the righteous will of God.
Faith is to Believe.
God accepts our faith to give us "the Gift of Salvation"
Now having this eternal gift, we live our lives for God., as this is our "reasonable service" of "presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice to God"...
But never do we do this to try to be saved or to try to stay saved.
= "only JESUS...saves".
God imputes righteousness on those who display a righteous disposition...whether that be by their actions or their faith in Him.
Very simple. What imputed righteousness is NOT is having the righteousness of God attributed to someone because of certain beliefs. A religious belief can make outrageous claims...and the most outrageous of all claims ever made is to declare oneself to be as righteous as God based on reading the bible.
Only God is as righteous as God. Any non-indoctrinated person would see that as evident.
Very simple. What imputed righteousness is NOT is having the righteousness of God attributed to someone because of certain beliefs. A religious belief can make outrageous claims...and the most outrageous of all claims ever made is to declare oneself to be as righteous as God based on reading the bible.
Only God is as righteous as God. Any non-indoctrinated person would see that as evident.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
no God imparts righteousness to those who do not deserve grace. imputed righteousness is all His work,not mans.
hope this helps !!!
God imputes righteousness as "the Gift of Salvation",
To whom, is this given?
A.) Christ came into the world to SAVE SINNERS.
How does He do it?
He dies for ALL their sin on THE CROSS, and God then "imputes righteousness" to them, as "the Gift of Righteousness.
This is "The Gift of Salvation", and all the born again have it, being "made Righteous", as "The righteousness of God, IN CHRIST."
All the born again are "In Christ".
Now you are getting some traction..
See, its BECAUSE that God is so Holy/Righteous, that the very Heat of His Righteousness would make the sun seem like an iceberg.
Consider how this Righteous HEAT, of God's Holiness, dealt with Sodomites in Sodom and Gomorrah.
That's not a myth.
And when Jesus comes back in "Flaming FIRE" "taking Vengeance on those who do not OBEY The Gospel'"... which is to BELIEVE IT and be born again.....
= That FIRE is God's righteous indignation, against sin and unbelief.
""God is not mocked, and every knee shall bow and tongue confess that JESUS IS LORD.""
So, with that in Mind, how can a SINNER be accepted by such a HOLY RIGHTEOUS GOD>. ? ??
How can we be accepted by such a HOLY Spiritual Being?
A.) God became one of us, to die on the Cross to save all of us..
John 3:17
2nd Corinthians 5:19
Romans 4:8
God Gives us His own imputed RIGHTEOUSNESS as "the Gift of Salvation" and "the Gift of Righteousness" so that He can accept us.
Otherwise we can't be accepted by God.
The born again are "become the righteousness OF GOD, IN CHRIST">.. ..
Welcome to : SALVATION
Its a "GIFT" from God.
BELIEVE = : JESUS on the Cross is your Redemption and Eternal Life.
Imputed Righteousness is God declaring that what isn't in our experience is being what it is!
Imputed - means God "puts" it on us. Cloak of righteousness..
“I put on righteousness, and it clothed me;
My justice was like a robe and a turban." Job 29:14
Imparted - means He makes us a "part"aker in our experience of what He has given us.
"For we have become partakers of Christ, if indeed we should hold firm
unto the end the assurance from the beginning." Hebrews 3:14
God can impute His righteousness because He sees in His omniscience with all certainty what is to be as if it is already taking place!
He already sees us as resurrected and glorified. Sees when we will be will EXPERIENCE that righteousness gloriously!
Imputed: "To put." Its like you just inherited a million dollars but must wait a certain amount of time before the money is there to use.
In the mean while? When you walk into a room? God can say... "Here comes my millionaire! "
We have God's righteousness now because God can not fail.
If God says it will happen? Its happened!
Just like Romans 8:30 says - He has already glorified us!
That glory for now has been imputed to us. Right now we stay 'put.'
When the resurrection comes?
Then that glorification will be experienced as part of our being - imparted in spades!
Imputed - means God "puts" it on us. Cloak of righteousness..
“I put on righteousness, and it clothed me;
My justice was like a robe and a turban." Job 29:14
Imparted - means He makes us a "part"aker in our experience of what He has given us.
"For we have become partakers of Christ, if indeed we should hold firm
unto the end the assurance from the beginning." Hebrews 3:14
God can impute His righteousness because He sees in His omniscience with all certainty what is to be as if it is already taking place!
He already sees us as resurrected and glorified. Sees when we will be will EXPERIENCE that righteousness gloriously!
Imputed: "To put." Its like you just inherited a million dollars but must wait a certain amount of time before the money is there to use.
In the mean while? When you walk into a room? God can say... "Here comes my millionaire! "
"And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified;
those he justified, he also glorified." Romans 8:30
We have God's righteousness now because God can not fail.
If God says it will happen? Its happened!
Just like Romans 8:30 says - He has already glorified us!
That glory for now has been imputed to us. Right now we stay 'put.'
When the resurrection comes?
Then that glorification will be experienced as part of our being - imparted in spades!
God's imputed righteousness is the righteous will of God imputed into the heart of one that believes His words.
Only when the believer does His will, does God make the believer righteous.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
If His will is not done, then imputed is made unimputed.
Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Yes. And so is anything imputed, whether righteousness or sin.
Imputed sin is made unimputed by repenting of sinning to do the will of God. Imputed righteousness is made unimputed by sinning to not do the will of God.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
God will not impute sin to any believer doing His will from the heart, and not sinning against Him.
Neither faith toward God nor His imputed righteous will, is kept in the heart by any man disobeying Him and His will.
You mean that "righteous Lot" who had sex with his daughters? Was righteous because of what he had done?
And, David? Who committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband murdered, was really a man after the heart of God?
We need to learn about the meanings of God's "imputed" righteousness vs "imparted" righteousness.
God declares us righteous as a LEGAL declaration, because of God's justice being satisfied by the Cross.
That is "imputed" righteousness. God simply "puts" His righteousness upon our person = saved by faith.
When God "imparts" His righteousness? We became a "partaker" of His righteousness. That is the righteousness you spoke of.
We are partakers of righteousness when we have learned how to walk in the filling of the Spirit by walking in Truth while the Spirit
controls our very life.
Imputed Righteousness = God PUTS his righteousness upon us simply because we have faith in Christ at salvation.
Imparted Righteousness = We are PART of righteous action by means of the filling of the Spirit being transformed by Bible truth..
At salvation we have the Imputed Righteousness of Christ by simply entering faith in Christ. God "puts" His seal upon us.
Walking in maturity, and the Spirit's filling, grants us to be partakers of His righteousness, which is having Imparted righteousness!
Put and Part.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Since being righteous and justified with God is only by doing His righteousness, then like faith alone, imputed righteousness is simply the knowledge and will of God to be right with God in all things.
Imputed righteousness by the faith of hearing God's word, is the knowledge and will of God put in man to do His righteousness.
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Therefore, not doing the known righteous will of God is sin and greater unrighteousness than that of the world.
Those who trust in faith and imputed righteousness by hearing alone, are now more condemned than before hearing the word, by not doing it.
Only the doers of the word and righteous will of God are justified and made righteous as He is righteous.
Claiming imputed righteousness by faith alone, without doing the word, is as unjustified with God as claiming justification with God by faith alone without works.
Claiming faith without works and claiming righteousness without doing it, are the same thing: It's now knowing what to do and not doing it.
Since being righteous and justified with God is only by doing His righteousness, then like faith alone, imputed righteousness is simply the knowledge and will of God to be right with God in all things.
Imputed righteousness by the faith of hearing God's word, is the knowledge and will of God put in man to do His righteousness.
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Therefore, not doing the known righteous will of God is sin and greater unrighteousness than that of the world.
Those who trust in faith and imputed righteousness by hearing alone, are now more condemned than before hearing the word, by not doing it.
Only the doers of the word and righteous will of God are justified and made righteous as He is righteous.
Claiming imputed righteousness by faith alone, without doing the word, is as unjustified with God as claiming justification with God by faith alone without works.
Claiming faith without works and claiming righteousness without doing it, are the same thing: It's now knowing what to do and not doing it.
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Not you. Doing anything to be right with God is anathema to you.
Which is why you've yet to repent with godly sorrow from all sinning, that ye may believe from the heart and be saved by Jesus.
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Your doctrinal salvation by your faith alone saves no one. At least not after the grave. Beforehand, you can have a decent Christian religion of your own making.
Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Those that repent with the heart from sinning. Not just hearers only changing their mindset bout sinning.
Yes, that is a good example. He had that pesky righteous faith example of his uncle, that he couldn't quite shake. Even in the cave he had to play passed out drunk to have sex with his own daughters.
Obviously not. Imputed engrained righteous knowledge is not in the heart, until with the heart we do the will of God.
If you want to find fault with God for saying so, just to play doctrinal games, go ahead. I don't take it seriously.
I have enough from the Bible to tell me that imputed, imparted, or implanted righteousness by faith, is not being made righteous with God without doing it.
It really doesn't take a lot of intellectual word games to read the Bible together, and believe the sum to do it.
This is all theological talk. I don't read any of this in the Bible's own plain words. It's just trying to make a 'legal' argument for how someone doing unrighteousness can be 'legally' called righteous by God. It's the stuff of an unjust judge and lawgiver having respect of persons.
No man is declared righteous, nor is righteous with God, without doing it. God's justice is being just to forgive and do away with all a person's past life, if we repent and believe Jesus to obey Him.
God is just in doing so, only because His Son died on a cross by our sins done against Him, yet still without sinning Himself.
That is why there is now a perfected resurrected man in heaven, Christ Jesus, that God can trust to bring more perfected sons to Him.
Jesus is the Advocate for all men, because He's the only one not to sin unto death of the cross.
Once again, more theological talk. We are commanded to put on Christ Jesus and His righteousness, after repenting of sinning and coming to Him by His faith to do His will.
God isn't foolish enough to try and clothingt any unrepented sinner with His Son in while linen.
That's just the whited clothing of sinners save by grace through their own faith alone.
His righteous desire and will, yes. But that is only a change of mind about sin and righteousness by hearing alone.
Without repentance from sinning by the heart, it's not partaking of His divine nature and being righteous even as He is righteous.
With God, there is no faith without works, nor being anmything without doing it.
That cuts both ways, which is why babes in the womb are neither righteous nor sinful, having never done good nor evil.
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
Imputed righteousness yes. Being righteous, no.
If you mean repent of sinning and now doing His righteousness without sinning, then yes. It's not necessary to saying things so 'spiritually'.
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
Brevity is the soul of wit.
This is your error. Puts His desire to do good within our minds. We repent from the heart to do His will and put on Christ Jesus and clothe ourselves in His righteousness.
We do it through Christ. He does not do it for us. What He does clothe us with is immortality in the resurrection of the dead, if we keep ourselves clothed in His will by doing it.
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
By doing His will, the lust and will of the world cannot possibly invade our hearts anymore.
Once again, this is just doctrine talk for somehow being spiritually pure within while still sinning without.
There is no such thing as inner purity and righteousness, while doing unrighteously with the body.
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Not with the faith alone in the mind by hearing only. The only thing that enters into is a Christian religion conversion of unrepented sinning 'with faith'.
The many that hear the word only, are not the few chosen that repent and do the word.
Only those repenting and doing His word faithfully enter into His everlasting kingdom:
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
No man 'falls in' the door by faith alone.
Which is first by having imparted righteousness through hearing of faith. It is only by doing His righteousness are we righteous as He is.
Having impart righteousness is not doing anything, nor is partaking of His divine nature.
Having righteousness without doing it, once again, is just a changed mind about sin, but not a changed heart from sinning.
Do and Be.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Acts 20:28 - Therefore, take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9
If His thoughts are not our thoughts?
And, His ways are not our ways?
That means...
We can not play the game "What would Jesus do?"
Not unless we receive sound teaching to accurately comprehend what the Word is saying.
So? Without some excellent pastor-teacher exegeting Scripture with insight and accuracy?
We would will play that game according to our own ways and thinking, ending up with self righteousness.
