Losing Your Salvation - Bible Verses

[Eternally Grateful]

Okay, I am a point that I am lost anyway. I do believe that people have been saved from the 'wrath of God', because the 'wrath of God' was poured out on unbelievers, in Ad 70.

where do you come up with this? What month in AD 70 did Gods wrath come to the world?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't know if I refused a gift, but I don't understand the idea that "because it's a gift, it can't be lost" lol How are gifts in a category of "unlosable"? If you have a child, and you give him a gift, can he not lose it? I don't understand that logic. Adam received everything as a gift, but suffered great loss as a result of his sin.

Also, the eternal life is "in His Son" (1 Jn 5:11), so it says eternal life is supplied to those abiding in Him, and that abiding is by obeying the command to 1) believe in the Name of God's Son and 2) love one another (1 Jn 3:23,24), so if/when people break these commands (eg, the Galatians, who, by believing a false Gospel, were "deserting Him Who calls you in the grace of Christ", and were "severed from Christ", or the immoral 1 Th 4:8, or those who are "condemned" for the "sin" of doing things they doubt are correct instead of doing only what they have faith to do (Ro 1:5, 16,17, 14:5, 23)), they are not abiding in Christ (1 Jn 2:28), and are not going to keep being supplied with the Spirit/eternal life that is only located in Christ.

a few thoughts

1. Don't try to relate this gift as something given by a mere man. But A gift given by God which does not perish and will never fade away Our inheritance

1 Peter 1:4
to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

2. Eternal life. Notice it does nto say conditional life. He also said those who receive it will never die. and the moment they receive it is when they believe (John 3, john to name a few)

Salvation is not on us, We can not put fig leaves on and expect God to receive us as we covered our sins. God must sacrifice and cloth us in him (the cross) God did the work. Not Adam or Eve, and not us..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Irrespective whether he took eternal life or not, the issue is he was "gifted" with many blessings, and ended up dead (not the state he started in) and cursed (not blessed as he began) as a result of his sin--it wasn't "unlosable" just because it was a gift!

1. He never had eternal life. in order to get that, he had to eat of the tree of life.
2. He was not created dead, he was created alive.
3. He was tested. given the ability to serve self and not God. Through the serpent and his wife. Adam knowingly sinned. and at that moment he died.
4. He tried to Hide and cover himself with fig leaves.
5 God came to him, Slaughtered an animal and covered him with the blood of the innocent.

I think if more people understood grace, they would understand this fact

 

[Taken]

Irrespective whether he took eternal life or not, the issue is he was "gifted" with many blessings, and ended up dead (not the state he started in) and cursed (not blessed as he began) as a result of his sin--it wasn't "unlosable" just because it was a gift!

Eternal Life IS the Gift of Salvation.
It is absolutely in respect IF he took it or not.
He did not take it IN the Garden of Eden.

 

[Taken]

Adam's very existence, all he was born in to, was an unearned gift--he ended up "dead" and "cursed" for sinning. He lost what had been gifted to him.

What he lost, WAS NOT the gift offering.
What he lost, WAS “IF and WHEN” he COULD receive the Gift offering.

Adams First opportunity to receive the Gift of Salvation, while bodily Alive, was when he was PUT in the Garden, and Told to Eat of every Tree, EXCEPT, the Tree of good and evil.

Adams Last opportunity to receive the Gift of Salvation, while bodily Alive, was when he was Being SENT OUT of the Garden, and passed by the Tree of Life, and did not reach out and take from that Tree and Eat.

Adams First and Last opportunity to receive the Gift of Salvation, While BODILY DEAD, was to Believe On the day his BODY physically Died.

That is the day Adam received his Gift of Salvation.

 

[Taken]

@Taken I believe the Bible teaches Christians can fall under wrath for sinning. I tried linking you to the post, but I am not sure if you will follow a link, so I'll share it here.

1 Corinthians 9:26-1 Corinthians 10 show that salvation can be jeopardized by sin--that just as the Jews fell under God's wrath and forfeited His promise after having been saved, so, also, Christians can fall under God's wrath and forfeit His promise after being saved.

Some object, "This isn't about salvation, it is about rewards," but
i. Paul says that he may become disqualified, and we know Paul often refers to faith as a "race", so if he became disqualified from the race of faith, that would mean he wouldn't be in the faith (eg, 2 Co 13:5).
ii. Paul warns the Corinthians (1 Co 6), because of their shockingly unrighteous behavior, that the unrighteous will not inherit God's Kingdom, explicitly mentioning the immoral and idolaters, and, in 1 Co 10, Paul mentions both immorality and idolatry--and, by the reckoning of a person who denies this issue (righteous living after salvation) is an issue on which eternal life hinges, what they're saying is they would have no issue with a Christian a) living in sin, b) provoking God to jealousy and falling under God's wrath, and c) forfeiting God's promise.

Therefore, the issue is not "merely about rewards" (as if "rewards" could not encompass "eternal life"--this is just a misunderstanding, anyway, since "God will repay every man according to his deeds... to the one who persists in doing good... eternal life" (Ro 2:6-16), and "My reward is with Me to repay every man according to his deeds" (Rv 22:12)), but that it refers to eternal life.

1 Corinthians 9
25Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. So they do it to obtain a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.

So, what is the "wreath", which is a "crown", Paul looks to win by living righteously?

James 1
12Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him

Revelation 2
10‘Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

But what happens to people who do not love God in their deeds? Do they just get a "lesser prize"? Of course not! They're "accursed" (1 Co 16:22).
What happens to people who do not have a "crown of life"? Aren't they dead? Wasn't it sin that first resulted in Adam's death--and isn't 1 Co 10 addressing sin?
So, death is by sin, and Paul says he won't get the crown of life if he lives in sin.

Sin can jeopardize our "in Christ" status (1 Jn 3:23,24)--"life" is located "in Christ" (1 Jn 5:11). Sin is surmised by a command--falling short of it. The command is: i) believe in Christ, and ii) love one another (1 Jn 3:23,24). The "crown of life" Paul wants is by remaining in Christ, where "life" is. Not all believers remain in Christ (1 Jn 2:28; 1 Jn 5:21). There's "no condemnation" for those "in Christ" (Ro 8:1). There's condemnation on a Christian who doesn't walk in faith (Ro 14:23). If there's "no condemnation" for those in Christ, how is a believer condemned? The believer is not remaining in Christ--by not walking in faith, he is not loving others. We remain in Him, and are given Life, by obeying--i) believe in Jesus, ii) love one another. Loving others is another way of saying "walk by faith"--"faith works by love". When are walking in faith, we are walking by love--revealing God's righteousness (Ro 1:5, 16,17). Those who remain in Christ are supplied with the Spirit. The Spirit is the eternal life--the life that is only located "in His Son". There is no sin in Christ. Those who sin are not remaining, and won't get the life. This is the "crown of life" Paul wants. He wants the eternal life located "in Christ", supplied only those who "remain in Christ". It's clear.

In trying to explain your point of view, you changed the dialogue;
From People to Christians.
From Gift of Salvation to Rewards.

Salvation is not a Reward.

Rewards are payments from God as debts of God, HE gives to every man Whose Works Glorified God.

Salvation is a Paid for (By Jesus) Gift Offering, a man MUST Agree to Receive.
A man Agrees in ONE WAY…
* Believing IN his Heart.

A man RECEIVES the Gift of Salvation in one of TWO WAYS.
* While alive IN His flesh Body.
* AFTER his flesh Body IS physically Dead.

* While alive IN his (heartful Believing) flesh Body, He VOWS, To Give His BODY to God, on the DAY that body physically DIES…
(Called a Living Sacrifice)..He receives his Gift of Salvation RIGHT THEN.
* After his flesh (heartful believing) flesh body is Physically dead, He receives his Gift of Salvation.

The Salvation Gift Offering is TO ALL People, regardless of their religious affiliation. (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.)
Regardless of their Race (Jew or Gentile).

The Salvation Gift Offering IS ONLY Received ONCE.
The Salvation Gift Offering IS ALWAYS GIVEN AFTER A vow (to give their body unto death for God) or (After a physical death).

The VOW, is a done deal. That body, NOW belongs to God.
The Physical Death, is a done deal. That body, NOW belongs to God.

In either case:
that body IS Sealed unto God, and Justified to be Risen up IN Glory.

So
WHAT religious affiliation?
WHAT Demon?
WHAT man?
WHAT act of man against man?
WHAT worldly influence?
WHAT famine, war, disease, weather disturbance, poison, governing power, scientist, Philosopher, teacher, parent, circumstance or person….
TRUMP Gods POWER, and undo, reverse, Gods Gift of Salvation “GIVEN” that individual?

None! Zip! Nada!

THE ONLY WAY, a man can LOSE his Salvation, is to NOT (according to Gods WAY) TAKE his Gift of Salvation.

And According to Gods WAY…IS:
Requires, the mans own willingness and the mans own Heartful Truth in accepting the Gift.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MatthewG]

If the following is the answer for how they will be outside the city (not committing the dirty deeds, but suffering on account of them), I wouldn't want to be there with them.

Isaiah 66
24“Then they will go forth and look
On the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm will not die
And their fire will not be quenched;
And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind.”

I recall that Lazarus was able to look over and see the rich man burning for having committed his sins during his life.

The only information that has been given is found in Revelation 21-22, concerning the faithless. Idk if Yahava will allow us to bring people into the Kingdom even after this life that are out there in darkness perhaps. It's just a hope that is personally held by myself.

 

[MatthewG]

where do you come up with this? What month in AD 70 did Gods wrath come to the world?

September. 8, 70AD. You can also reference Josephus if you would like to. Many people mistranslate God's wrath as though it was to come upon everyone in the world, however this was pertaining to God's chosen nation, Israel which was divorced, and destroyed and desolated, with everything set a blaze, even people being thrown in Ghenna. Everything that Yeshua promised came true for that generation that was to see what would happened unto them.

September 8, 70 CE
The Siege of Jerusalem was a Roman military blockade of Jerusalem during the First Jewish Revolt123. The siege took place from February to September 8, 70 CE4. The fall of the city marked the effective conclusion of a four-year campaign against the Jewish insurgency in Judaea1. The Romans destroyed much of the city, including the Second Temple1.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

September. 8, 70AD. You can also reference Josephus if you would like to. Many people mistranslate God's wrath as though it was to come upon everyone in the world, however this was pertaining to God's chosen nation, Israel which was divorced, and destroyed and desolated, with everything set a blaze, even people being thrown in Ghenna. Everything that Yeshua promised came true for that generation that was to see what would happened unto them.

That was Gods punishment as set forth in lev 26.

In fact it is the 3rd time it happened (Assyria, babylon and finally Rome

Gods wrath will come on all who do not repent and come to him.. .

 

[MatthewG]

That was Gods punishment as set forth in lev 26.

In fact it is the 3rd time it happened (Assyria, babylon and finally Rome

Gods wrath will come on all who do not repent and come to him.. .

I do not believe in all that. Once the cup of wrath was poured out there is no more. I believe that because of God's Just punishment, that the cup of wrath was emptied, and allowed Revelation 21-22, to be instated. I do not see the need for a third temple. People today are the temple that the Spirit of God dwells in.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I do not believe in all that. Once the cup of wrath was poured out there is no more. I believe that because of God's Just punishment, that the cup of wrath was emptied, and allowed Revelation 21-22, to be instated. I do not see the need for a third temple. People today are the temple that the Spirit of God dwells in.

Your right there is no need.

But all the same God said one will be built. in fact Jesus himself will rule from within it

 

[MatthewG]

When I think about Yahava, and what he is like, he is a God that works with people where they are at. Those who do not want nothing to do with him, he allows them to choose, however I believe he is always calling and desires people to come to know the truth about his Son, and that people would turn their hearts and minds towards Him. If at the end of life they chose not to, Yahava will reward them just as those who did have faith, and it seems there are two places where one side remains in faithlessness, while those who enter into the city gates are those who desire to partake with God and have fellowship with his Son.

That is how I see it compared to what many people suggest God and his wrath is like - that is just anger, and what will he do beat the piss out of you? Or will he lovingly try to persuaded you to go about thinks looking and trusting him? God allows people whatever they want to do, and doesn't puppet anyone, and even in the bible it is written all shall bow and confess Jesus is Lord. However how can faithless people do that except by the holy spirit when they start to believe.

 

[MatthewG]

Your right there is no need.

But all the same God said one will be built. in fact Jesus himself will rule from within it

Okay, thank you for sharing with me some things you think about.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When I think about Yahava, and what he is like, he is a God that works with people where they are at. Those who do not want nothing to do with him, he allows them to choose, however I believe he is always calling and desires people to come to know the truth about his Son, and that people would turn their hearts and minds towards Him. If at the end of life they chose not to, Yahava will reward them just as those who did have faith, and it seems there are two places where one side remains in faithlessness, while those who enter into the city gates are those who desire to partake with God and have fellowship with his Son.

That is how I see it compared to what many people suggest God and his wrath is like - that is just anger, and what will he do beat the piss out of you? Or will he lovingly try to persuaded you to go about thinks looking and trusting him? God allows people whatever they want to do, and doesn't puppet anyone, and even in the bible it is written all shall bow and confess Jesus is Lord. However how can faithless people do that except by the holy spirit when they start to believe.

He sent his son to die

if you recieve him, you will live

if you do not you will die.

those are the only two choices that will determine if we suffer hell (wrath) or blessing (heaven) Faith in Christ

 

[MatthewG]

He sent his son to die

if you recieve him, you will live

if you do not you will die.

those are the only two choices that will determine if we suffer hell (wrath) or blessing (heaven) Faith in Christ

That is the conjecture. In the bible hell is done away with. Therefore, where do souls go to then? My answer is, either (Inside the heavenly kingdom)(outside of the heavenly kingdom.) Many people in this day in age, especially just conversing with you, it seems they have yet to take the time and see what is revealed in Revelation 21-22, and read it to yourself. It seems it's a very different picture than the whole "heaven and hell" segment some Christian churches get into, which may because they themselves, do not often look and go back and see what is shown in there in the letter itself, which is a daunting task for any individual out there in the world to partake in, I also do not think you have not ever read the bible ever either. You are well knowledged in that thing to some degree or another, many people are. Some do one area, some do another, its good to really just get an overall picture for oneself if possible. And in the end you are right it comes down to having faith, and having love.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is the conjecture. In the bible hell is done away with. Therefore, where do souls go to then? My answer is, either (Inside the heavenly kingdom)(outside of the heavenly kingdom.) Many people in this day in age, especially just conversing with you, it seems they have yet to take the time and see what is revealed in Revelation 21-22, and read it to yourself. It seems it's a very different picture than the whole "heaven and hell" segment some Christian churches get into, which may because they themselves, do not often look and go back and see what is shown in there in the letter itself, which is a daunting task for any individual out there in the world to partake in, I also do not think you have not ever read the bible ever either. You are well knowledged in that thing to some degree or another, many people are. Some do one area, some do another, its good to really just get an overall picture for oneself if possible. And in the end you are right it comes down to having faith, and having love.

Rev 20: 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Satan, the beast the false prophet and all who reject Jesus will be cast to the lake of fire. where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

To say there is no eternal damnation is to deny the word of God,..

 

[MatthewG]

Rev 20: 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Satan, the beast the false prophet and all who reject Jesus will be cast to the lake of fire. where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

To say there is no eternal damnation is to deny the word of God,..

You still are leaving out Chapters 21 and 22. This chapter 20 to me is old news, praise Yahava, and his Son, for casting judgement on those of the old age, before the new age had been established which is now by the Spirit and no longer the material.

 

[GracePeace]

So you think some are born not in Adam? who would these people be?

Being born in Adam means you're born into slavery to sin due to the body of sin--the result of the slavery is spiritual death when you come of age, come to know good and evil, and knowingly do evil, and your "eyes" are "opened". This would be without exception be the case for those "in Adam".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Being born in Adam means you're born into slavery to sin due to the body of sin--the result of the slavery is spiritual death when you come of age, come to know good and evil, and knowingly do evil. This would be without exception be the case for those "in Adam".

It means you’re born dead. Seperated from God.

In adam ALL (not some) die.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You still are leaving out Chapters 21 and 22. This chapter 20 to me is old news, praise Yahava, and his Son, for casting judgement on those of the old age, before the new age had been established which is now by the Spirit and no longer the material.

Where do you come up with this?

chapter 20 is the end of time as we know it

Chapter 21 is eternity future with God..