Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

[amadeus]

Seems that some PARTS want no part in 1 Corinthians twelve.

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And what 'part' shall they have if they then in the end apart from the Body of Christ?

 

[St. SteVen]

How were these faithful saints of Old indwelt with the Spirit of Christ (born again) after physical death so they too could ascend to heaven spiritually alive after the cross and resurrection of Christ and His ascension to heaven?

I've heard it called the Harrowing of Hell.
Jesus took captivity captive... (it's in the Creed)

I believe it will happen again in the Age of Restoration.

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[St. SteVen]

And what 'part' shall they have if they then in the end apart from the Body of Christ?

Should they DEPART they will have no PART. - LOL
(actually it only means a powerless existence in the BODY)

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[St. SteVen]

Pretty clear when you look at ALL the pertinent scriptures, the MANIFISTATION of the Spirit, which Spirit was within the baptized believers in biblical times per Acts 2:38, was the result of the laying on of the apostle's hands.

Not always.
The Holy Spirit doesn't like to be put in a box.
He is more unpredictable than that.

The house of Cornelius is the most obvious example.
They received the Spirit while Peter was still speaking to them.

Same with the outpouring at Pentecost.
And hopefully they didn't have to lay hands on each of the 3,000 added that day.

Even today, the laying on of hands is more tradition than the rule.
Many still receive the Spirit spontaneously. In some cases with no idea what it even is. - LOL

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[DJT_47]

Not always.
The Holy Spirit doesn't like to be put in a box.
He is more unpredictable than that.

The house of Cornelius is the most obvious example.
They received the Spirit while Peter was still speaking to them.

Same with the outpouring at Pentecost.
And hopefully they didn't have to lay hands on each of the 3,000 added that day.

Even today, the laying on of hands is more tradition than the rule.
Many still receive the Spirit spontaneously. In some cases with no idea what it even is. - LOL

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Don't look at Acts 10 and 2 to justify your statement. Acts 2 and 10 were very unique and not at all the norm, and the Spirit fell unilaterally and miraculously without the laying on of the apostle's hands fir a very good reason: to validate what was occurring in both instances in which the church was started, 1st I Jerusalem amongst the Jews, and then in Caesarea amongst the Gentiles. That's why the Spirit FELL on these as it did, as a sign that it was God's will.

 

[St. SteVen]

Don't look at Acts 10 and 2 to justify your statement. Acts 2 and 10 were very unique and not at all the norm, and the Spirit fell unilaterally and miraculously without the laying on of the apostle's hands fir a very good reason: to validate what was occurring in both instances in which the church was started, 1st I Jerusalem amongst the Jews, and then in Caesarea amongst the Gentiles. That's why the Spirit FELL on these as it did, as a sign that it was God's will.

I see your point.
What do you make of this?

Acts 4:31 NIV
After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken.
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

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[St. SteVen]

Don't look at Acts 10 and 2 to justify your statement. Acts 2 and 10 were very unique and not at all the norm, and the Spirit fell unilaterally and miraculously without the laying on of the apostle's hands fir a very good reason: to validate what was occurring in both instances in which the church was started, 1st I Jerusalem amongst the Jews, and then in Caesarea amongst the Gentiles. That's why the Spirit FELL on these as it did, as a sign that it was God's will.

I'm not sure if I buy the two outpourings theory. One for the Jews and one for the gentiles.
Do you see that supported anywhere else in the NT writings? (I will look myself now)

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[rwb]

I've heard it called the Harrowing of Hell.
Jesus took captivity captive... (it's in the Creed)

I believe it will happen again in the Age of Restoration.

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Again, I agree! Jesus did take these Old Covenant faithful saints from captivity of the grave to heaven with Him when He ascended there.

Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

I believe they are the saints that many witnesses [in heaven] saw when graves were opened and many [spiritual] bodies came out after Christ' resurrection. The holy city where they appeared was new Jerusalem, that is spiritually in heaven, and will come down to the new earth.

Matthew 27:51-53 (KJV) And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Revelation 21:1-2 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

What you call the "Harrowing of Hell", I call the emptying of that part of the grave of Old called Abraham's bosom we read of in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Since Christ has defeated Satan, sin and death by His life, death and resurrection, death no longer has power over all who die in Him. In death our body returns to dust, and we as spiritual body of believers in heaven ascend there with Christ as living souls.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I could say more, but I'm not sure you want your thread to go in the direction my comments might take it.

 

[rwb]

I'm not sure if I buy the two outpourings theory. One for the Jews and one for the gentiles.
Do you see that supported anywhere else in the NT writings? (I will look myself now)

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I would say not two different outpourings, in both He is the same Holy Spirit. Rather two different times or occasions.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Remember this is before Jesus made known the mystery of the gospel meaning that before the news of the gentiles being part of the calling and upon all flesh is in reference to them as well but it will be to the Jews first then upon rejection to the gentiles that is new testament teaching through out the gospel

 

[St. SteVen]

I could say more, but I'm not sure you want your thread to go in the direction my comments might take it.

This is an old thread. I'm not concerned about getting off topic.
Thanks for asking though. Much appreciated.

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[DJT_47]

My view is that you must look atvthe broader text and not just verse 31. If you look at verse 23 and beyond, you see that Peter and John returned to their own, but it's not exactly clear who that was since it's not specifically stated in exact terms. But you then read that they prayed for power or boldness to speak the word of God in verse 29. Then make your way down to verse 33, and it's there you get a clue and find the answer as to who their own company was and who was then given the power to speak the word of God boldly: It was the apostles. Acts 4:23-37 23And being let go, they went to their own company, and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them. 24And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: 25Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 29And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus. 31And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. Sharing among Believers (Acts 2:42-47) 32And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. 36And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, 37Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

 

[Godslittleservant]

I see your point.
What do you make of this?

Acts 4:31 NIV
After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken.
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly

It came upon to strengthen them in speaking the word more boldly just a gentle boost

 

[DJT_47]

I see your point.
What do you make of this?

Acts 4:31 NIV
After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken.
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

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[DJT_47]

See post 132 which was a reply to your 126 post but for some reason didn't get posted there

 

[St. SteVen]

See post 132 which was a reply to your 126 post but for some reason didn't get posted there

Would you agree that it was a third outpouring on a group of individuals?
There may have been others. And reports of some in our time. (Eskimos)

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[DJT_47]

Would you agree that it was a third outpouring on a group of individuals?
There may have been others. And reports of some in our time. (Eskimos)

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No, I wouldn't agree cuz if you follow the text as I laid out, it appears that it was the apostles, and if so, they were the ones on which the power from on high was bestowed

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Would you agree that it was a third outpouring on a group of individuals?
There may have been others. And reports of some in our time. (Eskimos)

No, I wouldn't agree cuz if you follow the text as I laid out, it appears that it was the apostles, and if so, they were the ones on which the power from on high was bestowed

So, even though it was an additional outpouring, it doesn't count because they already had one?

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[VictoryinJesus]

The Head [Jesus] is ready, but are all the parts ready and each in its proper place?

Eph 4:15	But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16	From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Seems that some PARTS want no part in 1 Corinthians twelve.

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“Members” is an interesting word. It can mean a literal body part as in going into surgery to have one of your members amputated.

Then the definition God gives to “members” of the body.

Know you not your bodies are the members of Christ? Shall I take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
for the body is one, and has many members, and all the members of that one body, being many are one body; so also is Christ.
For is not one member, but many.
nay, much more those members of the body, which seems to be more feeble, (which we think to be less honorable), are necessary. (For His strength is made perfect in weakness?)
now you are the body, and members in particular.
This Mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body….
Wherefore put off lying, speak every man truth to his neighbor: for you are members of one another.
For you are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones.
Even so the tongue is a little member and boast great things. behold how a great matter a little fire kindles.
The tongue is a fire, a world of inquity: so is the tongue among our members. that defiles the whole body. (When one member suffers the whole body suffers, when one member is honored the whole body is honored)
From where comes war and fightings among you. Come they not here, even your lust that war in your members?

 

[DJT_47]

St. SteVen said:
Would you agree that it was a third outpouring on a group of individuals?
There may have been others. And reports of some in our time. (Eskimos)

So, even though it was an additional outpouring, it doesn't count because they already had one?

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Not sure what your point is. The power from on high was promised to the 11 apostles per Luke 24:49 and was fulfilled starting with Acts 2 at which time the Spirit manifested itself by falling on them. If you're trying to find significance by how many times the Spirit did such along with Acts 10, then I suppose you could include that, but since it was upon those already promised such and that had already possessed the power from on high, it's not of any unique significance nor severed any unique purpose as did Acts 2 and 10 which were very significant. But also in those 2 instances, the Spirit simply fell on its own volition without any prior prayer, it just happened, being a surprise to all present. Note too, that there is evidence elsewhere that prayer by the apostles preceded the falling of the Spirit prior to the laying on of their hands, inferring that it wasn't automatic or that it (the miraculous manifestation of it, "gifts" if you will) happened every time. Note the wording of Acts 8:15, and the use of the word "might". It didn't say 'would', but rather "might".

Acts 8:15

15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 1