Why hadn't the baptized believers in Samaria received the Holy Spirit?

[St. SteVen]

OK, thanks for the update of 'location'.

In the Samaria 'case' we see the LORD directing the Apostles to go there.

But why not just have the Holy Spirit fall upon them at the preaching of the Gospel???

Because God is a God of Order = Genesis = Gospel = Acts chapters 1 & 2 = and Forward to Revelation

Here was my response to @Lambano

This is the interesting thing about this. The Holy Spirit doesn't want to be put in a box.
Like Jesus said in John chapter three, the HS is like the wind. (pneuma) As you know.

So, the formulas weren't working. Even Jesus' healing ministry was this way.
Look at the methods Jesus was directed to use when healing the blind.
Different every time. We need to be obedient to the leading if we want the results.
Even Jesus was subject to this. Saw what the Father was doing and aligned himself.

/

 

[Lambano]

This is the interesting thing about this. The Holy Spirit doesn't want to be put in a box.
Like Jesus said in Jon chapter three, the HS is like the wind. (pneuma) As you know.

So, the formulas weren't working. Even Jesus' healing ministry was this way.

Yeah, but we like our formulas. Formulae? They give us the illusion that we have some control - we do everything right, and God will do this.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yeah, but we like our formulas. Formulae? They give us the illusion that we have some control - we do everything right, and God will do this.

So true, And funny too.
I think this was the problem in Samaria.
The Apostles thought they had a formula and were going with it.
That's not the way God wanted them to operate.

The Spirit came spontaneously at Pentecost.
But required baptism after Peter's Pentecost sermon. ???
Baptism at Samaria didn't work. Required the laying on of hands. ???
At the house of Cornelius the Spirit came WHILE Peter was preaching. ???
Baptism followed the outpouring. ???

If you asked Peter how this works, what do you suppose he would say? - LOL
"???"

/

 

[amadeus]

So true, And funny too.
I think this was the problem in Samaria.
The Apostles thought they had a formula and were going with it.
That's not the way God wanted them to operate.

The Spirit came spontaneously at Pentecost.
But required baptism after Peter's Pentecost sermon. ???
Baptism at Samaria didn't work. Required the laying on of hands. ???
At the house of Cornelius the Spirit came WHILE Peter was preaching. ???
Baptism followed the outpouring. ???

If you asked Peter how this works, what do you suppose he would say? - LOL
"???"

/

What is the totality of God's plan? Just where and or how does each one of us fit in?

 

[St. SteVen]

What is the totality of God's plan? Just where and or how does each one of us fit in?

One BIG happy family. No child left behind.

/

 

[amadeus]

What is the totality of God's plan? Just where and or how does each one of us fit in?

What is the Body of Christ?

 

[amadeus]

One BIG happy family. No child left behind.

/

Consider I Corinthians chapter 12.

 

[amigo de christo]

The Apostles John, Peter, Paul and the others were chosen by Christ = there is nothing to not like.

The RCC have "false apostles" = stay away from them

True Apostles confirm the words of Christ and the Prophets, whereas 'false apostles' create their own religion such as RCC and other.

Truth is i have never found a true apostel IN THE RCC .
The apostel peter , HOWEVER was true .
HE wrote to the church and told the church that they , the apostels had the more sure word of prophecy
whereunto if the church do heed it shall do well . PETER ALSO made sure to remind them
that HE would make a way that even after His decease they would be able to have THESE THINGS IN REMEMBRANCE .
THEY GATHERED THE LETTERS . ITS THE BIBLE MY FRIEND . the very BOOK rome claimeth and yet TWISTS AND OMITS FROM
ITS POPES are DEAD , TWICE dead . Stay in that bible . the true apostels , under INSPIRTATION OF GOD , OF THE SPIRIT
KNEW what they were doing and they made sure we , yes even us would have a way to remember too .
Peter even mentioned paul and his letters . ITS THE BIBLE MY FRIEND . THE POPES and sadly most of the protestant realm
NO LIKEY A LAMB THAT STICKS TO THAT BOOK . cause that lamb WONT BE DECIEVED BY THEIR MEN .

 

[St. SteVen]

Consider I Corinthians chapter 12.

RIGHT!
The Body has PARTS.
Some people think the BODY should be an amputee.
They THINK we don't NEED all our body parts.

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[amigo de christo]

oh we need the parts , just not false doctrines of men .
and the parts , if in error STILL need to be corrected within that church .

 

[amigo de christo]

 

[amadeus]

RIGHT!
The Body has PARTS.
Some people think the BODY should be an amputee.
They THINK we don't NEED all our body parts.

/

The Head [Jesus] is ready, but are all the parts ready and each in its proper place?

Eph 4:15	But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16	From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Head [Jesus] is ready, but are all the parts ready and each in its proper place?

Seems that some PARTS want no part in 1 Corinthians twelve.



/

 

[rwb]

Why didn't the disciples in Ephesus receive the Holy Spirit when they believed?

Text below.

What caused the Apostle Paul to question them?
What evidence was he looking for that he did not see in them?
They were disciples, and he recognized them as believers.

At what point did they receive the Holy Spirit? (according to this text)
Paul laid hands on them (prayed) after their water baptism. (after)
What was the evidence? They spoke in tongues and prophesied.
Twelve of them. (12 men/families)

Acts 19:1-7 NIV
While Apollos was at Corinth,
Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus.
There he found some disciples 2 and asked them,
“Did you receive the Holy Spirit when[a] you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance.
He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them,
and they spoke in tongues[b] and prophesied.
7 There were about twelve men in all.

Because the only ones knowing of the Holy Spirit being IN the faithful then were the disciples that were with Christ during His three years of ministry on the earth. They had received sufficient faith to believe the promised Messiah would come through the Spirit with them. But in is only through the Spirit IN us that we are born again. For that reason the Old Covenant saints who lived to see fulfillment of the prophesy of The Messiah come in the first century AD, must also be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Christ tells us that none can see (know) or enter the spiritual Kingdom of God until he/she is born again of the Spirit IN us. John's baptism was never for eternal salvation, which is why John says "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:. John seems to be showing us that repentance is good, but eternal salvation is of the Lord, through His Spirit in us.

 

[amigo de christo]

Seems that some PARTS want no part in 1 Corinthians twelve.

View attachment 37837

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if any part be in error it still need to be corrected . sometimes i think folks mistake parts
for sins . Cause i seen some in error and yet the error they are in gets called love and needful to the body .
WELL if the part be in sin , IT needs to be corrected lest leaven LEAVENS the other parts . LETS not forget that PART either .

 

[amigo de christo]

We do what we do for the GOOD of the church , ITS EDIFCIATION and not its destruction .
SIN can leaven much and destroy much within a church if left un corrected . Now mark those words well .
for not only will leaven leaven the one in it but the entire group if left uncorrected .
PAUL KNEW THAT . Guess which i am gonna follow , the biblcal pattern or todays misinformed pattern .
A hint it starts with a B and ends with an E . BIBLE . Cause , that i do know GOD INSPIRED . and HE KNOWS what is best for us all .

 

[St. SteVen]

Because the only ones knowing of the Holy Spirit being IN the faithful then were the disciples that were with Christ during His three years of ministry on the earth. They had received sufficient faith to believe the promised Messiah would come through the Spirit with them. But in is only through the Spirit IN us that we are born again. For that reason the Old Covenant saints who lived to see fulfillment of the prophesy of The Messiah come in the first century AD, must also be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Christ tells us that none can see (know) or enter the spiritual Kingdom of God until he/she is born again of the Spirit IN us. John's baptism was never for eternal salvation, which is why John says "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:. John seems to be showing us that repentance is good, but eternal salvation is of the Lord, through His Spirit in us.

I agree for the most part. But there were examples of being filled with the Spirit in the OT.

Exodus 35:30-33 NIV
Then Moses said to the Israelites,
“See, the Lord has chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah,
31 and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom,
with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills—
32 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze,
33 to cut and set stones, to work in wood and to engage in all kinds of artistic crafts.

/

 

[rwb]

I agree for the most part. But there were examples of being filled with the Spirit in the OT.

Exodus 35:30-33 NIV
Then Moses said to the Israelites,
“See, the Lord has chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah,
31 and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom,
with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills—
32 to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze,
33 to cut and set stones, to work in wood and to engage in all kinds of artistic crafts.

/

Yes, I agree! There certainly are a number of people from Old who were filled with the Holy Spirit. The difference of course between those filled with the Spirit of Old is that the Spirit was not permanently in them. They were filled for specific tasks, but their filling of the Spirit during the Old Covenant was never to be born again. ALL, without exception must be born again before they can see (know) or enter the Kingdom of God. Even those of Old who died in faith before Christ came had to be sealed by the Holy Spirit before ascending with Christ to heaven. How were these faithful saints of Old indwelt with the Spirit of Christ (born again) after physical death so they too could ascend to heaven spiritually alive after the cross and resurrection of Christ and His ascension to heaven?

 

[DJT_47]

Previous posting of mine addressing this issue and logic thereof.


Stephen was already a baptized believer, so according to Acts 2:38, he had already received the gift not gifts, which are the miraculous manifestation of the Spirit. It wasn't until they (the apostles) laid their hands on him, verse 6, that he was able to do the wonders as noted in verse 8

"5And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: 6Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

7And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

8And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people."

Also to corroborate the fact that it was the laying on of the apostle's hands that enabled the gifts (manifestations of the Spirit, those listed in 1Cor 12:8-10).

Acts 5:12

12And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.

Acts 8:14-17

14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:18-19

18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:6

6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

2 Tim 1:6-7

6Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands. 7For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Pretty clear when you look at ALL the pertinent scriptures, the MANIFISTATION of the Spirit, which Spirit was within the baptized believers in biblical times per Acts 2:38, was the result of the laying on of the apostle's hands.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Yes this is what I have been saying There is a difference in the spirit with in and the spirit upon. The spirit with gifts is not the indwelling spirit that is promised to all but to certain peopled chosen to grow the church while the Apostles go forth and build new churches. It was never promised to all all and from the out pouring on the Jews (Acts 2 ) first then on the gentiles (Acts 10)it was never done in this manner again but by laying on of the Apostles hands not the disciples (all the saved) but only by the Apostles. So this cannot be the baptism that John said Jesus was going to baptize with.

The spirit upon was also used in the old testament for God to show signs that what was happening was from him just as he did in the new testament.

The baptism in the name of Jesus Christ ( Acts 2:38) is the baptism that John was talking about Jesus going to baptize with. It is where the bible says the indwelling spirit is given and it is the one promised to all Acts 2:39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself." It does not give the gifts but the gift which is the spirit itself and produces fruit in us. Yes there is a difference and we must understand this to understand the rest.