Christ's sinless Head with a sinful body?

[Peterlag]

Nor can the saint be sinning when in Christ, in whom is no sinning. The sinless Head does not have a sinful body.

The hypocrisy is readily seen by even the world. Unrepented sinful Christians claiming to be walking in the Spirit 'in their minds', while walking after the flesh with the world, is nothing but spiritualized inward religion, that has nothing to do with how we live.

They preach a new age Christianity, but less honestly. They exhaust themselves with bogus theology twisted from the Bible, just to justify their continued sinful living. The new agers don't drag people's minds through all that rigmarole. They just say they are divine within, and how they live is just life in this world. Simply wrong, but at least honest.

At least they don't spend so much time trashing the Bible to justify themselves.

What a false apostle and teacher does most, is spend so much 'Bible scholarship' time just to say, "sinning is ok, so long as we believe..."

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:

They get so caught up in it, that they even think they can convince people of something, by changing the meaning of words in order to change the meaning of the Bible.

I mean, who in the world of a child's common sense actually tries to argue about being a man or woman, vs a human man or woman??

Even apes aren't stupid enough to argue a difference between being an ape, vs being a primate ape.

It gets to where it's not the ministering of sinning to Christians, that is so bad. Afterall, that's peoples' own business, and God will judge the works in the end. But the Chinese water torture drip-drip of insults to the Bible and standard intelligence, becomes almost unbearable.

"Jesus was a man, but not a human man!" Are you kidding me?? So is a human man therefore not a man??

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

Most Christians still believe the spirit of Christ makes their flesh spiritual. And this is why they believe their sins are forgiven when they are born again up to that point, but must run to God to confess and repent their new sins every time they sin after becoming a Christian. The belief is that you will either be lost, or on your way to hell, or at the very least God will not fellowship with you, and He certainly will not answer your prayers if you are found with an unconfessed sin. Such a concept would mean everybody would be on their way to hell because there is not a person on this earth who does not have either a known or an unknown unconfessed sin. Now if this new sin just means the loss of a relationship with God, which would include unanswered prayers. Then God would not have a single person on this earth qualified to receive an answer to prayer or to be able to fellowship with Him.

 

[Ghada]

Many who believe in salvation by faith alone also believe that that salvation MUST manifest itself in holiness--eg, Spurgeon, who was a Calvinist, said "If you don't care about saving souls, be sure your soul is not saved either."

The problem is with the extremist types, that separate their saving faith from how they are living.

They also promote doing good and producing good fruits in life, (and sinning less), but never as being part of their salvation and justification with Christ. They basically teach that It's nice to do good for others, but not necessary for our soul's sake.

And their doctrine really isn't about faith 'alone' at all, but rather about being saved by faith with unrighteous works of the flesh.

Once Christians take away the necessity of doing good to inherit the kingdom of God in the resurrection, then Christian 'faith alone' ideology begins to trust entirely upon doctrine alone to get to heaven.

Such a spiritual 'mind-only' religion rejects being judged by works along with everyone else. It exempts the 'believers' from being judged by works like the 'unbelievers'. It says God will only judge them by 'believing', not by works.

In the end, it's just the kind of childish delusion and fantasy, that thinks being something can be just by believing it.

The simple summary of such faith alone gospel, is "I believe I am saved, therefore I must be saved." No matter how we are living at the time.

 

[Ghada]

Most Christians still believe the spirit of Christ makes their flesh spiritual.

This is a nonsensical statement that I've heard before. When anyone begins talking about 'spiritual flesh' stuff, then I know that the promotion of a sinners-saved-by-grace gospel is in the offing.

In 2 Cor 7, God is not talking about making our flesh 'spiritual', which is impossible, since there is no such thing as 'spiritual' flesh and blood:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

When God preaches cleansing our spirit and flesh from all filthiness, so that our soul, spirit, and body are blameless in Christ Jesus, the Lord is only commanding His people to live righteously and holily in the spirit and in the flesh. Just like His own dearly beloved Son.

It's just fulfilling the reformation and commandment of Jesus to cleanse within the platter, so that the outside will also be clean.

There is such a thing as being outwardly righteous, while inwardly unclean. However, there is no such thing as being outwardly unrighteous, while being inwardly clean. I thought you taught against spiritual 'purity' with unclean living? Believing to be inwardly righteous by faith alone, while outwardly sinning with the flesh? Maybe I am mistaken.

There is no such thing as fellowshipping with the Lord inwardly, while communing with the devil outwardly.

Such a concept would mean everybody would be on their way to hell because there is not a person on this earth who does not have either a known or an unknown unconfessed sin.

Right. The mantra of unrighteous Christian religion and living: "Believers are still sinners like unbelievers too, but just forgiven while sinning like unbelievers too."

This is where we part company (*heavy sigh*). There is no sinful member of the body of the sinless Head Jesus Christ. No man while sinning is a member of Jesus' body on earth.

What you are espousing is just the same tired old unbelief of the world and apparently of many Christians alike. It's the sinners' gospel, that does not believe with the heart unto the righteousness of God. (Or at least, not doing His righteousness all the time).

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

The sinful Christian religion (beginning in the days of the apostles (2 Peter 2-)), has never believed any man can cease sinning and walk with Jesus like Jesus, and always pleasing the Father. Such part-time Christian religion only believes in walking with Jesus at times, but not at other times (but still 'by faith alone' fellowshipping with Him all the time).

Such Christians certainly applaud and idolize the man Jesus' life, but judges it impossible and unrealistic to live it too.

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

I reject the sinners doctrine of always sinning and having sin, and yet still being an 'acceptable and justified' member of the body of Christ, while sinning and having sin.

Since you want to speak for everyone else, as well as yourself, then I will do the same.

You say no man on earth can possibly walk as Jesus walked at all times. Sometimes, sure, but hey sinner man, no way all the time.

I say, that no man on earth is a born son of God, while sinning with the devil as an enemy of God. (That includes myself and everyone else on earth)

All the doctrinal hoops necessary to say otherwise, does away with the Father judging every man by our works, without respect of persons.

It gets into all this delusional nonsense about how 'believers' are no longer judged and condemned like 'unbelievers', while doing the same sinful works. Or, 'believers' sinning with the devil in the flesh, are not enemies of God by their works like unbelievers, but are 'friends' of God by faith alone. Or, having sin is simply a 'nature' thing, so that we are still in the light, and having sin in Christ Jesus, in whom is no sin. Etc...

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.

Romans 7 is not saying there are friends of God in the minds alone, while enemies of God by works. The Lord clearly says that such works of the flesh, are only done by His alienated enemies of the mind and life.

And so, now you see the righteous gospel I preach from the words of the Lord I give. I know that you probably feel compelled to declare your continued sinful condition, and think it necessary to chime along about always 'having sin', in order to show the humility-banner of not being 'perfect'. But I can disavow that also by other teachings of the Lord.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility...Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility,

 

[Peterlag]

This is a nonsensical statement that I've heard before. When anyone begins talking about 'spiritual flesh' stuff, then I know that the promotion of a sinners-saved-by-grace gospel is in the offing.

In 2 Cor 7, God is not talking about making our flesh 'spiritual', which is impossible, since there is no such thing as 'spiritual' flesh and blood:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

When God preaches cleansing our spirit and flesh from all filthiness, so that our soul, spirit, and body are blameless in Christ Jesus, the Lord is only commanding His people to live righteously and holily in the spirit and in the flesh. Just like His own dearly beloved Son.

It's just fulfilling the reformation and commandment of Jesus to cleanse within the platter, so that the outside will also be clean.

There is such a thing as being outwardly righteous, while inwardly unclean. However, there is no such thing as being outwardly unrighteous, while being inwardly clean. I thought you taught against spiritual 'purity' with unclean living? Believing to be inwardly righteous by faith alone, while outwardly sinning with the flesh? Maybe I am mistaken.

There is no such thing as fellowshipping with the Lord inwardly, while communing with the devil outwardly.


Right. The mantra of unrighteous Christian religion and living: "Believers are still sinners like unbelievers too, but just forgiven while sinning like unbelievers too."

This is where we part company (*heavy sigh*). There is no sinful member of the body of the sinless Head Jesus Christ. No man while sinning is a member of Jesus' body on earth.

What you are espousing is just the same tired old unbelief of the world and apparently of many Christians alike. It's the sinners' gospel, that does not believe with the heart unto the righteousness of God. (Or at least, not doing His righteousness all the time).

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

The sinful Christian religion (beginning in the days of the apostles (2 Peter 2-)), has never believed any man can cease sinning and walk with Jesus like Jesus, and always pleasing the Father. Such part-time Christian religion only believes in walking with Jesus at times, but not at other times (but still 'by faith alone' fellowshipping with Him all the time).

Such Christians certainly applaud and idolize the man Jesus' life, but judges it impossible and unrealistic to live it too.

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind...

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

I reject the sinners doctrine of always sinning and having sin, and yet still being an 'acceptable and justified' member of the body of Christ, while sinning and having sin.

Since you want to speak for everyone else, as well as yourself, then I will do the same.

You say no man on earth can possibly walk as Jesus walked at all times. Sometimes, sure, but hey sinner man, no way all the time.

I say, that no man on earth is a born son of God, while sinning with the devil as an enemy of God. (That includes myself and everyone else on earth)

All the doctrinal hoops necessary to say otherwise, does away with the Father judging every man by our works, without respect of persons.

It gets into all this delusional nonsense about how 'believers' are no longer judged and condemned like 'unbelievers', while doing the same sinful works. Or, 'believers' sinning with the devil in the flesh, are not enemies of God by their works like unbelievers, but are 'friends' of God by faith alone. Or, having sin is simply a 'nature' thing, so that we are still in the light, and having sin in Christ Jesus, in whom is no sin. Etc...

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.

Romans 7 is not saying there are friends of God in the minds alone, while enemies of God by works. The Lord clearly says that such works of the flesh, are only done by His alienated enemies of the mind and life.

And so, now you see the righteous gospel I preach from the words of the Lord I give. I know that you probably feel compelled to declare your continued sinful condition, and think it necessary to chime along about always 'having sin', in order to show the humility-banner of not being 'perfect'. But I can disavow that also by other teachings of the Lord.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility...Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility,

I'm not sure if you even understood what I wrote. When I wrote...

Most Christians still believe the spirit of Christ makes their flesh spiritual. And this is why they believe their sins are forgiven when they are born again up to that point, but must run to God to confess and repent their new sins every time they sin after becoming a Christian.

I was referring to what most Christians believe. Not what I believe. And most and maybe even you too walk by your flesh and call it spiritual. So please don't tell me that most if not just about almost all of them don't walk by their flesh and call it spiritual because they do.

 

[Ghada]

Most Christians still believe the spirit of Christ makes their flesh spiritual.

If you mean the hypocrites that say they are spiritually pure within, while walking after the flesh, then that is still a Christian heresy since the days of the apostles.

Several variations of it includes no more being condemned while sinning. Being preforgiven of all present and future sinning. Changing the mind only about sinning without repenting, and calling it being in the light.

And this is why they believe their sins are forgiven when they are born again up to that point, but must run to God to confess and repent their new sins every time they sin after becoming a Christian.

Yes, I've heard this accusation against Christian saints who agree, that if we sin, we must repent and confess our sin to be forgiven by God and washed clean by Jesus' blood.

It's usually from those who presume their present and future sins are already forgiven once born again, or rather just converting to sinful Christian religion.

It leads straight to searing the conscience against conviction and judgment of the Spirit for all sinning on earth. They treat the Spirit of grace drawing to repentance and forgiveness, as the devil's spirit of error.

And most and maybe even you too walk by your flesh and call it spiritual.

If you read my plain teaching and even suggest this, then apparently (heavy heavy sigh) you're just another one of those Christians, that just spin the teaching into something ludicrous, so that you produce an excuse not to face the argument head on.

Which we see here, you've not addressed a single point I've made. only give one or two chances. After that I don't continue to waste time responding to one-sided dialogues.

 

[Peterlag]

If you mean the hypocrites that say they are spiritually pure within, while walking after the flesh, then that is still a Christian heresy since the days of the apostles.

Several variations of it includes no more being condemned while sinning. Being preforgiven of all present and future sinning. Changing the mind only about sinning without repenting, and calling it being in the light.



Yes, I've heard this accusation against Christian saints who agree, that if we sin, we must repent and confess our sin to be forgiven by God and washed clean by Jesus' blood.

It's usually from those who presume their present and future sins are already forgiven once born again, or rather just converting to sinful Christian religion.

It leads straight to searing the conscience against conviction and judgment of the Spirit for all sinning on earth. They treat the Spirit of grace drawing to repentance and forgiveness, as the devil's spirit of error.





If you read my plain teaching and even suggest this, then apparently (heavy heavy sigh) you're just another one of those Christians, that just spin the teaching into something ludicrous, so that you produce an excuse not to face the argument head on.

Which we see here, you've not addressed a single point I've made. only give one or two chances. After that I don't continue to waste time responding to one-sided dialogues.

No I don't mean the hypocrites. I mean most Christians simply do not walk in the spirit. They don't know how. They were taught to do so meant to try to clean up their flesh by being more like Jesus or to obey the Bible. Google walking by the spirit and that's what will pop up. The first sign should have been to me that the Catholics taught us what we know about the sin nature and to confess. What have I missed? What point should I have addressed that I did not? Do you not understand I'm talking about the sin nature and that it does not exist in Christ?

 

[GracePeace]

If you mean the hypocrites that say they are spiritually pure within, while walking after the flesh, then that is still a Christian heresy since the days of the apostles.

Several variations of it includes no more being condemned while sinning. Being preforgiven of all present and future sinning. Changing the mind only about sinning without repenting, and calling it being in the light.



Yes, I've heard this accusation against Christian saints who agree, that if we sin, we must repent and confess our sin to be forgiven by God and washed clean by Jesus' blood.

It's usually from those who presume their present and future sins are already forgiven once born again, or rather just converting to sinful Christian religion.

It leads straight to searing the conscience against conviction and judgment of the Spirit for all sinning on earth. They treat the Spirit of grace drawing to repentance and forgiveness, as the devil's spirit of error.





If you read my plain teaching and even suggest this, then apparently (heavy heavy sigh) you're just another one of those Christians, that just spin the teaching into something ludicrous, so that you produce an excuse not to face the argument head on.

Which we see here, you've not addressed a single point I've made. only give one or two chances. After that I don't continue to waste time responding to one-sided dialogues.

Ask him whether the Christians in Romans 11:17-23 were told they could be cut off for unbelief even though they had already believed. He won't answer it. Lol He tries to redefine them as "Gentiles therefore not Christians" but it doesn't matter what he wants to call them, all that matters is Paul says they have faith and that they can be cut off for unbelief. His systematic theology won't allow for this reality, so he just runs in fear though no one pursues.

 

[BlessedPeace]

The Bible declares there is no sin in the man Christ Jesus, which must include His own body members, else the Head be separated from His body, and His body be decapitated from the Head.

The Christian gospel of unrepented sinners with a Christ whose body is full of sinful members, is a gospel separated the sinless Head Jesus Christ.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Such Christian sinners that say they shall have, or must have, or it is impossible not to have sin in them, also have for themselves a gospel and head, that is more than glad to have sin in him and his own body.

I say, let's dispense with all the doctrinal airs and say it like it is: There is no sin in the man Christ Jesus, which includes His own body.

That is not only a Biblical fact, but a huge duh! for any sensible person, that does not believe in headless bodies nor horsemen. Nor in a Frankenstein monster with a different head sewn onto another body.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,

This is not talking about sinful members of a body on earth, that is separated by sin from the sinless Head in heaven, until resurrected into that Head Christ Jesus after the grave.

The man and Head Christ Jesus has His body of His flesh and of His bones, whose only members are repented Christian saints. Only them that now have the sins of the world washed and taken away from our hearts and lives, are members of the body of Jesus Christ, in whom is no sin.

Some Christians also preach that being sons of God pure and newborn as His Son Jesus, with all things now being of God, and nothing of sin and Satan remaining in them, does not happen until after the grave.

Unfortunately then, in the Bible there is no repenting of sinning granted in the grave, but only judgment of our works we lived by unto the end.

If Christians sinners want to prophecy their own fate of sinful dead works unto death, and in the meantime congregate as sinful members of a body of sin on earth, then that is their right as free will creatures created by God.

But claiming to also be sinful members of the sinless Head Jesus Christ, in whom is no sin, makes no sense on earth, whether spiritual or religious. The Spirit of Christ and of the truth of God, is not dysfunctionally operating Jesus' way sinlessly in the mind and Head of Christ, while operating the world's way sinfully in His own body members.

The Head Jesus Christ having no sin does not have a worldly body with sin. The only head for a sinful worldly body is the head of this world, that does certainly have sin in him.

There are many false claims about Jesus.

One is, because he was born of woman he had a sin nature.

Not even twisting Scripture like a pretzel makes that one true.

Then there are those who think he was just a human man that God used to do his work.


And then there is that which teaches Jesus is a flesh,blood,bone human who ascended to Heaven.

 

[Ghada]

No I don't mean the hypocrites. I mean most Christians simply do not walk in the spirit. They don't know how.

It's called not repenting of sinning and still walking after the flesh. No one knows how to walk in the Spirit of Christ, while lusting and sinning with the devil against God. It's not possible. They can be walking after a spirit of error, but not the Spirit of truth.

Learning how to continue walking after the Spirit, and not sinning with the flesh, is called perfecting of the saints. That is by trials of our faith overcoming temptations, persecutions, and tribulations.

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

It's learning continued obedience throughout all such things, rather than falling by disobedience. (In the military it's called being a good and obedient soldier and keeping the standards, while under duress, including life fire. Paul refers to it in Christ Jesus.)

It's the exact same learning of continued obedience by Jesus unto death on the cross.

Those who do repent of sinning, to have faith and power with God from a new pure heart of Christ, learn by continued obedience to remain pure of heart and free from sinning in Him:

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Learning how to walk in the Spirit of God, does not include being a child of disobedience at any time. That is falling from the race entirely. That can only be resolved like any transgressor of the world: Repent, and come by faith to the Advocate of the Father for all the world.

They were taught to do so meant to try to clean up their flesh by being more like Jesus or to obey the Bible.

Once again, anyone sinning unlike Jesus against the Bible, is walking after the flesh and not after the Spirit.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Jesus commands us to wash within the platter as well as the outside. So cleaning up our minds and lives by the Spirit and power of Christ, is what walking in the Spirit and obeying Jesus is all about.

Now, if you are talking about piecemeal repentance, where we only endeavor to 'sin less' than before, then I agree with your rebuke of a conversion to sinful Christian religion.

If you are talking about learning to walk 'in the spirit', while sinning with the flesh, then that is simple spiritual error. I believe the 'Charismatics' own that delusion.

What have I missed? What point should I have addressed that I did not?

Perhaps I am mistaken, and you are trying to respond to the points I make.

Let's back up where we diverged, and address this:

Most Christians still believe the spirit of Christ makes their flesh spiritual.

What is making the flesh 'spiritual', as you understand it from others?

And this is why they believe their sins are forgiven when they are born again up to that point, but must run to God to confess and repent their new sins every time they sin after becoming a Christian.

What do you mean by 'running' to God to repent and confess sinning?

Do you preach being preforgiven of all present and future sinning?

 

[Ghada]

Do you not understand I'm talking about the sin nature and that it does not exist in Christ?

That's because it does not exist at all. I used to believe Christians have their born 'sin nature' eradicated by the new divine nature, when repenting of dead works, and being born of God in Christ Jesus. Now, I just eradicate the whole Christian tradition of being born with any such thing in the first place.

Point by point rejection of there being any spiritually invisible nor molecularly unseen 'sin nature', anywhere in heaven or earth:

1. Christ makes all things naturally visible and spiritually invisible. (John 1)

There is no sin thingy put in natural bodies by Christ at conception. Noe did He do so in the spiritual bodies of angels, so that Lucifer sinned by it. Nor did He ever put it into man's seed and blood. Christ the Maker of all things visible and invisible, does not make anything with sin in it.

The only 'invisible' sin, that's not seen by the natural eye nor heard by the natural ear, is the sinning of angels, and the lusting of men's hearts. But God sees it all, when it is being done, and only when it's being done.

IF God 'sees sin' in any natural thing on earth, it's only if Christ put it there in the making. Not.

2. God is not the tempter of man to sin, but putting sin in man's seed, flesh, and/or blood. No man sins because God "made him that way". (James 1)

3. Sin only enters into and is in the world, because and while men and women are sinning. The death of separation from God passes upon all men by sinning. Sin does not pass upon any man by inheritance through spirit or flesh. (Rom 5:12)

We see sin in the world, only when we see the sinning. And we also see sin in our own hearts, when we see ourselves lusting.

4. Even as where no law is, there is no trasngression, so where no sinning is, there is no sin. Those having sin, only have it, because they are lusting and sinning. Knowing sin is only by doing it, even as knowing one's husband and wife.

Sin can be a noun describing trespass against God. But sin is never a noun without the verb of doing it. There is no such thing as an invisible unseen sin 'nature' or 'substance' or 'spirit', that exists independently of the act of sinning.

It's like speaking of air and water molecules, where there is no air nor water. Like having DNA without a body.

The Christian sinners' sacred tradition of having sin by natural birth, has no more Bible substance to it, than the Virgin Mother Mary with Sacred Womb.

It's nothing more than just an obvious excuse for continued sinning, while naming the name of Christ. And we see this by the fact that every Christian believing and teaching it, also ministers continued sinning for life for all Christians. And it is by unbelief of heart: they say because of the 'sin nature' (that Christ Himself must have put into man's seed, flesh, or spirit), it is therefore impossible for them to walk as the man Jesus walked.

It also leads to the mythical christ made of an unnatural immortal and super human bod. Now that may be a truly Herculean bod indeed, but it's not a christ any natural born man and woman can possibly follow.

You see the circular justification of wrapping arms around this itty bitty unseen mystical snake called Mr Sin Nature. (I perhaps should write an variation of Pilgrim's Progress)

 

[Ghada]

And then there is that which teaches Jesus is a flesh,blood,bone human who ascended to Heaven.

Ok. I'll bite. Jesus was not still with His immortal resurrected flesh and bones, that He had with the disciples for 40 days, when He ascended in their sight, until a cloud recieved Him? (Perhaps the same cloud on the transfiguration mount)

 

[Ghada]

Ask him whether the Christians in Romans 11:17-23 were told they could be cut off for unbelief even though they had already believed. He won't answer it.

You obviously know more from him than me. I'm sure he call also speak for himself about it.

Lol He tries to redefine them as "Gentiles therefore not Christians"

Seriously? I thought the notion of 'Gentile and Jew' Christians went out the window, when God said there is no such thing in His body, whether Jew, Greek, Scythian, Barbarian, even make and female.

it doesn't mean that there aren't barbarian and female Christians, it just means such labels do not apply in His churches, as though that makes any member of His body somehow inherently different, whether better or worse.

It's only the Spirit and blood of Jesus Christ flowing though the members of His flesh and bones.

Natural flesh and blood and national will of man have nothing to do with being born of God.

His systematic theology won't allow for this reality,

Do you mean the point by point making of doctrine, that suspends the truth of the Bible and the reality of walking in the Spirit vs the flesh?

 

[Ghada]

which is why it can be said "there is no condemnation" for those "in Christ",

Amen. Many unrepented sinful Christians skip the condition for the conclusion.

It's basically the sinners' Christian religion of having faith toward God for salvation, without first repenting of dead works.

The Bible gospel commands all men everywhere to repent, and believe His gospel. The unbiblical Christian religion just commands to believe the gospel. It's the 'faith alone' salvation apart from how we live.

Inner spirituality with outer corruption. The opposite of Pharisees with out righteousness and inner corruption.

God and Jesus say to cleanse both inwardly and outwardly:

Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[GracePeace]

You obviously know more from him than me. I'm sure he call also speak for himself about it.


Seriously? I thought the notion of 'Gentile and Jew' Christians went out the window, when God said there is no such thing in His body, whether Jew, Greek, Scythian, Barbarian, even make and female.

it doesn't mean that there aren't barbarian and female Christians, it just means such labels do not apply in His churches, as though that makes any member of His body somehow inherently different, whether better or worse.

It's only the Spirit and blood of Jesus Christ flowing though the members of His flesh and bones.

Natural flesh and blood and national will of man have nothing to do with being born of God.


Do you mean the point by point making of doctrine, that suspends the truth of the Bible and the reality of walking in the Spirit vs the flesh?

The crazy thing is the dude REFUSES to interact on the issue when pressed. He can't handle the heat! Lol

 

[Ghada]

The crazy thing is the dude REFUSES to interact on the issue when pressed. He can't handle the heat! Lol

We'll see. I do as Paul says, and give anyone a couple of tries. But, you're right. Obfuscation must be given up on, It's a matter of debate honor and integrity of character.

 

[Peterlag]

That's because it does not exist at all. I used to believe Christians have their born 'sin nature' eradicated by the new divine nature, when repenting of dead works, and being born of God in Christ Jesus. Now, I just eradicate the whole Christian tradition of being born with any such thing in the first place.

Point by point rejection of there being any spiritually invisible nor molecularly unseen 'sin nature', anywhere in heaven or earth:

1. Christ makes all things naturally visible and spiritually invisible. (John 1)

There is no sin thingy put in natural bodies by Christ at conception. Noe did He do so in the spiritual bodies of angels, so that Lucifer sinned by it. Nor did He ever put it into man's seed and blood. Christ the Maker of all things visible and invisible, does not make anything with sin in it.

The only 'invisible' sin, that's not seen by the natural eye nor heard by the natural ear, is the sinning of angels, and the lusting of men's hearts. But God sees it all, when it is being done, and only when it's being done.

IF God 'sees sin' in any natural thing on earth, it's only if Christ put it there in the making. Not.

2. God is not the tempter of man to sin, but putting sin in man's seed, flesh, and/or blood. No man sins because God "made him that way". (James 1)

3. Sin only enters into and is in the world, because and while men and women are sinning. The death of separation from God passes upon all men by sinning. Sin does not pass upon any man by inheritance through spirit or flesh. (Rom 5:12)

We see sin in the world, only when we see the sinning. And we also see sin in our own hearts, when we see ourselves lusting.

4. Even as where no law is, there is no trasngression, so where no sinning is, there is no sin. Those having sin, only have it, because they are lusting and sinning. Knowing sin is only by doing it, even as knowing one's husband and wife.

Sin can be a noun describing trespass against God. But sin is never a noun without the verb of doing it. There is no such thing as an invisible unseen sin 'nature' or 'substance' or 'spirit', that exists independently of the act of sinning.

It's like speaking of air and water molecules, where there is no air nor water. Like having DNA without a body.

The Christian sinners' sacred tradition of having sin by natural birth, has no more Bible substance to it, than the Virgin Mother Mary with Sacred Womb.

It's nothing more than just an obvious excuse for continued sinning, while naming the name of Christ. And we see this by the fact that every Christian believing and teaching it, also ministers continued sinning for life for all Christians. And it is by unbelief of heart: they say because of the 'sin nature' (that Christ Himself must have put into man's seed, flesh, or spirit), it is therefore impossible for them to walk as the man Jesus walked.

It also leads to the mythical christ made of an unnatural immortal and super human bod. Now that may be a truly Herculean bod indeed, but it's not a christ any natural born man and woman can possibly follow.

You see the circular justification of wrapping arms around this itty bitty unseen mystical snake called Mr Sin Nature. (I perhaps should write an variation of Pilgrim's Progress)

I started reading this post to see if you knew anything that I did not since I'm interested in this subject. I even looked up every word for "sin" in the New Testament and then wrote about all of them in one night. Yeah, I'm that good. But, I could be wrong. Perhaps missing something. Lord knows I have been wrong before. I have it down to this...

1.) You can have all the sin you want while you walk in your old man dead flesh.
2.) But you have no sin when you walk in him. Because there's no sin in him.

The problem I have is I can't get anyone to see what I see when we walk in him. This is because our culture is embedded in the Catholic doctrine of what a sin nature is.

 

[GracePeace]

We'll see. I do as Paul says, and give anyone a couple of tries. But, you're right. Obfuscation must be given up on, It's a matter of debate honor and integrity of character.

I'll find our former conversation (it's been locked, bc nothing remained of the others' views that hadn't been answered, they're were just mulling around, hurling insults and doing other empty talking--anything but answering to the Scripture). Lol

 

[Peterlag]

It's called not repenting of sinning and still walking after the flesh. No one knows how to walk in the Spirit of Christ, while lusting and sinning with the devil against God. It's not possible. They can be walking after a spirit of error, but not the Spirit of truth.

Learning how to continue walking after the Spirit, and not sinning with the flesh, is called perfecting of the saints. That is by trials of our faith overcoming temptations, persecutions, and tribulations.

Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

It's learning continued obedience throughout all such things, rather than falling by disobedience. (In the military it's called being a good and obedient soldier and keeping the standards, while under duress, including life fire. Paul refers to it in Christ Jesus.)

It's the exact same learning of continued obedience by Jesus unto death on the cross.

Those who do repent of sinning, to have faith and power with God from a new pure heart of Christ, learn by continued obedience to remain pure of heart and free from sinning in Him:

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Learning how to walk in the Spirit of God, does not include being a child of disobedience at any time. That is falling from the race entirely. That can only be resolved like any transgressor of the world: Repent, and come by faith to the Advocate of the Father for all the world.

Once again, anyone sinning unlike Jesus against the Bible, is walking after the flesh and not after the Spirit.

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Jesus commands us to wash within the platter as well as the outside. So cleaning up our minds and lives by the Spirit and power of Christ, is what walking in the Spirit and obeying Jesus is all about.

Now, if you are talking about piecemeal repentance, where we only endeavor to 'sin less' than before, then I agree with your rebuke of a conversion to sinful Christian religion.

If you are talking about learning to walk 'in the spirit', while sinning with the flesh, then that is simple spiritual error. I believe the 'Charismatics' own that delusion.


Perhaps I am mistaken, and you are trying to respond to the points I make.

Let's back up where we diverged, and address this:



What is making the flesh 'spiritual', as you understand it from others?




What do you mean by 'running' to God to repent and confess sinning?

Do you preach being preforgiven of all present and future sinning?

Read my paper and tell me where I'm wrong... www.carb-fat.com/walking-by-the-spirit.html

It's only a few pages.

 

[GracePeace]

We'll see. I do as Paul says, and give anyone a couple of tries. But, you're right. Obfuscation must be given up on, It's a matter of debate honor and integrity of character.

Lol look at him run away after he gets disproven Abiding In Christ Necessary for Eternal Life

 

[Ghada]

Read my paper and tell me where I'm wrong... www.carb-fat.com/walking-by-the-spirit.html

It's only a few pages.

I don't send people off to read elsewhere. We deal with each other one on one:

What do you mean by 'running' to God to repent and confess sinning?

Do you preach being preforgiven of all present and future sinning?