Say what?And if you're Catholic. Then I will have to end this conversation.
You refuse to talk to Catholics? Why?
What a hate-filled thing to say!
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Say what?And if you're Catholic. Then I will have to end this conversation.
I'm not catholic... and neither was Justin Martyr.Your historians and instructions from the 2nd century are all about the Catholics and not the Church of God. And if you're Catholic. Then I will have to end this conversation.
Whatever anyone was saying about what went on in the 2nd century were not talking about the Christian doctrine. They were talking about the Catholic doctrine and practices.I'm not catholic... and neither was Justin Martyr.
Say what?
You refuse to talk to Catholics? Why?
What a hate-filled thing to say!
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You need to study history. Justin was born in Samaria at a time before any Pope of Rome had come to political power.Whatever anyone was saying about what went on in the 2nd century were not talking about the Christian doctrine. They were talking about the Catholic doctrine and practices.
Why would you refuse to talk to Catholics?Only in your mind is it hate. In my mind it is not.
Why would you refuse to talk to Catholics?
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You need to study history. Justin was born in Samaria at a time before any Pope of Rome had come to political power.
Perhaps in your declared ignorance, you are wrong about them. ???Because I do not agree with what they believe. Nor do I understand it. Thus, I would not know where to begin to try to unravel their religious concepts.
Have you noticed I have never been nasty to you or attacked you personally? I have never told you or implied that you were ignorant or that you should learn how to read the Bible better or that you should read before speaking or any of the other negative insulting ways you have treated me. Wise men say that you lost the debate when you can no longer discuss the issues but find yourself attacking the other guy personally.Perhaps in your declared ignorance, you are wrong about them. ???
Sometimes our task is to understand the other believer rather than prove them wrong.
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What is the spirit baptism?? it is that of Acts 2:38.
Why? Because it is the one that John said Jesus would baptize with. It is the one that is for every person on earth. It is the one that remits sin and gives the indwelling spirit. It is the one of Romans 6:3ff It is the one that Jesus authorized. It is the one that all the conversions in Acts tells about.
Well then what about the power of witness that gives signs as tongues and such? Only twice and no other time do we read of it supernaturally coming upon anyone and that was Acts 2 on the Apostles only then on the gentiles in Acts 10 and it was for a sign to the unbelievers that God is using those for a purpose. The Apostles to spread the gospel and the gentiles to prove to the Jews that it is time to bring in the gentiles.
Any other time the gift was transferred it had to be done by the laying on of the Apostles hands. it was not for all but for those that were chosen as shepherds in the new church plants to grow the church in the Apostles absences. It is not was not and will not be for everyone but the indwelling given only through the baptism in Christ name is for every one that calls upon the Lord.
Chapter and verse in Acts?What is the spirit baptism?? it is that of Acts 2:38... It is the one that remits sin...
You forgot the Ephesian speaking in tongues (19:1-6) and thus miss the 4-fold pattern discussed abovOnly twice and no other time do we read of it supernaturally coming upon anyone...
Acts 2:38 and no I did not forget Acts 19:6 it did not happen supernaturally but by Paul laying hands on them after he converted them (Acts 19:1-5) by the baptism in Christ name ( Acts 2:38) and it was because Paul just planted the church of Ephesus so he transferred the power of witness so they could be shepherds in the new church so he would be free to go spread the gospel.Chapter and verse in Acts?
You forgot the Ephesian speaking in tongues (19:1-6) and thus miss the 4-fold pattern discussed abov
I agree with everything but one small glitch. The first laying on of hand happened in Acts 6 when The Apostles chose some to shepherd the church so they could go spread the gospel.What is the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit? None
The apostles were promised it, Luke 24:49,
- Jesus: Behold I send the promise of My Father upon you but tarry in Jerusalem until you(apostles) are endued with power from on high
John was speaking to the apostles when he said specifically to them,
Mark 1:8,
- I indeed baptized you with water but Jesus will baptize you(the apostles) with the Holy Spirit
Those who claim this HS baptism is for all believers are too careless in their meditation on the scriptures. Really, they probably dont really mediate on Gods word.
Now what was the Apostles evidence?
This promise is going to the apostles only IN JERSUSELM ON PENTECOST!!!
You were not in Jerusalem as Jesus commanded the apostles must be there to receive the baptism of the HS.
Now the apostles get it,
Acts 1:7,8
- Jesus: it is not for you(apostles) to know the times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority
But you(apostles) shall receive power when the HS comes upon you(apostles) and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth
None of us witnessed Jesus' ressurection as the apostles did!
None of us were in Jerusalem on pentecost.
None of us witnessed in all of Judea.
None of us witnessed to the end of the earth.
Now here is the evidence of Holy Spirit baptism,
Acts 2:1-3,
- when the day of penetcost had fully come, they(apostles) were all with one accord in one place
And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind EVIDENCE
and IT filled the whole house where they were sitting
Then there appeared to them divided tongues as of fire EVIDENCE
and one sat upon each one of them EVEDENCE
And they(apostles) were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues EVIDENCE
as the Spirit gave them utterance
Now most all claim all in the upper room all 120 received HS baptism.
You must carefully read ALL of Acts chapter 1 and Acts chapter 2
You must pay extremely close attention to the PRONOUNS being used.
You will learn that it is MEN FROM GALILEE that are the ones receiving the promise Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit.
Listen to who only was speaking in tongues,
Acts 2:1-7; 7,
- then all were amazed and marveled saying to one another, Look, are not ALL these that speak GALILAEANS
Go back to Acts 1:10-11,
- who said MEN OF GALILEE, why do you stand gazing up into heaven
This same Jesus who was taken up from you into heaven will so come in like manner
as you saw Him go into heaven
Did anyone here have a visible fire that sat upon them and a sound of a mighty rushing wind?
Where any of you told to be in Jerusalem when this power from on high would take place?
Where is your EVIDENCE? There is none
What do the saved receive from the Holy Spirit today?
Acts 2:38,
- Then Peter said to them, repent and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit
For the promise is to you and to your children and to all who are afar off as many as the Lord our God will call
The gift is given by the Holy Spirit.
The gift is not the Holy Spirit Himself!
This gift given by the Holy Spirit is promised to all who repent and are baptized for the remission of their sins.
Romans 6:23,
- for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord
1John 2:25,
- and this is the promise that God has promised us, eternal life
Dont confuse miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit with baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Gifts of the Holy Spirit only occured by the laying on of the apostles hands,
No one in Acts chapter 2 those 3000 Jews that were saved on pentecost got miraculous gifts from the Holy Spirit.
The reason why is because gifts of the Holy Spirit only began in Acts chapter 8!!!
That's the first time the apostles laid hands on others to impart miraculous gifts.
Acts 8:14-15,16,17
- now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them,
Who when they had come down prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit
for He had fallen upon none of them, they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus
Then they(apostles) laid hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit
Notice this multitude was already SAVED!!! Yet did not even have the Holy Spirit,
Acts 8:5,
- then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them
And the multitude with one accord HEEDED the things spoken by Philip hearing and seeing the miracles which he did
Verse 12
- but when they BELIEVED Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ both men and women were baptized(water baptism)
We receive the gift of the Holy Spirit today when we believe and obey the gospel of Jesus Christ.
We are promised eternal life not Holy Spirit baptism.
Those in Acts 8 were saved yet still had not received any miraculous gift of the HS until the apostles came and laid hands on them. Proving the doctrine of recieving Holy Spirit baptism the moment you believe in Jesus to be false.
Excellent observation!!!! Very impressed you knew that!!!I agree with everything but one small glitch. The first laying on of hand happened in Acts 6 when The Apostles chose some to shepherd the church so they could go spread the gospel.