Soul vs SPIRIT

[rwb]

I would argue that is water baptism, but I do expect some to deny that, even though foolish to do so. But the point I really want to make here is that all of this is described as happening through faith in God. That says, to me at least, that regeneration happens through faith in God. That is proof positive that faith comes before regeneration. I would thus argue that regeneration, which happens in God's act of salvation, is by grace through faith in (water) baptism.

Colossians 2:10-12 (KJV) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

The baptism here is not water, because water cannot cleanse us inside, nor can it put off the body of sins of the flesh, which comes by the circumcision of Christ. Just as Christ circumcises our heart, making us clean within, being buried with Him in baptism that eternally saves that comes only from the Holy Spirit of Christ, not by water.

Matthew 3:11 (KJV) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

 

[rwb]

In my view, "dead" means "condemned to die" in that context.

Yes, I understand what you think it means. I don't agree the context agrees with your pov.

 

[JBO]

Not exactly! Faith comes as the gift of salvation which is by grace through faith! Faith to believe Christ is not something mankind in unbelief possesses, which is why we must be born again.

first, faith is not a gift. Second the reason we must be born again is to regenerate our spirits to a live condition as it was when we were born the first time. That is why it is call born again. The is why it is called REgenerate. Our spirits were alive when God formed them in us, then our spirits became dead when we trespassed and sinned and thus needed to be made alive again, i.e., regenerated, reborn.

 

[JBO]

Colossians 2:10-12 (KJV) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

The baptism here is not water, because water cannot cleanse us inside, nor can it put off the body of sins of the flesh, which comes by the circumcision of Christ. Just as Christ circumcises our heart, making us clean within, being buried with Him in baptism that eternally saves that comes only from the Holy Spirit of Christ, not by water.

Matthew 3:11 (KJV) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

It is not by water; it is in water. That is the time, the occasion in life, when God forgives us our sins and gives us the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Luke,, in the occasion of the Ethiopian Eunuch clearly states it is baptism in water. Peter, in referencing the water of Noah and the ark, makes it apparent that baptism is in water. And there is no instance of baptism spoken of by Paul or any of the other writers that baptism is anything other than water.

And in the Colossians passage you cited, the description of "buried" with him in baptism and "raised" with him through faith clearly speaks to physical immersion in water.

 

[rwb]

first, faith is not a gift. Second the reason we must be born again is to regenerate our spirits to a live condition as it was when we were born the first time. That is why it is call born again. The is why it is called REgenerate. Our spirits were alive when God formed them in us, then our spirits became dead when we trespassed and sinned and thus needed to be made alive again, i.e., regenerated, reborn.

I agree, faith is not the gift. Salvation is the gift of eternal life for all who believe in Christ. How do those who are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins believe in Christ....wait for it, by grace through faith (((the gift of God))) that no man may boast. The faith we receive to believe in Christ cannot be found in unregenerate mankind! Faith to believe comes from hearing the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit. We must be born again because sin has left all mankind spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. Once we have everlasting life through the Word and Spirit, the faith we received through God's grace enables us to believe or if you prefer show we have received saving faith as we repent of our sins and turn to Christ.

 

[rwb]

It is not by water; it is in water. That is the time, the occasion in life, when God forgives us our sins and gives us the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Luke,, in the occasion of the Ethiopian Eunuch clearly states it is baptism in water. Peter, in referencing the water of Noah and the ark, makes it apparent that baptism is in water. And there is no instance of baptism spoken of by Paul or any of the other writers that baptism is anything other than water.

And in the Colossians passage you cited, the description of "buried" with him in baptism and "raised" with him through faith clearly speaks to physical immersion in water.

Christ forgave our sin when He gave His life to atone for sin. Water gets us wet, and by submitting to the ordinance of water baptism believers acknowledge they are no longer of this world, and have been separated from the world. We received the Holy Spirit when we were born again. The Ethiopian eunuch heard the Word of God by the power of the Holy Sprit and by grace through faith was saved. Then he desired to be baptized in water as evidence he was no longer of the world. Noah was not saved in water, but through the water. A picture of baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves us. It is through baptism of the Holy Spirit that mankind is saved, not IN water.

You do err, not knowing the Scriptures. John the Baptist very clearly speaks of the One who would come after him, being mightier than he who would baptize with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Peterlag]

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What is the difference between your soul and your Spirit. ?

Lots of confusion about this, so, lets clear it up.
And as a matter of fact, if you teach S-School, then you should learn this teaching and let your student have it.


1.) Man is "body, soul, and Spirit" = 3

He is "tri-part", exactly as God is Triune. or 3 in One.

God said.. "let US make man in OUR image", and this is 3, including the Holy Spirit.

So, a 3 in One Godhead, created a Tri-part Adam, who is "body, soul, Spirit".

What is that?

2 ) It means, you are a Spirit, you have a soul, and you live in a body.

What is the soul?

The soul is the : "mind, will, and emotions".

What is the Spirit" ?

The Sprit is the real you, that has to be born again.
The Spirit is what goes to HELL if its not born again.
The born again Spirit is the "Son/Daughter" of God, that is the "new creation in Christ".

3.) In the Garden of Eden, .....Adam was Spiritually separated from God.. He "ate the apple" and lost "Spiritual union". And the Bible defines this as "death".
However, Its not death, as in, ended or ceased to exist....... Its death in the since of being separated from God's Spirit, which is LIFE.
See, "God is A Spirit" and Christianity is Spiritual, and to become separated from GOD" LIFE< is to be dead from IT.
See that?

This is : 1st Spiritual Death ("In Adam we all die")...... and the 2nd Death, is to go to Hell, and exist in spiritual separation from God, forever.

Jesus, who is the 2nd Adam, came to offer Himself to us all as the Blood Atonement,, and this allows us to be BORN AGAIN.. which is to return to the eternal Spiritual Union with GOD.... that 1st Adam lost.

I was taught the soul is breath life. That which makes the body alive and nothing more. I can see how mind, will, and emotions could all be turned on when there's a soul involved. But you lost me on the spirit. There's no verse that says the spirit of God goes to Hell. Or that there's even a hell other then the lake of fire.

 

[Ritajanice]

God draws us to Jesus, he even brought me to believe in Jesus ( not saying he believed for me,I did that) there must be Baptism in the Living Holy Spirit, when by the power of God, He brings our spirit Alive in Christ...Spirit gives birth to spirit...

Born from above/ Born Again is a “ Living” spiritual birth...a gift that only God can do through his Spirit.

The carnal mind couldn’t understand this, because they are still in darkness and sin....they can only understand in their own human understanding, ...without that life giving Holy Spirit you are none of His.......only the Holy Spirit can open up Gods word to us as he speaks to our spirit as He is Spirit.......all Glory of understanding the word of God, comes via the Holy Spirit......” YOU ARE NOTHING WITHOUT HIM”......only Gods Spirit can testify his truth to our spirit, as we are Born Again/ children of God.....my testimony and belief.


Online commentary.


Quia isto articulo stante stat Ecclesia, ruente ruit Ecclesia.

Martin Luther penned those Latin words to magnify the importance of sola fide (the doctrine of justification by faith alone). Roughly translated, Luther is saying, “If this article [of justification] stands, the church stands; if this article collapses, the church collapses.” Luther had good reason to place such weighty importance on this precious truth. Salvation by faith alone—apart from works—is the biblical truth that separates Christianity and every other religion.

Saving faith is distinct from every works-righteous system because it isn’t the result of human effort. In the same way that repentance is granted by God (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25), faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9 affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Our response in salvation is faith, but even that is “not of [ourselves], it is the gift of God.” Faith is nothing that we do in our own power or by our own resources. In the first place, we do not have adequate power or resources. Moreover, God would not want us to rely on them even if we had them. Otherwise salvation would be in part by our own works, and we would have some ground to boast in ourselves. Paul’s emphasis in Ephesians 2:8 is that even faith does not come from us apart from God’s giving it. Human effort has nothing to do with it (cf.Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16), and thus no one should boast, as if he contributed any part.

Spiritually dead, we were helpless until God intervened to quicken us: “Even when we were dead in our transgressions, [God] made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)” (Ephesians 2:5). Faith is an integral part of the gift His grace bestowed on us.

Scripture consistently teaches that faith is not conjured up by the human will but is a sovereignly granted gift of God. Jesus said, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him” (John 6:44). And “No one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father” (John 6:65). Acts 3:16 speaks of “the faith which comes through Him.” Philippians 1:29 says, “To you it has been granted for Christ’s sake . . . to believe in Him.” And Peter wrote to fellow believers as “those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours” (2 Peter 1:1).

How do we know that faith is God’s gift? Left to ourselves, no one would ever believe: “There is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God” (Romans 3:11). “So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy” (Romans 9:16). God draws the sinner to Christ and gives the ability to believe. Without that divinely generated faith, one cannot understand and approach the Savior. “A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised” (1 Corinthians 2:14). That is precisely why when Peter affirmed his faith in Christ as the Son of God, Jesus told him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 16:17). Faith is graciously given to believers by God himself.

As a divine gift, faith is neither transient nor impotent. It has an abiding quality that guarantees that it will endure to the end. The familiar words of Habakkuk 2:4, “The righteous will live by his faith” (cf. Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; Hebrews 10:38), speak not of a momentary act of believing, but of a living, enduring trust in God. Hebrews 3:14 emphasizes the permanence of genuine faith. Its very durability is proof of its reality: “We have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end.” The faith God gives can never evaporate. And the work of salvation cannot ultimately be thwarted (cf. John 10:27–29). In Philippians 1:6 Paul wrote, “I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus” (cf. 1 Corinthians 1:8; Colossians 1:22–23).

For those reasons, saving faith is nothing like the fickleness of wavering human belief. It is as enduring and unchanging as the God who grants it.

 

[Ritajanice]

​

◄ John 3 ►

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Jesus and Nicodemus (Genesis 22:1–10; Romans 5:6–11) 1Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews.2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs You are doing if God were not with him.” 3Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.a” 4“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘Youb must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes. You hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” 9“How can this be?” Nicodemus asked. 10“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and you do not understand these things?11Truly, truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, and yet you people do not accept our testimony. 12If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.c 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.d 16For God so loved the world that He gave His one and onlye Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.18Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.”f John’s Testimony about Jesus 22After this, Jesus and His disciples went into the Judean countryside, where He spent some time with them and baptized. 23Now John was also baptizing at Aenon near Salim, because the water was plentiful there, and people kept coming to be baptized. 24(For John had not yet been thrown into prison.) 25Then a dispute arose between John’s disciples and a certain Jewg over the issue of ceremonial washing. 26So John’s disciples came to him and said, “Look, Rabbi, the One who was with you beyond the Jordan, the One you testified about—He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.” 27John replied, “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. 28You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’29The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom stands and listens for him, and is overjoyed to hear the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. 30He must increase; I must decrease. 31The One who comes from above is above all. The one who is from the earth belongs to the earth and speaks as one from the earth. The One who comes from heaven is above all.h 32He testifies to what He has seen and heard, yet no one accepts His testimony. 33Whoever accepts His testimony has certified that God is truthful. 34For the One whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. 35The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in His hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”i

Jesus testified of the Father when he walked here on earth.


For the Born Again....the Holy Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are children of God....as we walk the earth....we are HIS, we belong to HIM and our lives are dedicated to the Lord and NO other....my testimony and belief.


A Born Again may wander off, they can NEVER be un- birthed from the Holy Spirit.....NEVER......the carnal mind could never understand this and we know why.

 

[JBO]

Not exactly! Faith comes as the gift of salvation which is by grace through faith! Faith to believe Christ is not something mankind in unbelief possesses, which is why we must be born again.

I just showed you in Reply #398 that you are wrong. One needs faith to be born again.

 

[Ritajanice]

Is belief in Jesus, which must come first...the same as Spirit gives birth to spirit?

No it’s not...how can one have Faith without the rebirth/ Born of God..a testifying with our spirit that we are Gods children..without Spirit gives birth to spirit.

It’s just mere human Faith and human/ carnal understanding of Gods word..therefore that person is still in darkness and sin,,,only being able to rely on “ self knowledge “ of Gods word...that is why we are told to test the spirits.

Belief in Jesus, then through Gods mercy and grace, regenerates our spirit, brings them Alive in His Spirit....then we have God given Faith through the testifying of the Holy Spirit , when he testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children.....Spirit gives birth to spirit...then and only then can we walk in Faith.

As we are Born Again/ Born of God......

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes, I understand what you think it means. I don't agree the context agrees with your pov.

Can you state your reasons for disagreement?

 

[JBO]

I agree, faith is not the gift. Salvation is the gift of eternal life for all who believe in Christ. How do those who are spiritually dead in trespasses and sins believe in Christ....wait for it, by grace through faith (((the gift of God))) that no man may boast. The faith we receive to believe in Christ cannot be found in unregenerate mankind! Faith to believe comes from hearing the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit. We must be born again because sin has left all mankind spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. Once we have everlasting life through the Word and Spirit, the faith we received through God's grace enables us to believe or if you prefer show we have received saving faith as we repent of our sins and turn to Christ.

Again with that seriously ridiculous phrase, "faith to believe". That phrase doesn't exist in scripture. The concept doesn't exist in scripture. There is no distinction between faith in God and belief in God in the scripture. That is because they are the exact same words in scripture.

 

[Taken]

-
What is the difference between your soul and your Spirit. ?

Lots of confusion about this, so, lets clear it up.
And as a matter of fact, if you teach S-School, then you should learn this teaching and let your student have it.


1.) Man is "body, soul, and Spirit" = 3

He is "tri-part", exactly as God is Triune. or 3 in One.

God said.. "let US make man in OUR image", and this is 3, including the Holy Spirit.

So, a 3 in One Godhead, created a Tri-part Adam, who is "body, soul, Spirit".

What is that?

2 ) It means, you are a Spirit, you have a soul, and you live in a body.

Earthy man IS a “spirit”?
Disagree.

God IS a Spirit, and Gods Has 7 Spirits that are all the same One Spirit.

Man IS a body. Wonderfully MADE, (with numerous intricate parts) by the Hand of God.
Mans body has Life. Mans Life is his BLOOD. Man gives man a Name (identity).

Man has a soul IN him. The soul is given a mans Body, YET the soul belongs to God. The souls LIFE is Gods Breath. The souls Life belongs to God. The soul has a name, which is the same Name (identifier) as the mans Name.

Man has a “natural spirit”. It is the mans “natural truth” in his “hearts thoughts”.

The mans “natural spirit”….and the mans “natural mind”….have a CLOSE parallel intended purpose….
Each TO gather information/knowledge….
From multiple sources.

The “gathering” of information/knowledge IS MADE possible, BY, THROUGH, OF….God having given THAT BODY…A SOUL.
The SOUL…once given a man (BODY)…
Activates, (brings into LIVING)…very important aspects OF the Body, that ALLOWS for “information/knowledge” GATHERING….via “communication” of receiving and giving.
Eyes……..SEE
Nose…….SMELLS
Mouth…..UTTERS sounds
Tongue…TASTES
Flesh……FEELS

As the SENSES ^^ are operating, information/knowledge begins being “gathered”….

Where to “STORE” the “gathered and CONTINUAL gathering of Information” (for use, for reference) ?

** the MIND
** the HEART

DIFFERENCES?
** the MIND will receive and will store, truths, lies, guesswork, etc.
** the HEART will ONLY store assured TRUTHS.

God Created a BODY, without a mans Request, Permission or Agreement TO BE Created.

CREATED ….the FORM of DUST.

God Made a BODY, without a mans Request, Permission or Agreement TO BE Made.

MADE ….the SOUL given.

WHAT….(information/knowledge) the MIND gathers; and
WHAT….(information/knowledge) the HEART gathers;
IS…by happenstance, interest, “freewill choosing”, force …
IS…routinely ongoing during the mans body’s entire BLOOD life living existence.

An “offering” From God,
and
Mans freewill Option to “agree, take, receive, possess” Gods Offering…..
or
“decline, reject, not take, not receive, not possess” Gods Offering.

AN “Offering”…Between man AND man;
Requires the man TO Agree…BY…WHAT?
His Word? Yes
His Signature? (routinely…Yes)
What is the Offering? (Multiple things, for work, loans, credit cards, purchase of goods, purchase of services, partnerships, marriages, etc.)

AN “Offering”…Between God AND man;
Requires the man To Agree…BY…WHAT?
His Word? Yes
His Word from his Mind? No
His Word from his Heart? Yes
His Signature? No
His Body’s LIFE freely given unto Death for and unto God? Yes
What is the Offering?
* Forgiveness…for what? For having NOT believed.
* Restoring the soul…from what to what? From corrupt (unbelieving, not good) TO (believing, BACK to “very good”, as it WAS when gave it into your body.)
* Promise to Keep…your soul “very good”…How? By Gods Power.
* Promise to Keep…Gods LIFE IN “your soul” forever.
* Promise to Circumcise your Heart…huh?
What? Cut off your “old nature truths in your Heart, ABOUT God”...huh?
Why? For “anew MAKING”…huh?
What new “Making” ?
Gods “new Making”…huh?
What is that? Gods TRUTH.
How? Mans Heart MADE anew.
How? Power of God.
Why? Gods Offering and your agreement.
How? Mans anew Heart GIVEN “God SEED”.
What is Gods Seed? Christ.
What does Gods SEED DO?
Re-BIRTHS a mans “natural truth” to Gods “spiritual Truth”.
How? By Gods Power.
What is Gods Power? Christ.
What is Gods Truth? His Word.
What is Gods Word? Jesus
What does that mans anew born SPIRIT have in it?
Gods Spirit of Gods Seed………Christ.
Gods Spirit of Gods Power…….Christ.
Gods Spirit of Gods Life………..Jesus.
Gods Spirit of Gods Word……..Jesus.
Gods Spirit of Gods Truth……..Jesus.
Gods Spirit of Gods Wisdom….Christ.

God is not MAKING man “A SPIRIT”….
God is MAKING His Spirit…MAKE the mans spirit ALIVE, once and forever.
Why?
COMMUNICATION, between God and that man…and That man and God.
For How Long? Forever.

God IS Spirit. Any Communication WITH God, is ONLY and EXPRESSLY, from a spirit TO His Spirit, and from His Spirit TO a spirit.

Angels are spirits. They CAN sin Against God. They have NO offering for Forgiveness of their sins Against God.

ManKIND is a body. The Body of man Can sin Against God. They have AN offering From God (called a WAY), for Forgiveness of their sins Against God.

ManKIND has an OFFERING From God, to cleanse their body of sin, to restore their souls corruption, to remake/via Gods Seed their spirit reborn of God (holy, without taint), and By Gods Power to KEEP “his own works” Forever established, accomplished, DONE.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

Christ forgave our sin when He gave His life to atone for sin. Water gets us wet, and by submitting to the ordinance of water baptism believers acknowledge they are no longer of this world, and have been separated from the world. We received the Holy Spirit when we were born again. The Ethiopian eunuch heard the Word of God by the power of the Holy Sprit and by grace through faith was saved. Then he desired to be baptized in water as evidence he was no longer of the world. Noah was not saved in water, but through the water. A picture of baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves us. It is through baptism of the Holy Spirit that mankind is saved, not IN water.

Only God can give us the faith to walk in the Spirit and to know 100% we are Born Again...that can only come when God decides to Spirit gives birth to spirit....

Only a Born Again can walk in Faith...once God decides to regenerate our spirit and bring them Alive in Christ.

Other than that Living Spiritual Birth...it’s just carnal human faith..leading themselves through scripture..as God says...without the Spirit of God, we are none of His..

The carnal mind, those in the flesh without the Spirit..understand nothing of the Spirit...it’s Alien to them...as they are still in darkness and sin....void of Gods Spirit.

Our truth comes from the Holy Spirit, who testifies with our spirit that we are children of God...in other words, he speaks to our spirit as he’s baptising us in the Spirit....

A supernatural act that only God can do through the Holy Spirit....he is the one through us, who brings the good news about the Father and the Son....it’s the Holy Spirit who indwells our hearts..he builds us up to be strong warriors for Christ....and we proclaim the name of Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

Without the rebirth/ Born of God/ regenerated/ Spirit gives birth to spirit.....we are empty vessels, void of Gods Spirit...still in darkness and sin....without the Living spiritual birth..

 

[rwb]

I just showed you in Reply #398 that you are wrong. One needs faith to be born again.

How many times must you be shown we have no faith to be born again until we believe, and we will never believe in Christ apart from the power of His Spirit in us.

 

[Ritajanice]

How many times must you be shown we have no faith to be born again until we believe, and we will never believe in Christ apart from the power of His Spirit in us.

100% Amen!!!

Praise God for that truth!!

 

[rwb]

Can you state your reasons for disagreement?

Sure. The context doesn't speak of physical death that every human is destined to. When Paul says we were dead in trespasses and sins, he is speaking of our being spiritually dead, not that we would physically die one day.

 

[rwb]

Again with that seriously ridiculous phrase, "faith to believe". That phrase doesn't exist in scripture. The concept doesn't exist in scripture. There is no distinction between faith in God and belief in God in the scripture. That is because they are the exact same words in scripture.

Faith in God which gives us the ability to believe Him is necessary for man to be eternally saved. When man is spiritually dead in trespasses and sins they have no ability to come to saving faith in Christ. Why? Because they have not the Spirit of God to testify to their spirit, which is why we must be born again, that we might receive faith to turn to Christ in repentance believing in Him. Does or does not the Bible show that faith to believe is the work of God? Can man preform the work of faith to save themselves?

John 6:29 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

2 Thessalonians 1:11 (KJV) Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

 

[JBO]

How many times must you be shown we have no faith to be born again until we believe, and we will never believe in Christ apart from the power of His Spirit in us.

You have stated that, but you haven't shown it with scripture. You have not shown it with scripture. You also have stated some nonsense about faith being different from belief. It is not. I have shown you from Colossians 2:11-13 that faith is the requirement to be born again. It says there that we are regenerated, i.e., born again, when we were buried with him in baptism and risen with him through faith.

You can disagree with that all you want, but that is what Paul said.