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See how the Spirit testifies with our spirit Gods truth.....as we grow and mature in Christ.....we learn to recognise false teachings and we are taught to test the spirits..
Only a Born Again recognises the word of God...because they have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
No one can believe or have faith in God..without the Holy Spirit .....all they have is their own faith..which is no faith at all.
The Holy Spirit is the only one who can testify to our spirit the truth of Gods word......we must be Born of God...Spirit gives birth to spirit.
No one can believe in God, in their own human understanding...they must have the Spirit of God to be able to walk in faith and believe in Jesus..as it’s the Holy Spirit who testifies such truths to our spirit.
As God says.without the Spirit we are none of His...
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But what you repeatedly fail to show is where this faith comes from? What is your understanding of we being DEAD in our sins being "in Him" and "with Him"? Did we put off the body of sins of the flesh by circumcising our hearts, or through the circumcision of Christ made without hands? Eternal life does not come from being baptized in water! It comes from baptism of the Holy Spirit within!
Colossians 2:10 (KJV) And ye are in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Colossians 2:11-13 (KJV) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Saving faith is distinct from every works-righteous system because it isn’t the result of human effort. In the same way that repentance is granted by God (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25), faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9 affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
Romans 12 :3
"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to EVERY man the measure of faith ."
Matthew 9:29
Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Jesus in his ministry had not completed the Father's will in salvation, yet he went about healing, delivering from demons, and forgiving sins !
MANY TIMES HE SAID UNTO THOSE SEEKING, "EVEN AS YOUR FAITH........".
Paul goes on to say the above in Romans, every man is given the measure of faith!
Unbelievers also have faith, else HOW would one choose to believe the truth of God's word.
Ppl argue, debate & disagree over the jots and tittles, leaving off the sustaining meat of the word; milk only will make one anemic.
"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to EVERY man the measure of faith ."
Matthew 9:29
Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Jesus in his ministry had not completed the Father's will in salvation, yet he went about healing, delivering from demons, and forgiving sins !
MANY TIMES HE SAID UNTO THOSE SEEKING, "EVEN AS YOUR FAITH........".
Paul goes on to say the above in Romans, every man is given the measure of faith!
Unbelievers also have faith, else HOW would one choose to believe the truth of God's word.
Ppl argue, debate & disagree over the jots and tittles, leaving off the sustaining meat of the word; milk only will make one anemic.
Only the Holy Spirit can testify the truth of Gods word, after we become Born Again....Spirit gives birth to spirit....which is the “ Living “ spiritual birth.
The carnal mind can’t understand that,as they are void of Gods Spirit.
We must be Born Again to receive Gods faith and he is the only one who can deliver faith..via the Holy Spirit.....when Spirit gives birth to spirit...and no one can explain how God does it....
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
24 For John was not yet cast into prison.
25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
The carnal mind can’t understand that,as they are void of Gods Spirit.
We must be Born Again to receive Gods faith and he is the only one who can deliver faith..via the Holy Spirit.....when Spirit gives birth to spirit...and no one can explain how God does it....
John 3
King James Version
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
24 For John was not yet cast into prison.
25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.
26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1 Corinthians 3:1-3 (KJV) – “And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?”
When we read the verses you quote in context we find Paul is speaking to believers having received a measure of faith. He is not saying that those in unbelief can have faith for eternal life apart from the Holy Spirit.
Romans 12:1-3 (KJV) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
The two blind followed Christ already acknowledging Him as Son of David. They already believed on Him, and desired that He show them mercy by restoring their physical sight. Since they believed in Him, through the faith that made them believe, they were healed.
Matthew 9:27-29 (KJV) And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou Son of David, have mercy on us. And when he was come into the house, the blind men came to him: and Jesus saith unto them, Believe ye that I am able to do this? They said unto him, Yea, Lord. Then touched he their eyes, saying, According to your faith be it unto you.
Hebrews is affirming that our hope is for faith, because apart from having faith to believe on Christ we will never attain eternal life through Christ.
Hebrews 11:1-3 (KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good report. Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
Therefore, faith comes from preaching of others and, for many today with ready access of Bibles, from reading the Bible. There is in the Bible all the information and data that anyone needs to be convinced of the truth presented and to believe God and to believe in God. For some of us who were raised in Christians homes by Christian parents, it is not difficult to believe in God. For others it can be difficult to finally come to faith. For others, it never happens because, they refuse to accept the Bible as God's word and therefore reject what it says.
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Romans 12, particularly verses 1-8, is speaking of gifts from God, In verse three, it is not faith that is being measured. Rather it is the gifts from God that are given in a measure consistent with faith.
You can see that by reading further. For example, in verses 6-8:
Rom 12:6 Since we have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, each of us is to exercise them accordingly: if prophecy, according to the proportion of his faith;
Rom 12:7 if service, in his serving; or he who teaches, in his teaching;
Rom 12:8 or he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.
Thus we see that prophey, service, teaching exhortation, giving leading and mercy are all different gifts of different people given to them by God. They are given according to the proportion of their faith.
And yet he is speaking to Christians, believers, saints:
1Co 1:1 Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Co 1:2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours:
Those who are new babes...are they still carnal in their thoughts actions and deeds?
A Born Again is chosen by God..whether you like to hear it or not..that is Gods truth.
Born Of God by the will of God and NOT by the will of man...
Do you actually understand how God testifies with our spirit that we are his children?
How could we possibly understand that scripture?
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Bible, King James Version
Romans
Previous Chapter
Rom.8
[1] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[3] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[5] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
[12] Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
[13] For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
[14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[15] For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
[18] For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
[19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
[20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
[21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
[22] For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
[23] And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
[24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
[25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
[27] And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
[28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
[31] What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
[32] He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
[33] Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
[34] Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
[35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
[36] As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
[37] Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
[38] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Exactly! When we hear the Word of God (the Gospel) that we might believe the Gospel through faith, the work of God that is given according to God's grace. But not all who hear the Word have faith, why not if it is of man and not from God? Why after hearing the Word did Israel remain in unbelief? Because faith that comes from hearing is not from fallen man. Isaiah says only those sought and found by God were given faith to believe in Christ, the Messiah to come, the rest remained disobedient in hardness and unbelief because they sought Him by their own righteous works, rather than according to God's grace.
Romans 10:17 (KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:18-21 (KJV) But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
I have a friend who said she heard the word from a friend...then when I speak of my Living faith that came from God....she goes mad...
So, I’m not understanding how she said she heard the word..and says she’s Born Again....without even her understanding the spiritual living birth that only God can do.
She hated me testifying about God, what she didn’t seem to realise was...that it was the Holy Spirit in my heart..testifying that God is Alive and Active in Spirit and mighty powerful...that was foreign talk to her.
Do you have any idea why?..because we no longer fellowship as were on very different wavelengths of Faith.
In fact every time we used to meet...I could see fear in her face...are you with me?
The gifts are given to those members of the body of Christ (believers) according to God's grace and in proportion to the believers work of faith. Faith that every believer must be given to believe in Christ for eternal life comes as fruit from His Spirit within. Without the Spirit giving us this fruit called faith, we would never believe in Christ for eternal life, and never receive gifts according to faith.
Galatians 5:22 (KJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Galatians 5:23-26 (KJV) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
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I believe that man has been deceived for so long into believing that obtaining eternal life is by man's free will, that when they hear of God's Sovereignty over mankind, and that eternal life is according to the will of God and not the will of man, they get angry because they cannot refute the verses of Scripture that prove this. I've participated in these forums for many years now, and what I have found from other professing Christians is that when they cannot refute the Scriptures that prove God chooses to save whosoever He wills, and it is all according to His grace, they will attack the messenger almost without fail.
Thank you Lord..for revealing this truth to me, as you know, it has played quite heavily on my heart.
And yes....that’s exactly how she acted when I said God chose me by his mercy and grace.....thanks for explaining as I believe you did..in the Spirit.
I pray that her and all others will come to know the truth of Gods Living word...in Jesus Name..Amen!
God also says to test the spirits and i do...
It’s God who gives increase in our faith also...I can’t believe how the Holy Spirit matures and grows us in the Spirit....yet there was no growth in me at one time I believed..yet looking back now...I can see how he was at work in my heart....Praise God for his precious Holy Spirit..for without we would surly die...
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I agree. Paul isn't talking about physical death. He is talking about being condemned to eternal death. That is, never to live in the age of ages. There is no such thing as spiritually dead.
The Gospels speak often about the fact that God is the source of life through Jesus Christ.
John 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
John 3:15 . . .so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
Verse 4 of John's gospel alludes to a special quality of life, which he calls "the Light of men." In verse 15, he speaks about eternal life, which is not simply endless life, but also has that same quality. Eternal life is a type of life where sin does not exist; it is a life where everything that is broken, bent, and twisted now will be made straight. It is a life where love, which may be lost or lacking now, will increase in quality. Relationships, which may break down now, will grow stronger and more meaningful. Anger and sadness, which exist now, will be replaced by reconciliation, amity, and happiness.
I call this "aionic" life, after the Greek word for "age," because it will last forever and become more profound and significant each day.
When Paul said that we were "dead" in our sins, he meant that we were cut off from the final, glorious, and wonderful age to come. But now, in Christ, we are "alive" and destined for an eternal life.
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