Arguments

[Wrangler]

How important is it for you or for me to win an argument?

Define winning?

Most people will not admit being wrong no matter what. So that begs the question of why argue?

 

[TheRootOfDavid]

Define winning?

The opposite to losing.

 

[amadeus]

Define winning?

Should it not mean being always on God's side? If we are not... then how meaningful to us would be any validations of our position by any man or men?

Most people will not admit being wrong no matter what. So that begs the question of why argue?

Perhaps when we realize that a person is like that, it is time to back away from any argument: A time to be silent?

 

[Wrangler]

Should it not mean being always on God's side? If we are not... then how meaningful to us would be any validations of our position by any man or men?

Perhaps when we realize that a person is like that, it is time to back away from any argument: A time to be silent?

No. It goes without saying that everyone thinks they are on God's side. And the corrolary to that is that if you are on opposite sides, then 'the other' is against God. We must admit this is the ego driven starting point of every single argument human beings ever had! (Only then can one understand the nature of human conflict, which is deeply ingrained).

Given that, in defending God it is never the time to be silent! See the Great Commission.

Again, I go back to the question of why argue? (I have an answer for me but want to encourage others to answer - to not be silent).

 

[amadeus]

No. It goes without saying that everyone thinks they are on God's side. And the corrolary to that is that if you are on opposite sides, then 'the other' is against God. We must admit this is the ego driven starting point of every single argument human beings ever had! (Only then can one understand the nature of human conflict, which is deeply ingrained).

Pr 21:2

Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

That is the man of flesh who in his own eyes is always right. How does one become more like the LORD and ponder the hearts? How do we ever, if we do, come to the place where we would always be right?
Humility is a starting point. In my prayers, daily, I seek the lowest room and strive to allow God alone to lift me up from there...

Lu 14:10	But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
Lu 14:11	For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Given that, in defending God it is never the time to be silent! See the Great Commission.

When was it that Jesus chose to remain silent? How was it that the high priest provoked Jesus to open his mouth?

Mt 26:62	And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
Mt 26:63	But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mt 26:64	Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Again, I go back to the question of why argue? (I have an answer for me but want to encourage others to answer - to not be silent).

We should be, I believe, continue to seek God's kingdom and His righteousness. Talking to God daily, hopefully moving toward that " pray without ceasing" place as well as reading/studying the written scriptures are good things.

Hopefully every believer will have an answer wherever one is needed, but for different reasons sometimes a person may not have an answer. Possibly they are babes in the Lord and simply do not yet understand; or perhaps they have been led astray in their walk and now realizing it are without a clear answer.

Only God has all of the answers all of the time. If we are following Him carefully as we are led by the Holy Spirit, He will have the answers we need when we really need them. But.. let us be certain that He is leading and that our tongue is under His control.

 

[marks]

Define winning?

Gaining with the increase that comes from God.

Much love!

 

[SavedInHim]

How important is it for you or for me to win an argument?

For me personally, not important at all.

 

[Wrangler]

When was it that Jesus chose to remain silent? How was it that the high priest provoked Jesus to open his mouth?

Are you seriously comparing arguing with someone with being executed by the State, using anything you say against you? Really?

 

[Wrangler]

That is the man of flesh who in his own eyes is always right. How does one become more like the LORD and ponder the hearts? How do we ever, if we do, come to the place where we would always be right?
Humility is a starting point. In my prayers, daily, I seek the lowest room and strive to allow God alone to lift me up from there...

That's fine for vertical interaction. You are not talking about arguing with God though, right?

Regarding horizontal interaction, the verse you cited simply does not apply.

 

[Wrangler]

Hopefully every believer will have an answer wherever one is needed, but for different reasons sometimes a person may not have an answer. Possibly they are babes in the Lord and simply do not yet understand; or perhaps they have been led astray in their walk and now realizing it are without a clear answer.

Now this implies the argument is with nonbelievers or those not strong in the faith, as compared to general argument. Which is it?

 

[marks]

Are you seriously comparing arguing with someone with being executed by the State, using anything you say against you? Really?

Um . . . you were the one who said at no time should one be silent when defending God, yet God was silent at that time instead of defending Himself. If Jesus is our example, then that was the example He set.

And beside . . . there are some people even today who will use anything someone says against them.

Much love!

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Pr 21:2

Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

That is the man of flesh who in his own eyes is always right. How does one become more like the LORD and ponder the hearts? How do we ever, if we do, come to the place where we would always be right?
Humility is a starting point. In my prayers, daily, I seek the lowest room and strive to allow God alone to lift me up from there...

Lu 14:10	But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
Lu 14:11	For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

When was it that Jesus chose to remain silent? How was it that the high priest provoked Jesus to open his mouth?

Mt 26:62	And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
Mt 26:63	But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mt 26:64	Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

We should be, I believe, continue to seek God's kingdom and His righteousness. Talking to God daily, hopefully moving toward that " pray without ceasing" place as well as reading/studying the written scriptures are good things.

Hopefully every believer will have an answer wherever one is needed, but for different reasons sometimes a person may not have an answer. Possibly they are babes in the Lord and simply do not yet understand; or perhaps they have been led astray in their walk and now realizing it are without a clear answer.

Only God has all of the answers all of the time. If we are following Him carefully as we are led by the Holy Spirit, He will have the answers we need when we really need them. But.. let us be certain that He is leading and that our tongue is under His control.

Agree with this with one exception, I have seen ppl write & heard ppl say they don't have to study & read the word. Just what IS it the Spirit will bring to remembrance IF one does not put the word into their heart?

God's word will only be brought forth if it is written within those whom claim to know him, by studying his character, attributes, commandments and will found ONLY in his word.

Online commentaries are from man, copying the word from sites does not make one to be of studying in rightly dividing the word!

 

[marks]

Agree with this with one exception, I have seen ppl write & heard ppl say they don't have to study & read the word. Just what IS it the Spirit will bring to remembrance IF one does not put the word into their heart?

God's word will only be brought forth if it is written within those whom claim to know him, by studying his character, attributes, commandments and will found ONLY in his word.

Online commentaries are from man, copying the word from sites does not make one to be of studying in rightly dividing the word!

And further I believe that knowing the Scriptures guards us from error. I've not found a single heresy not addressed in the Bible. As far as I can tell, all heresies are refuted in plain statements. The more you know of the Bible the more readily you will detect error when you come across it, either from your own mind, or from someone else.

Personally I believe that reading and meditating on the Scriptures work to rewrite our minds, changing our world view, changing our thought processes and behavior. I look at the Bible as the DNA of my new life, and I want all of it working in me.

Truly transformation comes to us in knowing God Himself, and He isn't His Book, however, He gave us His Book that through it we would in fact know Him.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

Arguments…
Importance to win?

I have no issue with Disagreeing with others.

I know my background, my effort to read, to study, to keep my relationship with the Lord God steady.

I don’t know an others background, which many times appears to vary widely.

I know WHY I disagree, based in accordance with Scripture that Applies to a person “IN” Christ….and Scriptures that DO NOT Apply to a person “IN” Christ….is irrelevant to me personally.

Cherry -pick? Absolutely! I know my gender, I know I am not a name in scripture, not a Jew, not a king, not a wavering believer, etc. so absolutely, I do not Apply such of those persons I am Not, their Consequences / warnings / outcomes/ etc. to me.

Nor do I accept ANOTHER deciding “for me” which Scripture do apply to me.

I Trust scripture that which says, ONLY God and the Individual KNOWS his own hearts true beliefs…

I Trust ALL of scripture IS True….but do not for a moment believe ALL scripture APPLIES the same to the entire world of men who have or will ever live.

God is very EXPRESS…there are men “OF” the world and others “IN” Christ…they are NOT the Same individuals.

There are “BELIEVERS” enjoying Gods Blessings….BUT have NOT “committed” their Belief…and can at ANY time “walk away”.
They Are Not called SAVED and then UNSAVED…
They are Called having Fallen from faith.

And regardless if a banter back and forth appears as one trying to convince another…
I know my standing, I know it is secure, I know what others say FOR me is irrelevant and I will continue to SPEAK on behalf of the Lord, His word, for the benefit of any other standing by, that They may have a sparked interest to read, learn, believe and establish their own one on one forever relationship with the Lord God. That is the only “winning” I hope to have had some part of.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

Are you seriously comparing arguing with someone with being executed by the State, using anything you say against you? Really?

What I do in serving God is what I am led to do. The Body of Christ consists of many members. They do not all have the same function. God knows.

 

[amadeus]

That's fine for vertical interaction. You are not talking about arguing with God though, right?

Regarding horizontal interaction, the verse you cited simply does not apply.

Each day I read my Bibles and I talk to God, listening to Him. Where He leads is where I hope always to follow.

Give God the glory!

 

[amadeus]

Now this implies the argument is with nonbelievers or those not strong in the faith, as compared to general argument. Which is it?

How close to God is even a mature believer? Does one ever stop growing? How much like God is anyone now? How much like God can one become? Is He not omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent?, How far from Him is even the closest man?

 

[amadeus]

Agree with this with one exception, I have seen ppl write & heard ppl say they don't have to study & read the word. Just what IS it the Spirit will bring to remembrance IF one does not put the word into their heart?

God's word will only be brought forth if it is written within those whom claim to know him, by studying his character, attributes, commandments and will found ONLY in his word.

Online commentaries are from man, copying the word from sites does not make one to be of studying in rightly dividing the word!

I believe that the Word of God is more than a written Bible. As we approach Him, He writes things upon our hearts. In the Book [the Bible] is the potential. The Life is found in people in which it is written by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Wrangler]

Um . . . you were the one who said at no time should one be silent when defending God, yet God was silent at that time instead of defending Himself. If Jesus is our example, then that was the example He set.

Putting aside your messed up doctrine, you double down on the point I made.

Are you seriously comparing arguing with someone with being executed by the State, using anything you say against you? Really?

You are seriously comparing arguing with someone with being executed by the State, using anything you say against you!

Arguing is a form of Freedom of Speech. This is NOT the scenario Jesus faced in the Star Chamber.

The foolishness! I’ll leave this thread here.

 

[marks]

Arguing is a form of Freedom of Speech.

You have the freedom to speak,

The foolishness! I’ll leave this thread here.

And the freedom to be silent.

Feel free to use either.

Much love!