John 6 and the bread from heaven

[Eternally Grateful]

Just a general warning to those who are slinging insults and name calling, if it continues, I will have to close the thread.
Just letting you know :)
Hugs :)

thank you for the warning.. Hugs back

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's why the laity, whether Jew or Gentile were kept from reading the Torah or the Prophets or the NT.
That way they can control what you believe and how you are taught.
They believe they have all the answers and I would ask them (The leaders of the church) Where wast thou when God laid the foundation?
Carnal men trying to dictate spiritual truths which they themselves do not fully understand and neither can they.

It's about power. It's about control. It's about who you worship man or God.
They can't see it because it's them doing it.
And nothing is going to change their minds except an act of God.

If you were on a desert island and there was nothing but you and God. And you believed God, and had faith in God.
Then on that alone you would be saved.
You don't need cups or platters or bowls or temples or linen costumes or big hats, or even stairs to climb to put yourself above others.
None of these things will save you or even bring you closer to God.

You can't get any closer to God than having his own spirit in you, in me.
That's the bottom line.

Hugs

Well it is interesting when peoples whole argument is that scripture does Not support you

yet they can not counter anything you said, if anything, what they post PROVES what you have been saying about a certain belief all along.

Its sad we can not just sit and open the word by point our doctrines and beliefs aside..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That passage is to the men who have been taught by HIM. That passage means no man can teach THEM because they are, by His anointing, the teachers of other men.

Like I said: Jesus taught the Apostles. The Apostles then taught other men. Those men then taught other ment etc etc. That passage supports EXACTLY what I said.

Thanks for using Scripture to prove me right.....

No

this is not what the passage says. John is not talking to other church leaders, pastors or those in charge,

He is talking to babes, Little children, young men and fathers

That is what the church is composed of.

Babes that just came to Christ

Little children who are learning.

Young men who are ready to go to battle

and fathers who lead them

He says of ALL OF THEM.. They have the anointing

If you do not have the anointing, Your not saved.. You’re not part of the church. And your not a child of God

The anointing is the HS, which comes into every one who is born again

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How about those posts where you blatantly call EG-- "LIAR?" (i.e. #225 and #226)

This conversation has become personal and unworthy of continuing.

Its ok.. The moment the conversation went away from John 6, it lost its fruitfulness. When you have apposing beliefs, as we have here. You going to get the one side calling the other side a liar and the other side is going to say your bearing false witness against them

As in all arguments where there is only 1 truth. There is ways going to be opposition.

Like I said a few days ago. There is no win or lose. It should not be a battle. it should be 2 people or more trying to learn the truth. And even if we come to a part where we cannot agree. We still should not attack the other.. While it is hard when it gets heated. We have to be willing to be humble and just confess it and move on.

Sadly I have a habit if someone calls me a liar. I get mad, and make it a point to prove them wrong. And call them a liar back..

After 40 years following God and being wiht his people. I have not seen one time where this has works.

yet I continually fall for it..

I had a dear sister get in my Private IM’s and remind me of this fact (THANK YOU!)

which is one of the reasons I walked away last night, and inspite of wanting to get back into it when I was free. I fought the urge and waiting until this morning where I hope I had more important stuff to share..

Only time will tell how that will be recieved

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That makes ZERO sense.....

Jesus taught the Apostles the Truth. Plain and simple.

Why would you twist that FACT?

Keeping it real with the Truth....Mary

Jesus IS Truth. Jesus taught the Apostles that He IS the Truth, the Apostle taught other men that Jesus IS the Truth.

Seems Ziggy said the exact same thing you said..

Why would you call her twisting when she said the same thing,

jesus taught the apostles the truth.. It is all about him

The apostles taught others what he taught them

Keeping it real??????

 

[Ziggy]

Jesus spoke a parable concerning 2 sons. One that said he would go, and did not, and the other which said I go not, and did.
Jesus asks which one did the will of his father?

I ask you, which one did the will of Jesus, Judas or Peter?

Mat 27:3
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Mat 27:4
Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
Mat 27:5
And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Mat 27:6
And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
Mat 27:7
And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
Mat 27:8
Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.
Mat 27:9
Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
Mat 27:10
And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me.

Was Judas appointed for this very thing?

This was the same night they broke bread and drank from the cup.
And Judas was given the sop.
And the lot fell to Judas.. like drawing the short straw.

Peter vowed to die with him... yet he denied the Lord 3 times.

Everyone got to drink from that cup that night.
All the disciples left him.

What was the baptism that Jesus was baptised with, that they too would have to be baptised with?
They will have to die for him as he had died for the sins of the world.
They would be sent into the world to proclaim his name and face death everywhere they turned.

Now I'm going to admit. That the Catholics may be onto something...
Although I believe there is more to it than just eating and drinking.
I will try to explain:

Paul is speaking:
2Co 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
2Co 4:8
We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
2Co 4:9
Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
2Co 4:10
Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
2Co 4:11
For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
2Co 4:12
So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

What is this "bearing about in the body" ?
The body is the church. The church is the Ark of God.
What was in the Ark that God told Moses to make. The law, the staff, and the manna.

What is in the Body of the Church that Jesus told them to take?
My Words, my flesh, and my blood.
These are the things to be carried with the church just as Moses and those priests carried the ark.
The body is the ark.

1Jo 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

The Word, the Sweat that fell to the ground, and the Blood.

1Co 11:26
For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
1Co 11:27
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

Paul calls it the cup of blessing, but it also the cup of sorrows.
It is bearing one another's sins.

Gal 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Now, @Marymog said something yesterday that really offended me.
I aked if there were parts of the NT that don't apply to everyone and they said yes.
We were talking about 1John in particular.
Later I was wondering why it was still on my mind what they had said.

And I saw this:

1Co 4:9
For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

Jesus only shared that Last supper with the Apostles, and finally Paul.
Are we too supposed to consider ourselves Apostles?
Do we all fill the same ministry?
I don't believe so.
I don't believe that that cup of sorrow and that broken body is for all to partake of.
But rather those to whom it was given.

Picking up a conversation in Luke 12 between Peter and Jesus...

Luk 12:40
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
Luk 12:41
Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
Luk 12:42
And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Luk 12:43
Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44
Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45
But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

So here is my question.. it is the same as Peter's question.
Is this parable for the Apostles only or for all of us?

I'll leave it there for now as there are many things I am still digging on.

But I will end with this... I don't put much faith in the things of this world. Not cups, not plates, not rituals or traditions.
I rely on faith alone.
And maybe there some things in there just for certain people to bear.

Thinking...
Hugs

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How about those posts where EG lied? Can you find those? Do you want to find those?

You found the posts where I called EG a liar and suggested that doing that this conversation is personal and unworthy of continuing. Are you taking sides? Or are you going to look at this objectively?

Curious Mary

Please, this is the second time I have asked

Show one post where EG has lied.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Where does John tell us that?

Curious Mary

1 John 3. Speaking to Little children (vs 18)

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

The words given By God are written to keep us from those who try to decieve us..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So continuing on with that same passage, who is John talking to?

1Jo 2:28
And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
1Jo 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

anytime.

Little Children. Amen, Read the whole book of first john, He speaks to his little children..

He had the love of God..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Gee, I thought we was discussing Bread...

and who gets to determine the interpretation of what bread is?

Jesus who IS the bread, or man that tells us what their interpretation of bread is?

THANK YOU!!!

Thats what John 6 is, what is the bread.

We need to know. Because all the promises of God are based on getting that right.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope, we are not discussing bread. We are discussing your defense of the statement that EG made that any man can read John 6 without a teacher to teach them if they just listen.

Last chance....Stay on task or we are done.

If you want to change the subject to bread let me know.

Which means that we can determine what the bread is. Without a teacher.

thank you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If you cannot see all the correspondence between yourself and @Eternally Grateful then, I suggest you look back. BOTH calling the other "Liars", and other un-edifying comments. And @Ziggy as well.

Yes

I confess I was just as guilty..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If we were to delete every post here that is off topic, most of this thread would be gone

Sad, But true..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Round 1 was about your defense of EG (by using a passage from Scripture) saying that any man can read Scripture and understand without the help of a teacher if they just listen. I showed you that the passage you used to defend that theory DOES NOT support that theory. That passage YOU used is not written to YOU or ME or EG.

I showed you where you were wrong. You failed to show me where I was wrong, so YOU lost round 1....off to round 2.

Change the topic....I am ready.

Mary

lol,

this is exactly what I am talking about.

My heart breaks..

its not about You mary, or me,

It is about what the word of God says.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you, Nancy.

I will not call anyone a liar again. I understand how that can be offensive even when the evidence is clear. I didn't mean it to be offensive. I will soften my words.

Respectfully, Mary

Once again

Please post the evidence.

You have no accused me multiple times, and I have asked for evidence.

It is time to show the evidence. Or stop the continued accusations.. If you keep it up. I will report you (even though we have a mod here.. She has warned you numerous times also. And in this post. You refused to repent..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

NO, going from John 6 to the Holy Spirit doing the interpreting of Scripture is what YOU interjected into the conversation. Remember when I called you a troll and posting irrelevant stuff?

But as you even said yourself

This thread is about being able to interpret John 6 without any teachers. Which means we depend on the HS to teach us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

FACT: 1 John is a letter to the Churches in the time he wrote them.

So YOU are the Churches in the 1st century. They were having a problem with heretical teachings.

So the Bible was not written for us In the 21st century?

Is this what your saying?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ok, so here is the skinny..
I'm enjoying the conversation concerning the bread from heaven, the anointing as the teacher, and who did John write his letters to.
Now, you can call me what you like, or say what I'm sharing is irrelevant, but that's not going to keep me, or chase me away from a great conversation.
So let's carry on.
The ball is in your court.
What would YOU like to discuss?
I'm open to anything.


HUGS

I hope you read what I posted this morning.. I think I am going to stop responding to certain posts because they have deflected from the thread.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In john 6 Jesus told his disciples that we must eat Him.

However, he had yet to show them how to eat him. He did this at the Last Supper.

Paul then re-affirmed what Jesus said about the last supper.

to be continued...the plot thickens.

Yet Jesus spoke in 6 chapters about what it is that really grave life

Not to be rude. And I hope you do not take it this way.

But you say we should go to other passages. in the end I did.

we just went to different passages to determine what each of us think the bread is..

So please. Once again, Do not say I did not say we could not go to other parts of scripture

when we read ANY part of scripture. We need to see what is said first.

After this, if we can not determine what is said. or are confused. We can go to other passages of scripture.

But even if we think we know what it says, We Should see it in other passages of scripture also.

In the end, we could not agree with what Jesus said.

You then went to your passage

I then showed why I can agree with your passages.

And then I gave my passages, which I think shows what I think jesus said, and helps me confirm what I think Jesus said.

And this is when the arguments and name calling that @Nancy spoke about started..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hello Mary.

I've always felt that John wrote his gospel and included the ' Bread of Life' discourse to combat the rising gnostics who were rejecting the Eucharist. The letters of his student Ignatius make it clear how St. John felt about it.

I've also often pondered whether

This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh be longs to God,

is indeed a Eucharistic reference

Alma Redemptoris Mater

Question

since the Eucharist or anything like it had Not even been instituted when jesus spoke these words and gave the gospel to these people

Then why would John write it to attack somethign that had not even happened yet?

This is confusing