Free-will vs No Free-will (God knows everything?)

[MatthewG]

Thats a good topic.
I have a Thread on it..

However, its a dodge, as our discussion is your chronic preterism theology.

So, as i said, Jesus didnt lie... but your Preterism teachers are still lying., and they trained you.
As a matter of fact, the first video you ever posted on the forum, was a Lying Preterism Teacher, shoveling out his theology.

That's on you.
My advice?
Get some truth and never let it go.

Jesus did lie, if he never came back.

You continue to bring up Preterism. Why? I am just basing my belief on what is written in the bible concerning those people.

You are gonna die and see Jesus one day, I believe everyone will, end up meeting Jesus in the Heavenly Realm.

 

[Behold]

Yes. Jesus is a liar, if he failed to come back,

Christ The Lord hasn't """ failed to come back"""... He's still on the way......... and you are the Preterism Cultist according to your posts.....

Jesus is soon coming again, and if you are born again, you can explain to Him why you just defined the Holy Lord as a "Liar" on a Public forum.

You'll get your chance.
Think on that... @MatthewG

-See you there.......

 

[MatthewG]

I believe that everything happened in the past, there is no shame in my belief, and no reason to change what is believed, its personal and subjective.

While others can continue to believe that Jesus is coming back one day that is fine, everyone at the end of life is going to meet Jesus, however when it comes to the great tribulation of the people in that day in age, which people can go read about in history, concerning the events with the Romans and Jewish War, which left 1,000,0000 Jewish people left dead, in September, 70AD, and the 12 tribes of 144,000 were saved seeing Jesus coming back, and the rest of the tribes were wiped out.

I continue to believe what Jesus has said, and there is no reason to make everything he said out for us today, when he never speaks to us to begin with.

He hasn't failed to come back... He's own the way......... and you are the Preterism Cultist according to your posts.....

He's coming again, and if you are born again, you can explain to Him why you just defined the Holy Lord as a "Liar" on a Public forum.

You'll get your chance.
Think on that... @MatthewG

-See you there.......

Jesus Christ is the Lord and Saviour, He was a liar, if he did not come save those people which promised to come get. It's that simple. And there is no shame in Calling the Lord Yeshua, a liar, if he did not come through on a promise which was made to the people all written to in the new testament. To disregard those messages, is irresponsible, and immature.

 

[MatthewG]

@Behold this why it is stated by me "I believe by faith, Jesus was able to do what he promised to do." There is no counter argument that can be had. Only Rejection.

That means it's all on faith, therefore you do not have to believe it, if you do not. As I believe all people should think about the things that are written concerning the return of Christ, because many people have been mislead, when the context is clear for those people then and there.

You will have the right to counter as this is a debate forum, but just because you counter it by just saying simple things like "Lying preterist", or however you wanna deem scripture by shorting it down, or anything like that. The actual reading of the bible, sets for the a who, why, when, where, and how scenario which all people who are desirous to learn about those things can do so by ... reading the bible, and putting it all together, and it will start to make a lot of sense.

However, that takes effort like mining down into a rock and making a cave.

 

[Behold]

The actual reading of the bible, sets for the a who, why, when, where, and how scenario which all people who are desirous to learn about those things can do so by

As i told you, you'll get your chance to explain.

Now,

John lived 2 or 3 decades beyond when "lying Preterist's" say that Jesus came back.(AD70)

John never wrote about the Earthly return of Christ, that would have been the 2nd coming of the Lord.

The reason that He didn't is what explains that PRETERISM and its followers, are DECEIVERS.

 

[MatthewG]

As i told you, you'll get your chance to explain.

Now,

John lived 2 or 3 decades beyond when "lying Preterist's" say that Jesus came back.(AD70)

John may have be mentioned by someone, a few years after he gone, perhaps by Augustine, or Polycarp who knew him at one point, that is about it. That is the only quote I know of people that suggests "John wrote Revelation after the destruction of Jerusalem", if that is true, why did John write about the Temple still standing in Revelation? I can't remember the quote offhand, it seems to have dealt with a futurist expectation, and therefore traditionally people have continued to say that Revelation was written in 90Ad, when that is a traditionally believed thing, it doesn't mean it is true.

Most suggestion - the temple is not built yet. That is okay, it doesn't matter what you end up believing, can you love me? Even despite my beliefs?

John never wrote about the Earthly return of Christ, that would have been the 2nd coming of the Lord.

I believe that when the messengers who said, why you standing here looking into the sky? He will come back in like manner, was a similar like manner believers, would see him again when he came again the clouds. I believe people of faith in that day in age which were part of the bride during the great tribulation, saw him and were rescued, and the rest who did not repent suffered under Gods right judgement, in having Jerusalem destroyed, and the 12 tribes all killed off. For killing the Son of God.

The reason that He didn't is what explains that PRETERISM and its followers, are DECEIVERS.

All preterism is, is looking into the past. You are a person who believes in the futurist view, which is fine, but I don't call you a names. Everyone is allowed to have a view, and to down them on their view, is negligence on your own part.

Preterism is a Christian eschatological view or belief that interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already been fulfilled in history.

The futurist view assigns all or most of the prophecy to the future, shortly before the Second Coming; especially when interpreted in conjunction with Daniel, Isaiah 2:11-22, 1 Thessalonians 4:15–5:11, and other eschatological sections of the Bible.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Does God "know" everything?

A.) Yes

This is the "fore-Knowledge" of God... or... God knowing be-fore it happened, what will happen, next.

Does God cause everything to happen, that happens?

A.) NO

And THAT Reader, is where John Calvin failed to understand that God's knowing everything, is not the same as God causing it ALL to happen.

And because He could not comprehend that God KNOWING, is not the same as God Causing... is why his Theology is evil, Cross rejecting, and can ruin your faith for life.

John Calvin can get you killed.
How?
Because once you are "bewitched" by his demonic teaching.. or as Paul teaches about these types of "dark lights".... You may end up with Cancer, or some Terminal Disease, and because Calvin has your BRAIN LOCKED UP and your Faith destroyed with is Cross Denying Theology... you will think... "well, it was meant to be, God wanted me to have it". "its all pre-determined" .. "what will be will be"..

And if that is true, then why did God and Christ tell you to PRAY and get your situations solved, your diseases healed, and your life restored, = By ANSWERED PRAYER ??

God does not want you to have DISEASE.. God wants you alive and well and full of Joy and spiritual power.
But because Calvinism has you deceived, you wont be able to put any faith in God, and the Blood of Jesus, so that you can be HEALED.

John Calvinism, will you get you killed, JUST LIKE THAT..

Calvin's misunderstanding of God's Fore-knowledge was so demonically twisted that he created his man made theology that redefined "to foreknow" as to "pre-determine".

Reader, you are here reading what im writing, what im teaching..... and God KNEW you would, but He didn't cause you to read it.
You CHOSE to read it.
See that?
You CHOSE to be here.......= Freewill.
But God knew you would choose it.., before you were born. and that is God's Fore-knowledge.

John Calvin takes that reality and twists it into... "God predestined you to read what Behold is writing".

See the problem?
God didnt predestine you to be here.... reading my post......., but Calvin teaches otherwise., and millions on this earth right now, are under his SPELL.

Paul said of these types of "ministers"... "Who has BEWITCHED YOU"...., and that is exactly what John Calvinism does to people, to such a degree that they will openly brag and proudly tell you...."IM a CALVINIST"..

Well, im NOT... Im a CHRISTIAN,.

And what are you, reader?

See it?

LOOK !!

Calvin's developed a mental issue within this confusion he had regarding his twisted idea of "predestined", ... He obsessed on this to the point the he could not read the verses in the bible unless he was filtering them through his deranged misunderstanding, regarding his incredibly wrong reinterpretation of God's Fore-knowledge.

If Calvin was on this forum right now...., he would be teaching that God CHOSE some of you to burn in the lake of fire, and he would say that others are chosen to go to heaven.
And in BOTH CASES, not any of you had any Choice at all., as you were predestined to BURN IN The Lake of Fire, or not.

= Welcome to SATANIC CALVINISM.

See that?
That's Satanic Theology that denies that Jesus on the CROSS.... John 3:16..... was given to us ALL, as our hope, our salvation, and God wills that ALL of us would come to Christ by faith,.... however, God does nof force you.

Reader,
You CHOOSE Christ, or not .......and where you end up after you die, this eternal result is God respecting your choice you made on earth, after you die.


Calvin teaches otherwise.

Your concept of Calvins teaching is radically off. Calvin did not teach that god causes everything. that is known as hyper Calvinism and that is heretical.

Gods "foreknow3ledge" is the Greek word "pro-ginosko" which means known or planned in advance. We get our English word prognosis from this. Prognosis as exemplified is as follows: A doctor is treating you for stage one cancer. He tells you the outcome for the doctor knows what he is going to do in advance and based on his expertise knows the results.

Gods foreknowledge and predestination only refer to the elect or chosen ones. It is not so much concerned with out day to day activities as it is with God working His plan out in our lives.

A person can only choose Christ when we are enbalbe by god to choose Jesus, the Scriptures are clear. The natural man cannot please god as is written.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Maybe the Fathers will? He kept praying to be able perform the Fathers will and not his own, and the Father guided him in the right direction by the holy spirit of Yahava, In Christ Yeshua. You have any suggestions?

Well, I have a suggestion as to why He kept praying to be able perform the Fathers will and not his own....To be a great example for us first comes to mind...

Let's face it. If it were not for examples through out life many of us would have a difficult time with most things.

Remember, Luke 11:1 It happened that while Jesus was praying in a certain place, after He had finished, one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray just as John also taught his disciples.” and vs 2 goes on with Jesus reply "And He said to them, “When you pray, say: ‘Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come."

Never forget that within that prayer that Jesus told us to pray is Thy kingdom come... thy will be done.

So I think it was by example that Jesus did everything.

He did not need to know
"Isn't it true that if Jesus didn't know something (the time of his return), then he didn't know everything?"

It will happen when it is time, and not before.

 

[MatthewG]

Well, I have a suggestion as to why He kept praying to be able perform the Fathers will and not his own....To be a great example for us first comes to mind...

Let's face it. If it were not for examples through out life many of us would have a difficult time with most things.

Remember, Luke 11:1 It happened that while Jesus was praying in a certain place, after He had finished, one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray just as John also taught his disciples.” and vs 2 goes on with Jesus reply "And He said to them, “When you pray, say: ‘Father, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come."

Never forget that within that prayer that Jesus told us to pray is Thy kingdom come... thy will be done.

So I think it was by example that Jesus did everything.

He did not need to know
"Isn't it true that if Jesus didn't know something (the time of his return), then he didn't know everything?"

It will happen when it is time, and not before.

Jesus gave his disciples clues, to when his return would be near, but he was not sure exactly when, just his Father.

Then you have the Father, revealing the things which were to come, which was not known to him before which he passes on to Jesus, and then Jesus to the messenger to John.

(Revelation 1:1) Perhaps people just do not connect the relationship between these pictures in scripture, just as Yeshua being our example to follow and abide in, allowing the Spirit of Christ, to come in and through us to do Gods good works, which would be to do his will.

I like what the apostle had written to the thessalonican people, concerning the will of God, and concerning the return of the Lord whom they were told to wait on, which also people dismiss a lot of the times as well.

12 And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you;

13 And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves.

14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.

15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.

16 Rejoice evermore.

17 Pray without ceasing.

18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

19 Quench not the Spirit.

20 Despise not prophesyings.

21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[rwb]

Does God know everything or does God work through the possibilities that come along?

What would you say?

Some would say God knows everything from the very beginning, which negates the ability to have free will and everything is predetermined.

Do you think God only knows what he wants to know, and then works through whatever that event may be with the freewill of man?

God created man, and said it was good.

I believe mankind is always free to choose whatever is according to their nature. In the beginning when God created man with the freedom to obey him or not. What were the consequences for mankind after man heeded the voice of the serpent (evil) and disobeyed God?

 

[rwb]

Ill share with you how I see it then,

To me I see God setting up everything being good. He even gave the angels in heaven free choice.

“But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day

bible.com

You can see that even Satan had a choice when he came and beguiled eve, and Adam could have protected eve but he did not.

With eve making her choice;

“So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:6-7 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an | New King James Version (NKJV) | D

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an

bible.com

We have here a choice made by adam and eve which was by choosing freely. Eve could have made a visit to God, or Adam could have warned her if he seen the observer before hand.

It seems to me after these choices where made; God chooses upon how he would administer accordingly.

“So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:14-15 So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All th | New King James Version (NKJV) |

So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All th

bible.com

“To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:16 To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bi

To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.”

bible.com

“Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭17‬-‭19‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:17-19 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In | New King James Version (NKJV) |

Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In

bible.com

Then God makes a choice instead of the figs they made themselves (improper clothing), he made them tunics from probably and animal; by animal sacrifice. Then drove man out of this Garden of eden.

“And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭20‬-‭24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:21-24 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his h | New King James Version (NKJV) |

Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his h

bible.com

Therefore it was not Gods fault, that made made their freewill decision, he allowed them to decide and he interacted based on those choices, amazing stuff here in my opinion.

While I agree with much of what you've said here, would you say that mankind descending from Adam & Eve still has freedom of will to choose good or will they always naturally choose evil?

 

[rwb]

What about scriptures that talk about freedom?

2 Corinthians 3:17 Amplified Bible (AMP)
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty [emancipation from bondage, true freedom].

Yes, as Paul shows us where the Spirit is (within you) there is liberty or freedom. What about where the Spirit is not found, does mankind in unbelief also have the same liberty?

 

[MatthewG]

I believe mankind is always free to choose whatever is according to their nature. In the beginning when God created man with the freedom to obey him or not. What were the consequences for mankind after man heeded the voice of the serpent (evil) and disobeyed God?

Separation from the Garden of Eden, separation from Yahava, Spiritual death (of something once done - being able to talk to Yahava, by and the wind itself some Hebrew Scholars believe Yahava would come and speak with Adam and Eve, and Adam and Eve would come speak with Yahava, if they so choose to.

While I agree with much of what you've said here, would you say that mankind descending from Adam & Eve still has freedom of will to choose good or will they always naturally choose evil?

Considering that I believe everything has been reconciled to Yahava, through Christ. The Garden of Eden is what people walk around in today, choosing the tree of life, or the tree of knowledge and good and evil.

While people can do good things, righteous things, it doesn't mean that they also can't have an attitude of self-righteous and because of the things they have done they are deserving of something because of their choices.

It is faith that pleases God. There seems to be a choice, give oneself the credit, or give Yahava, and his Son the credit, for helping one to do good works of God, that is by and through abiding in Christ.

Yes, as Paul shows us where the Spirit is (within you) there is liberty or freedom. What about where the Spirit is not found, does mankind in unbelief also have the same liberty?

What type of liberty is one being freedom from or to? Bondage of sin? Bondage of religious traditions? Bondage to serving self? Bondage of Religious Authority?

 

[12question]

Ill share with you how I see it then,

To me I see God setting up everything being good. He even gave the angels in heaven free choice.

“But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;”
‭‭Jude‬ ‭1‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Jude 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day

bible.com

You can see that even Satan had a choice when he came and beguiled eve, and Adam could have protected eve but he did not.

With eve making her choice;

“So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:6-7 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an | New King James Version (NKJV) | D

So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, an

bible.com

We have here a choice made by adam and eve which was by choosing freely. Eve could have made a visit to God, or Adam could have warned her if he seen the observer before hand.

It seems to me after these choices where made; God chooses upon how he would administer accordingly.

“So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:14-15 So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All th | New King James Version (NKJV) |

So the LORD God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All th

bible.com

“To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:16 To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.” | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bi

To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.”

bible.com

“Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭17‬-‭19‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:17-19 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In | New King James Version (NKJV) |

Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’: “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In

bible.com

Then God makes a choice instead of the figs they made themselves (improper clothing), he made them tunics from probably and animal; by animal sacrifice. Then drove man out of this Garden of eden.

“And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living. Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭20‬-‭24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Genesis 3:21-24 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his h | New King James Version (NKJV) |

Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his h

bible.com

Therefore it was not Gods fault, that made made their freewill decision, he allowed them to decide and he interacted based on those choices, amazing stuff here in my opinion.

But it was God's fault in that He made the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Unless it just grew up there in the middle of the garden before someone came across it, pointed it out to God Who then discovered its potency then had to decide what to do with it. He then God had to make a plan on the spot, telling the humans not to touch or eat of it. God decided NOT to set angels around that tree, keeping humans from potentially eating of it so they could die. Though after they DID eat of this unprotected tree (unprotected, so as to not deprive humans of their freedom to choose it or not )
they found themselves desperately in need of the tree of life. Then God, not forseeing this (caught by surprise), decided to restrict their freedom to choose to eat of the tree of life and potentially live on forever. Question- Why did God, knowing the potential outcomes of the 2 trees, only restrict humans from the tree of life not the tree that leads to death? If their Creator trusted them to potentially resist the temptation to eat of tree (1) K of G&E forever, why did He take away their potential to learn from their mistake and trust them to obey God from then on, thus making it fine for them to eat of tree (2) and live forever?

 

[Behold]

Your concept of Calvins teaching is radically off. Calvin did not teach that god causes everything. that is known as hyper Calvinism and that is heretical.

It does not surprise me that you would show up to defend Satanic Calvinism.
After all, you dont even understand that Jesus has your sin.
So, as the most basic understand of the finished work of Jesus on the Cross is not within your comprehension, as your posted, by defining your Christianity as "sin, confess, repeat"... then of course Calvinism would also have you snared within its evil doctrine.

The reason the Calvinist's believe that God created Evil, is because that is what they believe, as taught by that maniac.

The reason that Calvin's' deceived argue that "free will " does not exist, is because the devil who taught them, has deceived them.

Any real Christian, who is born again for 3 mins, would understand that The Cross of Christ, that is their Salvation, is given to the world, and not just to those who are "predestined" to be forced to believe.

Calvinism is a doctrine straight from the mind of Satan.
If it has you, then that is just one more thing that is wrong with your "sin, confess, repeat"... theology that you live and breath, and actually teach in your "church". @Ronald Nolette

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

But it was God's fault in that He made the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Unless it just grew up there in the middle of the garden before someone came across it, pointed it out to God Who then discovered its potency then had to decide what to do with it.

Just as a side note.... Any idea where this comes from????

56 And I came to the Garden of Righteousness, and from afar off I saw numerous trees, and these great−two trees there, very great, beautiful, and glorious, and magnificent, and the Tree of Knowledge, whose holy fruit they eat and know great wisdom. 57 That tree is in height like the strangler fig, and its leaves are like the Carob tree, and its fruit is like the clusters of the vine, very beautiful: and the fragrance of the tree penetrates afar. 58 Then I said: "How beautiful is the tree, and how attractive is its look!" 59 Then Raphael the holy angel, who was with me, answered me and said: "This is the tree of wisdom, of which thy father old and thy aged mother, who were before thee, have eaten, and they learnt wisdom and their eyes were opened, and they knew that they were naked and they were driven out of the garden."

It does not matter but it is credited, by some, to one that God the Father highly favored a good 3000 years before the year of our Lord... or as they say today... common era. HA! There has nothing common been in existence since the Word said Let there be.......

He then God had to make a plan on the spot, telling the humans not to touch or eat of it. God decided NOT to set angels around that tree, keeping humans from potentially eating of it so they could die. Though after they DID eat of this unprotected tree (unprotected, so as to not deprive humans of their freedom to choose it or not )
they found themselves desperately in need of the tree of life. Then God, not forseeing this (caught by surprise), decided to restrict their freedom to choose to eat of the tree of life and potentially live on forever. Question- Why did God, knowing the potential outcomes of the 2 trees, only restrict humans from the tree of life not the tree that leads to death? If their Creator trusted them to potentially resist the temptation to eat of tree (1) K of G&E forever, why did He take away their potential to learn from their mistake and trust them to obey God from then on, thus making it fine for them to eat of tree (2) and live forever?

Do you not realize, or can you not comprehend that there is nothing that is by chance or random with our Heavenly Father?

God knew from the very moment that he put ink and quill to a heavenly parchment to draft and design the blue prints on creation what there would be going on in this lifetime version of Monopoly.

Does that sound bad? Does that sound sacrilegious to you? No more so then someone saying "But it was God's fault in that He made the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Unless it just grew up there in the middle of the garden before someone came across it, pointed it out to God Who then discovered its potency then had to decide what to do with it. He then God had to make a plan on the spot, telling the humans not to touch or eat of it.

"But it was God's fault in that He made the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

Not fault.... design.

God the Father, maker of the heavens and earth knows all, and knew all, forever as far back as you can comprehend.

Rather then question what God knew I suggest a more interesting study would be why because we really only surmise and while I cannot prove it I personally believe that human life came into existence and is somehow tied to Lucifer and God's issues with him.

Were we given free will. Without a doubt. Does God ever control any of our decisions....? I believe so.... but does not hit you over the head with a cast iron skillet to make you listen.

If you did not have free will then as a child of God and a brother or sister of Jesus and the Holy Spirit living in you you would not ever make a bad choice. But we all do.

 

[Ghada]

God knows.

God didn't allow himself to know where Adam was when he said "Where are you", even though he most certainly knew where he was.

Do you have any Bible verses proving God hides knowledge from Himself? Otherwise you are only speculating.

By your speculation, the Lord didn't know what happened in the garden with the serpent, since He asked Adam if he had sinned.

The context is one of the Lord giving Adam the chance to come forward into the light and come clean by confession with godly sorrow.

But Adam repented not and hardened his heart to God.

The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.

Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

The omniscience of God is to know in the beginning all things that shall come to pass. The Word watches all things as they come to pass, and knows them with God in the beginning.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

God knows.

God didn't allow himself to know where Adam was when he said "Where are you", even though he most certainly knew where he was.

Holy cow. That does not even make sense.

Are you a father? Did you ever have a kid who did something bad ? Did you ever say to your kid...."What have you done?"

Has that hid ever hidden from you knowing they were in trouble?

And did you not always know where your kid was?

Not a bit of sense...

 

[CadyandZoe]

Brotther MG and I are not in a conversation about your question.

What we are discussing is.... "There is no verse in the NT, or in the OT, that states that Jesus KNOWS when He will return.

There IS a verse where Jesus says he doesn't.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What else didn't He know?

Who knows. How can we know what another person knows unless that person explicitly denies knowing something? But since Jesus denied knowing when he would return, we know he wasn't omniscient. Simple logic.