- Sep 12, 2012
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John or Daniel were not looking back in time.
The dream in Daniel 7 happended about 35 years after Daniels' dream of the great statue.
Most interpreters do believe that the vision of Daniel 7 depicts the same empires as of Daniel 2.
Lion
How can this be Babylon when Nebuchadnezzar had already gone mad and restored to the throne? The date this vision occured is the 1st year of Belshazzar who was the last king of Babylon. Daniel sees this beast (lion) rising out of the sea. Babylon had already risen and was toward the end of it's reign. Daniel's prophecy of the lion can't be about Babylon because it was already in existence. This would make Daniel a false prophet and atheist Kyle Williams has caught onto it to debunk the bible and make Daniel a false prophet.
Why would Daniel get a vision about a kingdom that has already risen some years ago and is at the end of it's reign?
It is unlikely that a vision in chapter 7 would be a repetition of Daniel 2. Why would God find it necessary to repeat a vision to the same prophet?
Daniel 2 and 7 are written some 35 years apart and written in Aramaic indicationg it's meant for gentile nations.
I think that this vision is a picture of 4 empires just preceeding the Lords return.
This is with the permission of a good friend who I haven't see since 2003.
Understand something about the word before...
Daniel’s vision has traditionally been interpreted as a progression of world empires culminating in a revived Roman Empire. Following this tradition, Babylon is considered the lion, Persia the bear and Greece the leopard. But the weakness in this interpretation can be seen from a closer look at Daniel 7:7b which reads in the King James Version, "it (the fourth kingdom) was different from all the beasts (kingdoms) that were before it." The Hebrew word for "before" in this text is ‘qodam’ which means "in front of, in the presence of," not "historically before" as is commonly interpreted. This means the first three empires will be in the presence of (or stand before) the antichrist kingdom when it emerges. They will be current and contemporary with the emerging of the final evil empire. In fact, in Revelation 13:2, the first three beasts are essentially incorporated into the final entity, as if it were a global merger of sovereign empires. "And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion."
I would also like to mention that the word fallen doesn't mean to have died. It means to to descend from a higher place to a lower.
To this list I would also like to add Ben Ali the fallen leader of Tunsinia.
Saddam Hussein-------------Iraq
Hosni Mubarak---------------Egypt
Moammar Gadhafi-----------Lybia
Ben Ali--------------------------Tunsinia
Ali Abdullah Saleh------------Yemen
These five have already fallen. I don't know if they are the 5 mentioned in Rev. 17.
_______________________________
Bashar Al-Assad--------------Syria
Ahmadinnijad------------------Iran
King Abdullah------------------Saudi Arabia
Just to name some likely possibilities...some of which have fallen.
Saddam Hussein
Hosni Mubarak
Moammar Gadhafi
Bashar Al-Assad
Ahmadinnijad
Ali Abdullah Saleh
King Abdullah
I don't know where you get that "the word fallen means to descend from a higher place to a lower?" The Greek used is "pipto," and it is used seven times (The number of completion. John uses the number seven 42 times in the book of Revelation, Rev. 2:5, 14;8, 14:8, 17:10, 18:2, 18:2). With the exception of Rev. 2:5 and 17:10 the other five speak about Babylon having "fallen." In Revelations, as you know, "Babylon" is symbolic for the fourth empire of the book of Daniel (Dan 7). The original Babylonian Empire, as you know, fell in the sixth century B.C. to never raise again (exactly as Daniel inferred). So John, in the book of Revelation, can not be speaking of the literal Babylonian Kingdom, which had "fallen" in the sixth-century B.C., but rather, using "Babylon" as a symbol, John is seeing the fourth empire of the Book of Daniel as "fallen" because it is "falling" due its involvement in the invasion of modern Israel, and the upcoming battle of Armageddon against Jesus Christ.
The only other occurrence of "pipto" (fallen) being used in the New Testament is Acts 15:16 "After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen (Greek = pipto) tent..." Obviously James was quoting an eschatological prophecy from the Old Testament Book of Amos "In that day (referring to the end) I will restore David's fallen tent..." (Amos 9:11). Obviously, both Amos and James were talking about "restoring" something which was no more - something which had "fallen." Consequently, one can only assume, then, that John was using the word in the same way - to speak of something which had "fallen," the Caliphate of Islam, and would be restored again with the coming of the sixth king or Caliph.
Richard Neal - author Kingdom of the Antichrist
It's not that difficult.
Rev 17:10-11
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
(KJV)
"five are fallen" = Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Mesopotamia
"one is" = Roman, Domitian in John's days
"and the other is not yet come... he must continue a short space" - the final Antichrist for the great tribulation time
"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and of the seven, and goeth into perdition" = Satan, when he is released one more time at the end of Christ's future thousand years reign.
ANYTIME... you see God's Word referring to one like that king that goes into 'perdition', that means Satan. The reason is that only he and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perdition into the future lake of fire. No flesh man, not even any of the previous beast kings like Nebuchadnezzar have been judged yet. The reason why Satan is "of the seven" previous kings is because he's been the one behind them in attempt to establish his kingdom over all the earth.
How is "Mesopotamia" a kingdom?
Richard Neal - author Kingdom of the Antichrist