Faith: True and False
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I made different points in the OP.
I'm assuming we're referring only to the James 2 portion.
So, you would say that James teaches "faith alone"--that James refers to "true" and "false" faith?
To clarify, again, my OP says the opposite of that--that James teaches "faith and works" justifies, and that he does not address "true" and "false" faith, but that those who have faith must also do good works (by God's grace, not by the Law) to be justified.
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Johann
Well-Known Member
Right here I am in agreement WITH you. And some will call me a "works" salvationist.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
having been created ἐν en|G1722|Prep|in Χριστῷ Christō|G5547|N-DMS|Christ Ἰησοῦ Iēsou|G2424|N-DMS|Jesus ἐπὶ epi|G1909|Prep|for ἔργοις ergois|G2041|N-DNP|works ἀγαθοῖς, agathois|G18|Adj-DNP|good, οἷς hois.
Unto good works.—Properly, on the basis (or, condition) of good works (as in Gal_5:13; 1Th_4:17; 2Ti_2:14). The good works, in themselves future, being (as the next clause shows) contemplated as already existent in God’s foreknowledge, and as an inseparable characteristic of the regenerate life.
J.
OK, so do you see why I was asking for clarification? LOL
It's obvious that James is teaching that both the ongoing justification in the present and the eschatological justification (eg, Romans 2) are by both faith and completing faith by walking in faith, and that this is directed at a Christian audience to make them repent and live holy lives (eg, he calls them "adulteresses against God"--that means they're "married" to God--so James obviously knows he's talking to Christians (people who proponents of the "'true' and 'false' faith" explanation of James 2 would say have "true" faith)).
Johann
Well-Known Member
Sorry-you say a whole lot of things-but actually nothing.
ONGOING justification? Eschatological justification? You know what a Perfect Tense is in Greek and Hebrew Grammar?
What about sanctification and salvation? My advice-get a basic Greek and Hebrew grammar and get yourself acquainted with the morphologies-you have Bible Hub-learn there or get a software program in basic Hebrew and Koine Greek grammar.
You have a lot to learn-so keep on laughing with your wailing emojis-I just showed my brother in Christ your post on ongoing and eschatological justification-wouldn't want to tell you what he said, the look on his face said it all.
Thanks
J.
LOL
It's not really where I wanted the discussion to go (I moreso wanted to discuss "true" and "false" faith as presented in John's Gospel), plus it seems like you're very confused (maybe you have diabetes, and your blood sugar spikes are ruining your concentration), so I'll not go further into the details.
Anyway, thanks.
You can dish it, but you can't take it.
You complained when I showed you the conclusions I believed your view would of necessity be leading to, yet you did the same here and saw no issue with it.
Faith is a gift from God...a manifestation of the Spirit
Intellectual faith ( human faith) is no faith at all......you need to be Born Again , God given Faith is Alive and Active in a Born Again.
Human faith/ belief is dead...just intellectual knowledge,( their own human knowledge and understanding of God’s word)....we need spiritual knowledge/ understanding, that can only come from the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:7-11 lists a number of spiritual gifts, including the gift of faith: “To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit …”
The gift of faith enables some people to have an extraordinary amount of faith that God uses to show us His power in ways that create joy and encouragement for others. We might see someone with the gift of faith as a superior Christian, but that is far from the truth.
Take a look at the men and women in Hebrews 11. Noah’s faith was an example to his family (who helped build the ark) and ultimately saved humanity from dying out in the flood.
Joshua’s obedience in marching around Jericho showed his men what bold faith looked like, in turn putting God’s faithfulness, power and protection on display for his people and their enemies.
Intellectual faith ( human faith) is no faith at all......you need to be Born Again , God given Faith is Alive and Active in a Born Again.
Human faith/ belief is dead...just intellectual knowledge,( their own human knowledge and understanding of God’s word)....we need spiritual knowledge/ understanding, that can only come from the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:7-11 lists a number of spiritual gifts, including the gift of faith: “To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit …”
The gift of faith enables some people to have an extraordinary amount of faith that God uses to show us His power in ways that create joy and encouragement for others. We might see someone with the gift of faith as a superior Christian, but that is far from the truth.
What The Spiritual Gift of Faith Is
Throughout the Bible, we see people demonstrate supernatural confidence in God’s promises, power, and presence. Their faith equips people to take outlandishly heroic stands for the future of God’s work in the church.Take a look at the men and women in Hebrews 11. Noah’s faith was an example to his family (who helped build the ark) and ultimately saved humanity from dying out in the flood.
Joshua’s obedience in marching around Jericho showed his men what bold faith looked like, in turn putting God’s faithfulness, power and protection on display for his people and their enemies.
Through faith, Moses charged bravely into many situations that should have led to death. Every time he dared to step forward on nothing but God’s promise of protection, miracles ensued. Not only did he eventually lead the entire population of Israel to freedom, he showed the power of God to thousands of Egyptians as well.
How can anyone have faith in God, without knowing him, via his Holy Spirit?
You can believe, you do well, even the demons believe..much more to it than that...
You can believe, you do well, even the demons believe..much more to it than that...
| Audio Crossref Comment Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. New Living Translation You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. English Standard Version You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Berean Standard Bible You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. |
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Wow. None of you here actually know what faith is. Because none of you can read the symboligy of the Bible. Unbelievable.
It has nothing to do with belief.
It has nothing to do with belief.
Back it up with scripture then, before you accuse the brethren?
What a nonsensical post.
No it's not nonsensical. It's true. Everyone here thinks faith is a form of belief. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Not you love..you can’t teach anything.
Only God via his Spirit can speak to a Born Again.
I ask once again...back it up with Gods word, that none of us here know what faith is?
Not your opinion.
If you keep posting your opinions ,which are unedifying, then I will report your posts.
I ask you ,back up what you claim using scripture?
This is a discussion thread, not an opinion thread.
Ok well before I just copy and past scripture I'll let you know I'll be using the instance where Jesus Walks On Water. I don't need to past that story here, everyone should know it.
The main symbol of this story is water. If you dont understand the symboligy of water you will never understand what it means to walk on it (no its not litteral, what would that teach us).
Water is a symbol of death, and in this case, spiritual death or deathly feelings within our psyche. This is why when we get baptised, we go in the water, then out of it to symbolise the death of the old life and the birth of the new. Under water symbolizing the death, coming out of the water symbolizing new life or birth.
Have you ever wondered why we cry water when we experience loss or death? Hmm...
Think about some sayings like, "I'm drowning with sorrow", "im feelung blue", "I'm just trying to keep my head above the water". These are all references to depression, grief, shame, guilt etc. This is what is known as spiritual death, or... feeling self conscious.
"Let the dead bury the dead" - Matt 8:22
Meaning... those who are greaved should bury the person they are greaving for.
When we sin we suffer the consequence of God's judgment, so, like in the garden of eden...
"Adam and Eve will surely taste death"... or whatever it said.
This means that at some stage after sin we will experience the consequences of remorse and repentance. Spiritual death.
Now... imagine you are dancing in front of 100's of people... humiliating right? Now imagine what it feels like to conquer those fears and transcend your self-consiousness. Being able to fully let go and dance around like you where a kid again. This is faith. It has nothing to do with belief and has everything to do with LETTING GO. Who knows, maybe one day we will need to let go of some of these beliefs that we hold?
Faith is also about letting go of things we cannot control. It is a spiritual thing, not a construct in our mind (like belief).
Another good example is when Jesus turns the water into wine. This, like most of the stories in the bible, symbolises resserection. From water to wine, from death to life, FROM SHAME TO GLORY!
God bless.
Living water? Hmm....
I said it wasn't my opinion. Stop reading what you want to read, and read what I'm writing.... and I gave you your answer above.
It was your opinion, now you have just posted something from the internet.
We all post opinion..it needs to be backed up by Gods word.
- Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it isthe gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
- John 6:44
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
- 1 Corinthians 1:26-29
For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence.
- John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
- Romans 9:13
As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated."
- Romans 9:15-16
For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion." So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
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