Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?

[St. SteVen]

The Bible is clear as to whether there will be people who will be completely eliminated from existence forever.

That is only ONE view of the final judgment. One of three.

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[St. SteVen]

New topic.

Commanded to love God more than we love ourselves?

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[ElieG12]

God's justice consists of paying each person according to their actions, whether they are good or evil. Treating well evil people who hurt good people is not justice. God's love becomes stronger with his justice, because if he loves good people, he cannot allow people who harm them to continue living.

Rom. 2:5 But according to your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and of the revealing of God’s righteous judgment. 6 And he will pay back to each one according to his works: 7 everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and incorruptibleness by endurance in work that is good; 8 however, for those who are contentious and who disobey the truth but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and anger.

We know these things because the Bible teaches them, not because we want them to be that way. The desire for evil people to continue existing is just that: a desire for them to stay alive despite their own evils, or a misconception of what God's love means, and what it is not.

Eze. 33:18 “When someone righteous abandons his righteousness and does what is wrong, he must die for it. 19 But when someone wicked turns away from his wickedness and does what is just and righteous, he will keep living for doing so.

 

[St. SteVen]

The Bible is clear as to whether there will be people who will be completely eliminated from existence forever.

Is that all the Bible has to say about the subject?
You claim is rather slanted to one view. What about the other views? Are they unclear?

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[Eternally Grateful]

If Jesus has all your sin, then what you do that use to be defined by the Law (that has no authority over you anymore), can't define you or your deeds, as sinner or sin.
This is why Paul refers to all that as "works of the flesh".
See..
Only the Law can define your carnality as SIN, and you as a sinner.
So, when you are "not under the law, but under Grace", you exit here..

A.) ""Where there is no LAW, there is no Transgression"..

So, the OSAS Heretics, who, many of them are not even born again, can't see this truth regarding what it means to have become "in Christ" where the Law of Moses does not exist.

Here is the Christian....

= "As CHRIST IS.... so are the born again......IN THIS World".

So, does CHRIST have sin?
He left yours in the Grave, and came out of the Grave.
Its ALL gone.

And the born again, are "IN CHRIST"< and there is no LAW there, and NO SIN.

And the Christian says..........."but what i if do something wrong, or bad". "again". and "again".

And the Christian says...."What if i binge on Netflix, or watch Game of Thrones and enjoy the Rape and Sex for 7 yrs while it was on once a week"

Then you will reap what you have sown in your own body and spirituality...., but you will not be judged to be a sinner, because there is no LAW to judge you, if you are born again.

The born again are "not under the LAW...but under GRACE"..

And God's Grace never judges you as anything but "blood bought", "redeemed by the blood of the Lamb" and have become a "new Creation in Christ"..... if you are truly Born..again.

Welcome To : SALVATiON
Its a "GIFT".

OSAS heretics, can you explain?

 

[St. SteVen]

God's justice consists of paying each person according to their actions, whether they are good or evil. Treating well evil people who hurt good people is not justice. God's love becomes stronger with his justice, because if he loves good people, he cannot allow people who harm them to continue living.

Jesus taught us that it is godly behavior to love our enemies. (Matthew 5:43-48)
What should God do with his enemies?
Does God operate under a lower standard than he holds us to?

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[Eternally Grateful]

The party line? Like it is not yours? Doesn't it say Christian below your name? So how could we have different lines and both be of the faith?

124 verses supporting OSAS? Huh. Alright, riddle me this, A question about
Revelation 3:14-16
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.../KJV

If everyone has OSAS security no matter what like you seem to be implying, then who in the world is He talking to here? And what does spue you out of my mouth mean? Do they lose thier salvation because they were lukewarm christians?

If OSAS is true then what the heck does that mean? So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth” (Revelation 3:15-16). With these words, Jesus gave both a frightening threat and an appeal. And though it was originally directed to one group of believers, the principle behind it applies to every Christian.

First,

Rev 3 is speaking of a church,. in a particular city. Not individuals within that church.

A church, as God said, is the lampstand.. It is used by God to be a light to draw people from Darkness.

His warning is if the church does not repent. He will remove IT's Lampstand.. (he will no longer consider it a church)

It has nothign to do with induviduals in that church.

A great OT example is Jerusalem, when Babylon destroyed it.. He destroyed the city and temple. But not everyone in that house was lost (think Daniel and his freinds, also the prophet that stayed in Jerusalem speaking for God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not every Christian believes there are no contradictions in the Bible. Nor is it a requirement.

As for the rest of your post, I understand that there are two biblical views on this subject.
So there's no need to argue about it.

/

There are no contradictions.

Contradictions are made by interpretational differences, or scribal error..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's because the Pharisees made a law unto themselves,and thought they were empowered as law keepers.

We do nothing to save ourselves. Salvation is an irrevocable choice of God,and his gift through grace.

Those who don't agree with what is called OSAA, don't understand it. They also do t understand the status of a Christian,those in Christ. Even though God spells it our precisely in his word.

Our eternal irrevocable Salvation is not sustained by man's consensus.

It is of God. And when God gives us his gift he can certainly insure it holds for as long as he said it would. Because God knew us before the womb. He called us. He knew what he was doing before the creation of the world.

I have come to hate the term OSAS.. I prefer to call it eternal security.. But I agree here.. They do not understand it

 

[ElieG12]

God's justice consists of paying each person according to their actions, whether they are good or evil. Treating well evil people who hurt good people is not justice. God's love becomes stronger with his justice, because if he loves good people, he cannot allow people who harm them to continue living.

Rom. 2:5 But according to your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and of the revealing of God’s righteous judgment. 6 And he will pay back to each one according to his works: 7 everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and incorruptibleness by endurance in work that is good; 8 however, for those who are contentious and who disobey the truth but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and anger.

We know these things because the Bible teaches them, not because we want them to be that way. The desire for evil people to continue existing is just that: a desire for them to stay alive despite their own evils, or a misconception of what God's love means, and what it is not.

Eze. 33:18 “When someone righteous abandons his righteousness and does what is wrong, he must die for it. 19 But when someone wicked turns away from his wickedness and does what is just and righteous, he will keep living for doing so.

Read the Scriptures. I don't need to speculate about what is God's justice because the Bible says how it operates.

God doesn't need teologians points of view to adapt His justice to theirs; the only idea is laughable.

Is. 55:6 Search for Jehovah while he may be found.
Call to him while he is near.
7 Let the wicked man leave his way
And the evil man his thoughts;
Let him return to Jehovah, who will have mercy on him,
To our God, for he will forgive in a large way.
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
And your ways are not my ways,” declares Jehovah.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So my ways are higher than your ways
And my thoughts than your thoughts.
10 For just as the rain and the snow pour down from heaven
And do not return there until they saturate the earth, making it produce and sprout,
Giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater,
11 So my word that goes out of my mouth will be.
It will not return to me without results,
But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight,
And it will have sure success in what I send it to do.

Theologians and their theologies ... what a waste of time!
Isn't it what God thinks that we should worry about?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The Bible is clear as to whether there will be people who will be completely eliminated from existence forever.

Eternal destruction does not mean cease to exist... it means living in a state of destruction for eternity.

Bible Verses about Hell Is Everlasting

Matthew 25:46
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life

Mark 9:47-48
If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell, where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever

Revelation 20:14
Then death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I have come to hate the term OSAS.. I prefer to call it eternal security.. But I agree here.. They do not understand it

OSAS is the reality of the Gospel. However,OSAS was a term invented to assail the Gospel.

If someone reads the New Testament then the common argument against eternal salvation, it is a license to sin with impunity, is nullified.

 

[St. SteVen]

OSAS was a term invented to assail the Gospel.

As I understand it OSAS was coined as a derogatory term against Eternal Security.
But it has unfortunately become synonymous with Eternal Security.
And challenged on the basis you mention.

The anti-OSAS position declares that salvation can be lost for the slightest infraction.
Which creates a fear-based relationship with Father God.

/

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If someone reads the New Testament then the common argument against eternal salvation, it is a license to sin with impunity, is nullified.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

The anti-OSAS position declares that salvation can be lost for the slightest infraction.
Which creates a fear-based relationship with Father God.

What the OSAS peoples won't tell you because they don't accept the validity of this is... God is NOT mocked... whatsoever a man sows, that shall He also reap he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. (Galatians 6:7-8)

They'll agree that when one is born again they did sow to the spirit and reaped life... but then they deny and ignore the rest of Galatians 6:7-8 claiming if one sows to the flesh (sins) they do not rep corruption.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

And did you know we are supposed to fear God? Fear Him enough to NOT do sinful behavior because if we do, we reap corruption.

Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

 

[MA2444]

The anti-OSAS position declares that salvation can be lost for the slightest infraction.
Which creates a fear-based relationship with Father God.

Nobody said for the slightest infraction. His blood will cover a multitude of sins! (If we return to the Lord and ask forgiveness.

And scripture does say that the beginning of Wisdom is the fear of the Lord and that we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, so there's there's that.

But what you still don't seem to be getting is that the presence of the Holy Spirit brings the assurance to the believer that they belong to God and have salvation.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Nobody said for the slightest infraction. His blood will cover a multitude of sins! (If we return to the Lord and ask forgiveness.

That implies we are separated from God and lost again unless we repent and ask forgiveness again and again as we sin.

 

[MA2444]

That implies we are separated from God and lost again unless we repent and ask forgiveness again and again as we sin.

Yes, I do believe that is the truth. When christians sin they turn their back to God and choose to sin. If they repent of their sin and ask forgiveness continually when they sin, then they learn and grow spiritually. King David committed Adultery and Murder but did not run from the Lord. He (Psalm 51) returned to God and repented of his sins. God's response to that was, David is a man after God's own heart.

But if he did not repent for his sins and died without reconciling with the Lord, is he then condemned? He turned his back on the Lord. So I believe that's it's a good bet that he very well could be condemned if he dies without reconciliation. Dies in his sins. Plenty of warnings in scripture about being blotted out from the book of Life, spit out of Jesus's mouth, and on and on. Better to not take that chance and ask forgiveness, in some applied Wisdom of the Lord.

The Lord's blood and love for us covers a multitude of sins, right? So it's better to play it safe and ask for forgiveness and cling to the Lord. And Ye Have Not Because Ye Ask not...?

Makes sense to me. (I sure wouldnt want to be one of the ones that Jesus says, begone with you for I never knew you!) (Yikes!)

 

[BlessedPeace]

Yes, I do believe that is the truth. When christians sin they turn their back to God and choose to sin. If they repent of their sin and ask forgiveness continually when they sin, then they learn and grow spiritually. King David committed Adultery and Murder but did not run from the Lord. He (Psalm 51) returned to God and repented of his sins. God's response to that was, David is a man after God's own heart.

But if he did not repent for his sins and died without reconciling with the Lord, is he then condemned? He turned his back on the Lord. So I believe that's it's a good bet that he very well could be condemned if he dies without reconciliation. Dies in his sins. Plenty of warnings in scripture about being blotted out from the book of Life, spit out of Jesus's mouth, and on and on. Better to not take that chance and ask forgiveness, in some applied Wisdom of the Lord.

The Lord's blood and love for us covers a multitude of sins, right? So it's better to play it safe and ask for forgiveness and cling to the Lord. And Ye Have Not Because Ye Ask not...?

Makes sense to me. (I sure wouldnt want to be one of the ones that Jesus says, begone with you for I never knew you!) (Yikes!)

Reminds me of Pascal's wager.

 

[MA2444]

Reminds me of Pascal's wager.

It sure does. It's a life and death struggle and is a huge risk for people to take. If God does really exist. So we must endeavor to choose to believe wisely because we can flee to a different country and the Lord is there. If we make or bed in Sheol, Behold, the Lord is there...!!