Rich R
Well-Known Member
I looked through the whole thread and was surprised not to see a few verses from Romans, Corinthians, and Thessalonians that are very relevant to the discussion.
It should be noted that these three books are specifically written to born again Christians. Paul is explaining what will happen to them. Revelation tells us what will happen to the Jews and Gentiles. It's a rather stark contrast.
1 Thess 4:14-17,
First of all, these verses do not mention a resurrection, raising someone from the dead. Christians are said to be "asleep." We were crucified with Christ and were given new life at the day of Pentecost (Col 2:12, et. al.) In other words, Christians have already experienced death and were resurrected when Jesus was resurrected. I'll be the first to admit that it's a lot to comprehend, but that's what it says.
These verses also say we will meet the Jesus in the air. At this point he has not come down to earth. That alone shows a huge distinction with both resurrections in Revelation where Jesus is judging after he comes to the earth.
1 Cor 15:51-53,
Rom 5:9,
Not that I'm not immune from error what it comes to the scriptures (who isn't?), but I think a lot of doctrinal error regarding the end times (as well as other times) comes from mixing up Jews, Gentiles, and Christians. God has very different plans for each.
It should be noted that these three books are specifically written to born again Christians. Paul is explaining what will happen to them. Revelation tells us what will happen to the Jews and Gentiles. It's a rather stark contrast.
1 Thess 4:14-17,
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
First of all, these verses do not mention a resurrection, raising someone from the dead. Christians are said to be "asleep." We were crucified with Christ and were given new life at the day of Pentecost (Col 2:12, et. al.) In other words, Christians have already experienced death and were resurrected when Jesus was resurrected. I'll be the first to admit that it's a lot to comprehend, but that's what it says.
These verses also say we will meet the Jesus in the air. At this point he has not come down to earth. That alone shows a huge distinction with both resurrections in Revelation where Jesus is judging after he comes to the earth.
1 Cor 15:51-53,
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.
This sounds like nothing in Revelation. It's not a judgment at all. Also, like Thessalonians, there is nothing about a resurrection. The Greek word "raised" in v 52 is not the same as the word "resurrection" used in Revelation.Rom 5:9,
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Christians are saved from the coming wrath. The resurrections in Revelation occur after the wrath.Not that I'm not immune from error what it comes to the scriptures (who isn't?), but I think a lot of doctrinal error regarding the end times (as well as other times) comes from mixing up Jews, Gentiles, and Christians. God has very different plans for each.